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Richard Vogt and Kawasaki aeroplanes and projects

Jjr

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As you all know Richard Vogt was send to Kawasaki by Dornier for the production of Dornier types.
Later he became chief designer at the Kawasaki factory.
For a few types there is information which he designed for the company.
But who can help me with a list of aeroplanes and projects designed by Vogt for the company?
Details of these aeroplanes and projects are welcome, special the projects.
Thanks
Jjr
 

hesham

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Hi Jjr,

Dr. Richard Vogt stayed in Kawasaki from 1923 to 1933,he designed KDA-2 light
bomber and recce versions,also KDC-2 experimental transport airplane,followed
by KDA-3 experimental fighter and anther experimental recce carrier aircraft of 1927,
he assisted the Japanese designer Takeo Doi to develop the KDA-5 Army Type-92
fighter.

In early 1930,the KDA-6 recce airplane,later was improved into A-6 communication
monoplane,went forward by Ki-3 light bomber and Ki-5 cantilever low-wing monoplane
fighter,finally the KDC-5 communication airplane of 1933,for Projects you can ask
my dear Blackkite.
 

Basil

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Jjr,

I recommend to read his memoirs (Weltumspannende Memoiren eines Flugzeugkonstrukteurs [Global memoirs of an aircraft designer]) where he tells about his years in Japan.
 

Jjr

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Basil

Thanks for the information, I have tried to find thid books, but without any succes.

jjr
 

blackkite

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Hi!

Japanese wiki.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF%E3%83%88
"クラウディウス・ドルニエの代わりに短期間イタリアに行き、1923年から1933年まで日本の神戸にあるドルニエ機をライセンス生産していた川崎造船所(川崎航空機)へ派遣された。日本で主任設計技師の地位を与えられ、後に三式戦闘機「飛燕」を設計する後継者となる若い技術者の土井武夫を育成。この期間に、川崎KDA-5陸軍九二式複葉戦闘機、川崎KDA-2陸軍八八式複葉偵察機、川崎KDA-3単座戦闘機(土井武夫との共作)を含む数機種の設計を行った。"

"設計した航空機

日本
川崎 KDA-2 陸軍八八式偵察機(1927年、710機製造)
川崎 KDA-3単座戦闘機(1928年、3機製造)
川崎 KDA-5 陸軍九二式戦闘機(1930年、385機製造)"

KDA means Kawasaki Dockyard, Army.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Russian site is excellent. ;D Please try translator.
KDA-2
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/kda2.html
KDA-3
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/kda3.html
KDA-5
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/kda5.html
KDC-2
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cw1/kdc2.html
KDA-6
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/kda6.html
KDC-5
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cw1/kdc5.html
Ki-3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-3
Ki-5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-5
 

blackkite

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Japanese site.
http://military.sakura.ne.jp/ac/kda2.htm
English site.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Army_Type_88_Reconnaissance_Aircraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_KDA-3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Army_Type_92_Fighter
 

Jjr

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Thanks for the information, but what do you know/have about projects designed by Vogt during the time he worked for Kawasaki?
Jjr
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Richard Vogt designed aircraft in Kawasaki
(1) The Army Type 88 Reconnaissance-plane(The Kawasaki KDA-2)
(2) The Army Type 88 Light Bomber(The Kawasaki KDA-2)
(3) The Experimental KDC-2 Transport-plane
(4) The Experimental KDA-3 Fighter
(5) The Army Type 92 Fighter(The Kawasaki KDA-5)
(6) The Experimental KDA-6 Reconnaissance-plane
(The Experimental A-6 Communication-plane)
(7) The Army Type 93 Single-Engined Light-Bomber(Ki-3)
(8) The Kawasaki C-5(KDC-5) Communication-plane(He did direction)
(9) The Experimental Ki-5 Fighter(He did direction)

Source : ENCYCLOPEDIA OF JAPANESE AIRCRAFT VOL.4 KAWASAKI AIRCRAFT CONTENTS
 

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blackkite

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Maveric said:
Do not annoy, blackkite san! I am grateful to you.
Thank you very much for your gentle words, my great master. :D

Bottom drawing explanation.
(1)No.1 KDA-5
(2)Preston cooler testing experimental aircraft
(3)Modified cooler testing experimental aircraft
 

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Jjr

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Hai Blackkite, I will thank you for this nice and good material you send.
Jjr
 

blackkite

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You're welcome. :D
 

Boogey

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I have never found the designation KDA-1 either in internet nor in literature ;
I suspect this should be credited to the Kawasaki Army type 87 Heavy Bomber Aircraft ( Hachi-Nana-Shiki Jūbakugekiki ).
Then the Kawasaki KDA system designation list would look like below :

KDA-2 ............ Army type 88 Reconnaissance Aircraft ( Hachi-Hachi-Shiki Teisatsuki ).
KDA-2 Kai ....... Army type 88 Light Bomber Aircraft ( Hachi-Hachi-Shiki Keibakugekiki ).
KDA-3 ............ Army Experimental / Prototype Fighter Aircraft ( Shisaku Sentōki ).
KDA-4 ............ ?
KDA-5 ............. Army type 92 Fighter Aircraft ( Kyū-Ni-Shiki Sentōki ).
KDA-6 ............. Army Experimental / Prototype Reconnaissance Aircraft ( Shisaku Teisatsuki ).
KDA-7 ............. Army type 93 Single-engined Light Bomber Aircraft Ki-3 ( Kyū-San-Shiki Tankeibakugekiki Ki-3 ).
KDA-8 ............. Army Experimental / Prototype Fighter Aircraft Ki-5 ( Shisaku Sentōki Ki-5 ).
KDA-9 ............. Army type 95 Fighter Aircraft Ki-10 ( Kyū-Go-Shiki Sentōki Ki-10 ).
 

blackkite

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HmHm.....Logical. Give me time. It's a good and a hard question. ;)
 

hesham

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Oh my God,you made my day,

thank you my dear Boogey,and from the book; Japanese Aircraft 1910-1941,
here is the reason for why they didn't use KDA-4
 

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Boogey

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Well, the Japaneses use also the word Yon for the Four.
 

blackkite

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I can't find any information about KDA-1.
According to ENCYCLOPEDIA OF JAPANESE AIRCRAFT VOL.4 KAWASAKI AIRCRAFT CONTENTS, the Army Type 87 Heavy Bomber was called as Kawasaki Dornier Do.N.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%89%E3%83%AB%E3%83%8B%E3%82%A8_Do.N

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kawasaki_Army_Type_87_Heavy_Bomber.jpg

http://www.aero.or.jp/isan/gallery/miyahara-album-003/photos/AHA-MA-003-014-003.html
 

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Boogey

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Maybe we shouldn't search for the official designation KDA-1 as is might never be given to the aircraft type. I guess the numeration had begun
from the second type built for the IJA. Such things happen sometimes to enthusiasts of aircratft designation systems for making them happy ;D
 

blackkite

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Hi!
The Experimental Ki-5 fighter. Four aircraft were completed.
Leader : Richard Vogt , Designer : Takeo Doi.

This fighter is the Kawasaki's first cantilever , low wing, monoplane, completed in February 1934.
The performance of this fighter was far below the calculation forecast.
In particular, there were the lack of lateral stability at low speeds, vibration of the engine and malfunction of the cooling system.
The effort to solve these problems was continued for six months, after all, this fighter was rejected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-5

http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/30514/Kawasaki-Ki-5

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/ki5.html
 

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Boogey

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The Kawasaki Ki-5 experimental fighter was last of the Richard Vogt's design in Japan. After his return to Germany he designed the P6 diving bomber project for the Luftwaffe, based on the Ki-5 which later became the Blohm und Voss Ha 137.
 

hesham

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Boogey said:
The Kawasaki Ki-5 experimental fighter was last of the Richard Vogt's design in Japan. After his return to Germany he designed the P6 diving bomber project for the Luftwaffe, based on the Ki-5 which later became the Blohm und Voss Ha 137.
New Info my dear,thanks.
 

blackkite

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Boogey said:
The Kawasaki Ki-5 experimental fighter was last of the Richard Vogt's design in Japan. After his return to Germany he designed the P6 diving bomber project for the Luftwaffe, based on the Ki-5 which later became the Blohm und Voss Ha 137.
Oh thanks a lot. :D

http://alternathistory.livejournal.com/839680.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger_Flugzeugbau_Ha_137
 

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Boogey

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The single-seat civil training monoplane Ha 136, Richard Vogt's earlier design of 1934 in the Hamburger Flugzeugbau.
http://www.histaviation.com/Hamburger_Flugzeugbau_Ha_136.html
 

blackkite

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Oh straight wing!!
 

Boogey

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Vogt's Ha 136 was civilian airplane so it didn't need to get much advanced aerodinamic technology, though.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Vogt designed Rikugun(The IJA) (Kawasaki) experimental three seats light bomber.
Competitor of Mitsubishi 2MB2. Winner was Mitsubishi 2MB1.

Source : THE XPLANES of IMPERIAL JAPANESE ARMY & NAVY 1924~45
 

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edwest

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You will have to read a little German, but here is the book by Vogt.

 

blackkite

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Thanks! I gave up to study German in a week. ;)
 

Jjr

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Hi late response, but there were some personal problems.
You can see on the earley projects influence of Dornier construction.
About the Rikugun IJA, was this a design during Vogt's Kawasaki period or before? Which year?
Are there more details of this aeroplanes, technical/dimensions etc.?
Are there any drawings and/or pictures which shows the inside construction?
Pictures of these aeroplanes under construction?
Would be interresting.
Thanks
Jjr
 

windswords

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Thanks! I gave up to study German in a week. ;)
Interesting. I actually enjoyed learning German. Spanish however is giving me a headache! To each his own I guess! Was English much easier for you to learn?
 

blackkite

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Yes English is a excellent language which worth to study. :D
 

blackkite

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Hi late response, but there were some personal problems.
You can see on the earley projects influence of Dornier construction.
About the Rikugun IJA, was this a design during Vogt's Kawasaki period or before? Which year?
Are there more details of this aeroplanes, technical/dimensions etc.?
Are there any drawings and/or pictures which shows the inside construction?
Pictures of these aeroplanes under construction?
Would be interresting.
Thanks
Jjr
Good and hard questions!! Give me time.;)
 

Jjr

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Concerning Vogt, source his book.
After the war he worked 6 weeks for Heinkel, but he did not liked it because Vogt found that metal aeroplanes were the future and not what Heinkel did at that time.
Now I was without a job. But when I get to my room, to get my things, I found to my supprise a letter from Claudius Dornier, whos factory was at the other site of the country. He wrote that he tried to get him several times to get back. (Vogt worked during the war for some time at the Zeppelin factory, with Dornier).
He tried again and asked him to met in Friedichshafen. After a trip of 20 hours by railway to Bodensee, there was a supprise. The Dornier-factory had a licence agrement with the aircraftdepartment with the Japanese Kawasaki Dockyard in Kobe.
One point of this was that some Inginieure should get to Japan with a leader, who know, the Dornier metalaeroplane where constructed and build and alsonows a lot of statik and dynamik. Dornier says that I was the man, and I was so happy that I accepted the job.

Because in Germany would for some time very liitle aeroplane to be build, so I had to travel to Pisa in Italy, where the latest Dornier aeroplanes were to be build. So I have to work there to see the newest construction details.

More follows.
Jjr
 

blackkite

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Vogt designed Rikugun(The IJA) (Kawasaki) experimental three seats light bomber.
Completed two aircraft in 1927.
Almost no data available except,
Engine : BMW-6 liquid cooling v12 engine, 600hp
Empty weight : 2212kg, Gross weight : 3676kg, Service ceiling : 6000m, Endurnce : 4.5hr

Perhaps you can measure aircraft size based on BMW engine exhaust nozzel size.;)
 

Jjr

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Hai blackkite,
An interesting detail, Vogt was not payed by Kawasaki but by the Japanese government.
Its possible that all the foreigners working with Aircraft factory had the same conditions?
Concerning the Rikugun the IJA, I found in Vogt's book some details, what I think was about this aeroplane.

The ingenieurcorps of the armyairforce wanted that I designed a lightbomber with the people of the armyairforce with help of the aerodynamic department of the University of Tokio. The offices and factory were at the Tokorozawa airfield, about one hour with the high speed electric train from Tokio.
For nine moths of a year I was 3 weeks in Tokio in the Imperial hotel and 3 weeks with Kawasaki at Kobe.
When the lightbomber was ready, the pilot asked me, to fly with the second flight.
He would like me to see that the top wing get to the left and to the right, this by the landing when the pilot landed on one wheel.
I made the connecting between the fuselage and the top wing stronger and it was over.
This made me interrsted in notsymetric which I later used with B&V.
The aeroplane was not build in serie, because the ordered the modified 88, with a stronger engine.

Blackkite is there maybe at the University some materials left?
Jjr
 

Jjr

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Vogt
I was sure that the Japanese not only would build Dornier aeroplanes in licence but also the own designs, where they would use the Dornier construction and building methots.
So I asked Dornier what he found if I would design and build with the Japanese.
Dornier told me that I could not revuse it, but slowly.
What arrived in Kobe in there were 3 officers and one Government Ing. Waiting for me.
Insted of explenation of the Dornier constrontion methots etc. I received a lot of question which I would answer on paper.
After about two years it started with the construction of a new spotter plane.
The army asked for an aeroplane powered by the Hispano-Suiza (licence Mitsubishi), but Kawasaki had just the licence of the BMW-VI. So we asked if we could not use this engine, havier but better results at higher altitutes. The answer was yes, so we used the BMW.
I did some new construction, which would save materials and weight.
I one moment the direction of Kawasaki had the idee to send me to Dornier to spek with him about my construction and ask him for his advice.
The construction of the prototype was already in a fas stadium, so I think it was more that the name Dornier could be used, he had at that time a famous name.
Dornier told me not to much new construction to use but to use the old with little new ones.
But back I still used the new ones I designed and some months later the Kawasaki-8 showed that itwas the best desing in the competition.
The other firms were not happy and told the 88 was winner thanks to the BMW engine, the army give them permission to use also the BMW engine.
4 weeks a new the but the 88 was stil the best.
 

blackkite

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Hai blackkite,
An interesting detail, Vogt was not payed by Kawasaki but by the Japanese government.
Its possible that all the foreigners working with Aircraft factory had the same conditions?
Concerning the Rikugun the IJA, I found in Vogt's book some details, what I think was about this aeroplane.

The ingenieurcorps of the armyairforce wanted that I designed a lightbomber with the people of the armyairforce with help of the aerodynamic department of the University of Tokio. The offices and factory were at the Tokorozawa airfield, about one hour with the high speed electric train from Tokio.
For nine moths of a year I was 3 weeks in Tokio in the Imperial hotel and 3 weeks with Kawasaki at Kobe.
When the lightbomber was ready, the pilot asked me, to fly with the second flight.
He would like me to see that the top wing get to the left and to the right, this by the landing when the pilot landed on one wheel.
I made the connecting between the fuselage and the top wing stronger and it was over.
This made me interrsted in notsymetric which I later used with B&V.
The aeroplane was not build in serie, because the ordered the modified 88, with a stronger engine.

Blackkite is there maybe at the University some materials left?
Jjr
Ummm hard as usual!!............. :D
 

Jjr

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Vogt
Next came a single seat fighter, at request of the army.
It should be powered by a Hispano-Suiza engine.
They expected THE engine for the fighter.
Again a battle between foreigner constructors, Prof. Bauman and Dr. Lachmann but now also a french constructor who came from Nieuport and worked for Nakajima.
His aeroplane ended earley, because a crash.
Again my design was winner, but the army stopped the project without any reason.

With these two constructions they thrusted me completely.
They asked me to design and build a single seat fighter of my own idea.
I was free in armament and engine.
The company would take the risk, if my calculations showed, that the heavier but with more power BMW-engine better was as one with the Hispano-Suiza.
I quickly find out that this should be.
Half a year later we could show the army mynew fighter. We gatva new world record with it to 10 000 meters.
The fighter received the number 92, andvwas excepter.

Two other constructions I will mention.
The Japanese newspaper "Asahi Shimbun" would have a fast two-seater, for a flight around te world.
I designed a good looking lowwing with a Kawasaki-BMW-Motor.
The aeroplane made a longrangetrip in Masjoerije and than the flight around the world.

My last construction was a single fighter, a low wing wing a knick with closed landinggear.
This aeroplane gives the pilot a better view and closed landinggear was ideal to put in two haevy machine guns and because of there position they did not use a synchro system
The aeroplane made its first flight after I left Japan.

(Later I will show some picture)

Jjr
 
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