Russian unbuilt combat helicopter projects

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,086
Reaction score
258
Hello,

There is already a thread for the V-60 and the Mi-22 and Mi-36 are mentioned in passing in a couple of threads but I thought we could do with a central location for:

The first competition:
- Mi-22
- Mi-24 (single engined)
- Ka-25F

Kamov
- V-50
- V-60 (and undesignated variants)
- V-100

Mil
- Mi-36
- Mi-40
- Mi-42

And possibly unknown facets of transport and gunship derivatives (not so secret):
- Mi-8
- Ka-29
- Mi-2US/URP
- Mi-24 door gunners or field mods
 

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,086
Reaction score
258
Kamov models From www.aviation.ru

1. Civil (except for the flying recon turret):
2. V-50 high speed assault helicopter:
3. Heavy transports:
4. Kamov V-100
5. An interesting plate

The last image contains the V-80 (as everyone will recognise), the larger helicopter is probably the Ka-25F, in the front on the right may be a light version of the V-60 (competitor to the Mi-36 before their specifications diverged) and the one on the upper left is currently unknown (to me at least). A bit of a mystery.
 

Attachments

  • Kamov_projects.2.jpg
    Kamov_projects.2.jpg
    65 KB · Views: 1,734
  • Kamov_projects.1.jpg
    Kamov_projects.1.jpg
    58.9 KB · Views: 1,637
  • Kamov_projects.3.jpg
    Kamov_projects.3.jpg
    56.3 KB · Views: 1,613
  • Kamov_projects.4.jpg
    Kamov_projects.4.jpg
    58.1 KB · Views: 1,569
  • Kamov_projects.jpg
    Kamov_projects.jpg
    73.9 KB · Views: 1,664

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,086
Reaction score
258
Some specs to be translated/machine translated and then groomed (I will do this if I have time):
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_rus/kamov.html
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_rus/mil.html
 

borovik

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
793
Reaction score
174
Avimimus said:
... the one on the upper left is currently unknown (to me at least). A bit of a mystery.
two-seat combat helicopter mock-up constructed in 1975-1976 at the early stage of V-80 preliminary design.
source: A.Mazepov "Ka-50", Polygon 1997
 

Attachments

  • Ka  V-80 1975-76.jpg
    Ka V-80 1975-76.jpg
    25.7 KB · Views: 557

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,086
Reaction score
258
Thank you! I have been wondering about it for years now! :) I take it then, that the V-100 was a two seat as well?

Also what types of cannon were planned (is it a Gsh-23L, Gsh-301 or 2a42)?
 

borovik

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
793
Reaction score
174
Like as on Ka-25Ф(фронтовой/the battlefield) - GSh-23 , only there stood ganged installation, twin-barrel rotating cannon. GSh-30-1 ,appeared only in 1979, but "tank" cannon 2А42 was studied for late version V-80.
 

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,086
Reaction score
258
Thank you! ;D This is exciting!

More questions (if you know the answers):
- what was the estimated weight of the initial V-80 studies?
- what was the anti-tank payload planned for the V-80 (The V-100 could easily of carried the standard Su-25 Rook armament but the V-80 has only two hardpoints)?
- what was the type of gun armament considered for the V-100?
- where were the hardpoints located on the Mil Mi-36 and Mi-40?

S!
 

borovik

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
793
Reaction score
174
- Supposable : empty weight before 4000кg ,loaded weight before 6500кg.
- OKB Kamov’s has chosen latest sample Vikhr (AT-9)/Typhon/ ,capable to strike little dimensioned rolling purposes on range before 10 km.
If we consider early V-80(1975), that certainly he loses alternative V-100 with transverse scheme.
But about late V-80, work on which have begun at January 1977 were already other machine...(see second drawing)
- On V-100 was planned install 2 x GSh-23 (AO-9 one barrels version) on one with each board or still AO-10 (TKB-645) future GSh-30. (on many drawing V-100 with H-25ML or H-25MP) )-rocket against large stationary target.
- Reliable information on Mi-36 and Mi-40 I have no.
1) Intermediate model of the first single-seat attack helicopter variant with self-adjusting wing and unmovable cannon.
2) V-80 (1977)
Source:”Ka-50” A.Mazepov
“Ka-50 Verwolf’ S.Moroz AviO 3
“OKB N.I. Kamov’s”
 

Attachments

  • Ka V-80 (8) 1976.jpg
    Ka V-80 (8) 1976.jpg
    30.4 KB · Views: 698
  • Ka V-80.jpg
    Ka V-80.jpg
    90.1 KB · Views: 1,053

Avimimus

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
2,086
Reaction score
258
Thanks,

I just noticed something neat: Borovik, the model, as well as the drawing, in your last post both have two pairs of stub wings (four wings in total)!

SmithW6079, it is an interesting airplane isn't it? The only data I have give it a 3000kg weapon load and a speed in the +-400kph range. It is nice to have finally found out the cannon armament (I had been imagining two Yak-b or Gsh-G). I will attempt to machine translate the Mil paper project articles from that website soon.
 

Matej

Multiuniversal creator
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
2,610
Reaction score
212
Website
www.hitechweb.genezis.eu
Avimimus said:
I just noticed something neat: Borovik, the model, as well as the drawing, in your last post both have two pairs of stub wings (four wings in total)!

Only the upper can be defined as "wing" or better to say "canard" - so it has some positive aerodynamic effect on flight. The second pair is only a storage facility for the weapos as is for example on AH-64.
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,715
Reaction score
1,057
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
The model of the Kamov V-100 intrigued me because it looks pretty cool.

In the mid-70s Kamov developed a project of the V- 100 combat helicopter which featured a number of unique technological solutions. The V-100 was an advanced heavy attack helicopter project by Kamov from the early 1980s. The V-100 design had rotors on the tips of a wing, and a pusher propeller to exceed the speed of 400km/h. The helicopter was to be armed with 3000kg of bombs and rockets, two machine-guns and two anti-ship or anti-radar missiles. The project is believed to be abandoned
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/v-100.htm
 

Attachments

  • V-100_1.jpg
    V-100_1.jpg
    78.1 KB · Views: 292
  • V-100_2.jpg
    V-100_2.jpg
    24.8 KB · Views: 289

frank

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
617
Reaction score
22
Hmm. Seeing this pic reminds me of a blurb I recall reading in Rotor & Wing mag, or maybe Defence Helicopter News(?) in the mid '80s. It mentioned the Kamov Hokum design & stated that it may be similar in design to the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne. This one makes me think of the AH-56.



borovik said:
Avimimus said:
... the one on the upper left is currently unknown (to me at least). A bit of a mystery.
On cause interesting You models - this is two-set combat helicopter mock-up constructed in 1975-1976
at the stage of V - 80 preliminary design.(early iteration of V - 80/Ka-50)
source: A.Mazepov "Ka-50" Polygon 1997
 

Lauge

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
434
Reaction score
20
borovik said:
.....GSh-23 , only there stood ganged installation, twin-barrel rotating cannon.

Maybe off-topic, but in the interest of technical correctness, the GSh-23 doesn't rotate. This as opposed to gatling type weapons such as the US M61 and GAU-8 and the Russian GSh-6-30 and GSh-23-6, where a number of barrels (usually between 3 and 6) do indeed rotate around a common axis. Often referred to incorrectly as a "chain gun".

The GSh-23, on the gripping hand, is a twin-barrel weapon using the "Gast" principle invented by a German named, you guessed it, Gast (first name Karl) in 1916.

In a gast-type gun, the energy from firing one barrel is used to power the reloading cycle of the other. It gives you a high rate-of-fire for it's size and mass (gatling-type guns give higher RoF, but take up considerably more space and mass) and doesn't need external power, like some gatling type weapons.

Patent drawings are at http://www.google.com/patents?id=Ox5uAAAAEBAJ

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

borovik

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
793
Reaction score
174
Lauge, thanks for the correction. Avimimus sorry. (That is what causes a rush and did not know the language :-[)
Thanks again Thomas
 

Attachments

  • GSh-6-23.jpg
    GSh-6-23.jpg
    248.1 KB · Views: 988
  • GSh-23.jpg
    GSh-23.jpg
    53.5 KB · Views: 1,052

Matej

Multiuniversal creator
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
2,610
Reaction score
212
Website
www.hitechweb.genezis.eu
Found nice reconstruction of the Mi-42
(c) Oleg Pomoshnikov, www.gunpoint-3d.com
 

Attachments

  • 20081005_2a3c8cfbf8bfca691ee3q6aOp8ynZ7Yc.jpg
    20081005_2a3c8cfbf8bfca691ee3q6aOp8ynZ7Yc.jpg
    48.6 KB · Views: 999
  • 20081005_6c11c1dcb2ca87297eb98j3zwPr09tYt.jpg
    20081005_6c11c1dcb2ca87297eb98j3zwPr09tYt.jpg
    39.9 KB · Views: 1,029
  • 20081005_c5872b93afd91b23923aYF9FEyEcsV81.jpg
    20081005_c5872b93afd91b23923aYF9FEyEcsV81.jpg
    43.1 KB · Views: 1,031

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,715
Reaction score
1,057
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Three-view drawing of Mil Mi-42.
Source: 50 years of Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant, V.R.Mikheev
 

Attachments

  • mi42.gif
    mi42.gif
    14.2 KB · Views: 249

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,949
Reaction score
519
That Mi-42 is one of the nicest looking helicopters I've ever seen. I had never heard of it until now. Thanks for posting the info. I'm tempted to buy that 3D model and make it compatible with MS Flight Simulator.
 

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,650
Mi-40 was intriging on this side of the pond, not from an aerodynamic point of view, but from the number of works that called it a Helicopter Infantry Fighting Vehicle. Generated some interesting discussions on the use of the platform.
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,305
Reaction score
1,887
in-house Mi-40 scetch
 

Attachments

  • Mi-40.jpg
    Mi-40.jpg
    267.6 KB · Views: 302

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,715
Reaction score
1,057
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Model of Kamov V-100.

Source:
http://www.vertopedia.ru/items/show/418
 

Attachments

  • 12687689002.jpg
    12687689002.jpg
    63.4 KB · Views: 166
  • 12687688991.jpg
    12687688991.jpg
    63.2 KB · Views: 187

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
698
The Mil single engine V-24 mock-ups!

Regards
Pioneer
 

Attachments

  • Early Mil V-24 mockup, which would be developed further into the Mi-24 Hind.jpg
    Early Mil V-24 mockup, which would be developed further into the Mi-24 Hind.jpg
    46.8 KB · Views: 202
  • Mock-up of the Mil V-24.jpg
    Mock-up of the Mil V-24.jpg
    25.2 KB · Views: 233
  • Profile drawings of the early Mil Mi-24 'Hind' series.png
    Profile drawings of the early Mil Mi-24 'Hind' series.png
    183 KB · Views: 494

jsport

what do you know about surfing Major? you're from-
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
3,767
Reaction score
1,439
Pioneer said:
The Mil single engine V-24 mock-ups!

Regards
Pioneer
wow, this posting blows me away.. muchos gracias..many answered questions...
 

Stingray

Resident retro rainbow rotorhead nerdy girl, uwu
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
414
Reaction score
120
Website
sites.google.com
I drew that last picture with the variant profiles for Wikipedia. I'm not sure if they are 100% accurate, however. The Mi-24BMT is still obviously quite a mystery to me. :eek:
 

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
698
Stingray™ said:
I drew that last picture with the variant profiles for Wikipedia. I'm not sure if they are 100% accurate, however. The Mi-24BMT is still obviously quite a mystery to me. :eek:

I'm sorry Stingray!!! I had that drawing on my hard drive, which I had saved from an email a mate sent me a while ago. I didn't know its source :-[
Full credit to you for your time and talent!!!

Regards
Pioneer
 

Stingray

Resident retro rainbow rotorhead nerdy girl, uwu
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
414
Reaction score
120
Website
sites.google.com
No worries! I'm actually very happy to see my rotary-related work spread around like this. Thanks for posting it. ;)


I have another set of profiles for the later Mi-24 series, but I've yet to update it like I have with the above early series one. Maybe one day I'll overcome lazyness and get around to it.
 

mil

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
140
Reaction score
76
one of the first versions of the Mi-24 in 1967
 

Attachments

  • 222222222.png
    222222222.png
    137.2 KB · Views: 324

mil

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
140
Reaction score
76
Preparations for the establishment of military single-engine helicopter Mi-22-armor. A comparison of the location of the cabin armored storm-
vetch IL-2 since World War II and the helicopter. 1965
 

Attachments

  • 1111111.png
    1111111.png
    59.2 KB · Views: 1,225

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,161
Reaction score
698
Nice find Mil regarding 'early version of Mi-24 in 1967'
Does it have an official designation?
It looks somewhat smaller than the 'standard' Hind (going by the size of troops in the troop compartment)
A different turreted gun arrangement?
Is there more drawings??

Regards
Pioneer
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,563
Reaction score
6,307
Do you mean this Mil Mi-22 project ?.


http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mi-22.php
 

Attachments

  • MI-22.jpg
    MI-22.jpg
    28.1 KB · Views: 1,187

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,305
Reaction score
1,887
...
 

Attachments

  • Mi-24gen07.jpg
    Mi-24gen07.jpg
    41.6 KB · Views: 254
  • Mi-24gen06.jpg
    Mi-24gen06.jpg
    56.9 KB · Views: 198
  • Mi-24gen05.jpg
    Mi-24gen05.jpg
    55.6 KB · Views: 223
  • Mi-24gen04a.jpg
    Mi-24gen04a.jpg
    41.2 KB · Views: 228
  • Mi-24gen04.jpg
    Mi-24gen04.jpg
    48.9 KB · Views: 208
  • Mi-24gen03.jpg
    Mi-24gen03.jpg
    39 KB · Views: 1,083
  • Mi-24gen02.jpg
    Mi-24gen02.jpg
    35.9 KB · Views: 1,104
  • Mi-24gen01.jpg
    Mi-24gen01.jpg
    37.4 KB · Views: 1,138

stashandr

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
55
Reaction score
14
Hi to all,
does anybody know, when Kamov V-50 was designed?
I've heard two versions - in 1967-69 years (by Erlikh) and in 80th (Ka-29 successor).
 

borovik

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
793
Reaction score
174
In 1969 he was proposed a project of a combat helicopter V-50 (with longitudinal two main rotors)
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,563
Reaction score
6,307
borovik said:
В 1969 году он был предложен проект боевого вертолета V-50 (с продольными двух несущих винтов)


What is that meaning my dear Borovik ?.
 

stashandr

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
55
Reaction score
14
It means that the first version is right.

But why does this model have "ВМФ" (the Soviet Navy) designation?
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,221
Reaction score
862
stashandr said:
Hi to all,
does anybody know, when Kamov V-50 was designed?
I've heard two versions - in 1967-69 years (by Erlikh) and in 80th (Ka-29 successor).

This seems to be a recurrent question on various forums. Perhaps even asked by the same people?

Allow me to speculate here that the answer may not be as clearcut as borovik and others suggest.

A close look at the pictures we have of the V-50 show two distinct models: the long passenger transport with circular fuselage section, downward canted fins and elevators that has a turret underneath the forward fuselage is an older model, quite possibly the late 1960s version of the design. However, the shorter variant has a squared-off fuselage section, armament racks under small wings a la Mi-24, and a heavily redesigned rear end, and this could very well have been a 1980s rework of the same basic concept, hence the two dates in circulation.
 

Attachments

  • V-50 comparison.jpg
    V-50 comparison.jpg
    119.8 KB · Views: 237

mil

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
140
Reaction score
76
The first version of the V50 (Designer Ehrlich)
 

Attachments

  • ?-50-.jpg
    ?-50-.jpg
    45.8 KB · Views: 175
  • ?-50-1.jpg
    ?-50-1.jpg
    17.8 KB · Views: 195

Similar threads

Top