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Russian unbuilt combat helicopter projects

Avimimus

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Hello,

There is already a thread for the V-60 and the Mi-22 and Mi-36 are mentioned in passing in a couple of threads but I thought we could do with a central location for:

The first competition:
- Mi-22
- Mi-24 (single engined)
- Ka-25F

Kamov
- V-50
- V-60 (and undesignated variants)
- V-100

Mil
- Mi-36
- Mi-40
- Mi-42

And possibly unknown facets of transport and gunship derivatives (not so secret):
- Mi-8
- Ka-29
- Mi-2US/URP
- Mi-24 door gunners or field mods
 

Avimimus

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Kamov models From www.aviation.ru

1. Civil (except for the flying recon turret):
2. V-50 high speed assault helicopter:
3. Heavy transports:
4. Kamov V-100
5. An interesting plate

The last image contains the V-80 (as everyone will recognise), the larger helicopter is probably the Ka-25F, in the front on the right may be a light version of the V-60 (competitor to the Mi-36 before their specifications diverged) and the one on the upper left is currently unknown (to me at least). A bit of a mystery.
 

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Avimimus

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Some specs to be translated/machine translated and then groomed (I will do this if I have time):
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_rus/kamov.html
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_rus/mil.html
 

borovik

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Avimimus said:
... the one on the upper left is currently unknown (to me at least). A bit of a mystery.
two-seat combat helicopter mock-up constructed in 1975-1976 at the early stage of V-80 preliminary design.
source: A.Mazepov "Ka-50", Polygon 1997
 

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Avimimus

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Thank you! I have been wondering about it for years now! :) I take it then, that the V-100 was a two seat as well?

Also what types of cannon were planned (is it a Gsh-23L, Gsh-301 or 2a42)?
 

borovik

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Like as on Ka-25Ф(фронтовой/the battlefield) - GSh-23 , only there stood ganged installation, twin-barrel rotating cannon. GSh-30-1 ,appeared only in 1979, but "tank" cannon 2А42 was studied for late version V-80.
 

Avimimus

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Thank you! ;D This is exciting!

More questions (if you know the answers):
- what was the estimated weight of the initial V-80 studies?
- what was the anti-tank payload planned for the V-80 (The V-100 could easily of carried the standard Su-25 Rook armament but the V-80 has only two hardpoints)?
- what was the type of gun armament considered for the V-100?
- where were the hardpoints located on the Mil Mi-36 and Mi-40?

S!
 

borovik

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- Supposable : empty weight before 4000кg ,loaded weight before 6500кg.
- OKB Kamov’s has chosen latest sample Vikhr (AT-9)/Typhon/ ,capable to strike little dimensioned rolling purposes on range before 10 km.
If we consider early V-80(1975), that certainly he loses alternative V-100 with transverse scheme.
But about late V-80, work on which have begun at January 1977 were already other machine...(see second drawing)
- On V-100 was planned install 2 x GSh-23 (AO-9 one barrels version) on one with each board or still AO-10 (TKB-645) future GSh-30. (on many drawing V-100 with H-25ML or H-25MP) )-rocket against large stationary target.
- Reliable information on Mi-36 and Mi-40 I have no.
1) Intermediate model of the first single-seat attack helicopter variant with self-adjusting wing and unmovable cannon.
2) V-80 (1977)
Source:”Ka-50” A.Mazepov
“Ka-50 Verwolf’ S.Moroz AviO 3
“OKB N.I. Kamov’s”
 

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Avimimus

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Thanks,

I just noticed something neat: Borovik, the model, as well as the drawing, in your last post both have two pairs of stub wings (four wings in total)!

SmithW6079, it is an interesting airplane isn't it? The only data I have give it a 3000kg weapon load and a speed in the +-400kph range. It is nice to have finally found out the cannon armament (I had been imagining two Yak-b or Gsh-G). I will attempt to machine translate the Mil paper project articles from that website soon.
 

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Avimimus said:
I just noticed something neat: Borovik, the model, as well as the drawing, in your last post both have two pairs of stub wings (four wings in total)!

Only the upper can be defined as "wing" or better to say "canard" - so it has some positive aerodynamic effect on flight. The second pair is only a storage facility for the weapos as is for example on AH-64.
 

Triton

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The model of the Kamov V-100 intrigued me because it looks pretty cool.

In the mid-70s Kamov developed a project of the V- 100 combat helicopter which featured a number of unique technological solutions. The V-100 was an advanced heavy attack helicopter project by Kamov from the early 1980s. The V-100 design had rotors on the tips of a wing, and a pusher propeller to exceed the speed of 400km/h. The helicopter was to be armed with 3000kg of bombs and rockets, two machine-guns and two anti-ship or anti-radar missiles. The project is believed to be abandoned
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/v-100.htm
 

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frank

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Hmm. Seeing this pic reminds me of a blurb I recall reading in Rotor & Wing mag, or maybe Defence Helicopter News(?) in the mid '80s. It mentioned the Kamov Hokum design & stated that it may be similar in design to the Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne. This one makes me think of the AH-56.



borovik said:
Avimimus said:
... the one on the upper left is currently unknown (to me at least). A bit of a mystery.
On cause interesting You models - this is two-set combat helicopter mock-up constructed in 1975-1976
at the stage of V - 80 preliminary design.(early iteration of V - 80/Ka-50)
source: A.Mazepov "Ka-50" Polygon 1997
 

Lauge

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borovik said:
.....GSh-23 , only there stood ganged installation, twin-barrel rotating cannon.

Maybe off-topic, but in the interest of technical correctness, the GSh-23 doesn't rotate. This as opposed to gatling type weapons such as the US M61 and GAU-8 and the Russian GSh-6-30 and GSh-23-6, where a number of barrels (usually between 3 and 6) do indeed rotate around a common axis. Often referred to incorrectly as a "chain gun".

The GSh-23, on the gripping hand, is a twin-barrel weapon using the "Gast" principle invented by a German named, you guessed it, Gast (first name Karl) in 1916.

In a gast-type gun, the energy from firing one barrel is used to power the reloading cycle of the other. It gives you a high rate-of-fire for it's size and mass (gatling-type guns give higher RoF, but take up considerably more space and mass) and doesn't need external power, like some gatling type weapons.

Patent drawings are at http://www.google.com/patents?id=Ox5uAAAAEBAJ

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

borovik

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Lauge, thanks for the correction. Avimimus sorry. (That is what causes a rush and did not know the language :-[)
Thanks again Thomas
 

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Matej

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Found nice reconstruction of the Mi-42
(c) Oleg Pomoshnikov, www.gunpoint-3d.com
 

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Triton

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Three-view drawing of Mil Mi-42.
Source: 50 years of Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant, V.R.Mikheev
 

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Sundog

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That Mi-42 is one of the nicest looking helicopters I've ever seen. I had never heard of it until now. Thanks for posting the info. I'm tempted to buy that 3D model and make it compatible with MS Flight Simulator.
 

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Mi-40 was intriging on this side of the pond, not from an aerodynamic point of view, but from the number of works that called it a Helicopter Infantry Fighting Vehicle. Generated some interesting discussions on the use of the platform.
 

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in-house Mi-40 scetch
 

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Triton

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Model of Kamov V-100.

Source:
http://www.vertopedia.ru/items/show/418
 

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Pioneer

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The Mil single engine V-24 mock-ups!

Regards
Pioneer
 

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jsport

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Pioneer said:
The Mil single engine V-24 mock-ups!

Regards
Pioneer
wow, this posting blows me away.. muchos gracias..many answered questions...
 

Stingray

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I drew that last picture with the variant profiles for Wikipedia. I'm not sure if they are 100% accurate, however. The Mi-24BMT is still obviously quite a mystery to me. :eek:
 

Pioneer

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Stingray™ said:
I drew that last picture with the variant profiles for Wikipedia. I'm not sure if they are 100% accurate, however. The Mi-24BMT is still obviously quite a mystery to me. :eek:

I'm sorry Stingray!!! I had that drawing on my hard drive, which I had saved from an email a mate sent me a while ago. I didn't know its source :-[
Full credit to you for your time and talent!!!

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Stingray

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No worries! I'm actually very happy to see my rotary-related work spread around like this. Thanks for posting it. ;)


I have another set of profiles for the later Mi-24 series, but I've yet to update it like I have with the above early series one. Maybe one day I'll overcome lazyness and get around to it.
 

mil

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one of the first versions of the Mi-24 in 1967
 

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mil

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Preparations for the establishment of military single-engine helicopter Mi-22-armor. A comparison of the location of the cabin armored storm-
vetch IL-2 since World War II and the helicopter. 1965
 

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Pioneer

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Nice find Mil regarding 'early version of Mi-24 in 1967'
Does it have an official designation?
It looks somewhat smaller than the 'standard' Hind (going by the size of troops in the troop compartment)
A different turreted gun arrangement?
Is there more drawings??

Regards
Pioneer
 

hesham

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Do you mean this Mil Mi-22 project ?.


http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mi-22.php
 

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...
 

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stashandr

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Hi to all,
does anybody know, when Kamov V-50 was designed?
I've heard two versions - in 1967-69 years (by Erlikh) and in 80th (Ka-29 successor).
 

borovik

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In 1969 he was proposed a project of a combat helicopter V-50 (with longitudinal two main rotors)
 

hesham

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borovik said:
В 1969 году он был предложен проект боевого вертолета V-50 (с продольными двух несущих винтов)


What is that meaning my dear Borovik ?.
 

stashandr

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It means that the first version is right.

But why does this model have "ВМФ" (the Soviet Navy) designation?
 

Stargazer2006

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stashandr said:
Hi to all,
does anybody know, when Kamov V-50 was designed?
I've heard two versions - in 1967-69 years (by Erlikh) and in 80th (Ka-29 successor).

This seems to be a recurrent question on various forums. Perhaps even asked by the same people?

Allow me to speculate here that the answer may not be as clearcut as borovik and others suggest.

A close look at the pictures we have of the V-50 show two distinct models: the long passenger transport with circular fuselage section, downward canted fins and elevators that has a turret underneath the forward fuselage is an older model, quite possibly the late 1960s version of the design. However, the shorter variant has a squared-off fuselage section, armament racks under small wings a la Mi-24, and a heavily redesigned rear end, and this could very well have been a 1980s rework of the same basic concept, hence the two dates in circulation.
 

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mil

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The first version of the V50 (Designer Ehrlich)
 

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