Rhodesian Boeing Chinook ?

Seems a rather distinctive type to have been supplied/used covertly although states could get away with much more in some regions without report back then.
Did the US. provide military aid that openly or a misidentification with another type such as SAAF. Puma ?
 
I wonder if there might also be some confusion with the Rhodesian Dakotas. Obviously not physically, but if one report said C-47s were involved and another talked about unspecified helicopters, an amateur might conflate C-47 with CH-47.
 
TsrJoe said:
Mirage III ?) October 1978
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What I find interesting is the presence of the three Mirages.
In an interview later, ZAPU president Nkomo said two British-built Hawker Hunter fighters and three French-made Mirages had taken part and had dropped unusally heavy bombs.

He said the Rhodesians do not make such bombs and suggested that they might have come from the United States.

While the Rhodesians are known to have Hawker Hunter aircraft, no independent diplomatic or journalistic source has been able to confirm the guerrillas' belief that they have obtained Mirages from South Africa.
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I think the only publication I've seen mention of the RhAF having access to Mirages is Vic Flintham's Aircraft and Air Wars.
I'm offshore so can't check my copy, but somebody on here will have a copy they can check.

Chris
 
CJGibson said:
I think the only publication I've seen mention of the RhAF having access to Mirages is Vic Flintham's Aircraft and Air Wars.
I'm offshore so can't check my copy, but somebody on here will have a copy they can check.
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Yes, it would be great !
 
Fylde airforce base in Rhodesia, with a runway length in excess of 3000 meters, was built by South Africa to facilitate SAAF operations in aid of Rhodesia.
One aircraft that readily springs to mind requiring such a runway is the Mirage III.

Operation Sand was the training of Rhodesian pilots on the Mirage III in South Africa.
From what I can gather, the Mirage III fleet was to be given over to the Rhodesian Airforce once local production of the Mirage F1 commenced in South Africa, to the tune of a 100 or so.
The 1977 arms embargo against South Africa scuppered the further production of F1's, and thus this projected Rhodesian Mirage III plan.
 
CJGibson said:
I think the only publication I've seen mention of the RhAF having access to Mirages is Vic Flintham's Aircraft and Air Wars.
I'm offshore so can't check my copy, but somebody on here will have a copy they can check.
Click to expand...

Not only access, but RhAF Flt Lt Ricky Culpan identified the unintentional omission of airflow angle data from the Mirage's gunsight computer. The SAAF developed an airflow sensor vane and reprogrammed the computer to incorporate the extra input, hugely improving gunnery accuracy. ( From "Winds of Destruction" ).


kaiserbill said:
Operation Sand was the training of Rhodesian pilots on the Mirage III in South Africa.
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Op SAND was the general jet training of RhAF pilots by the SAAF at Laangeban and Durban. I don't know the name of the op that had them manning the Mirage sqn.
 
This one's a little O/T, Rhodesian Air Force F.86K Sabre ? ... Air International, Vol.8/No.5, May 1975
 

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Kiltonge said:
Op SAND was the general jet training of RhAF pilots by the SAAF at Laangeban and Durban. I don't know the name of the op that had them manning the Mirage sqn.
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True.. I should have been clearer.
The training consisted of the same jet aircraft stream as the SAAF pilots...Impala, Mirage III.
Ran from the early to late 1970's.
 
TsrJoe said:
This one's a little O/T, Rhodesian Air Force F.86K Sabre ? ... Air International, Vol.8/No.5, May 1975
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The deal was blocked and never delivered.

Another rumour was that Rhodesia had managed to obtain a few OV-10s from Indonesia. Flight, 02 Feb 1979. Possibly misidentification of the Cessna 337?

An agent at the time might have been sniffing around France ( lots of stored S-58s just replaced by Alo IIIs ), Australia ( stored Avon Sabres and C-130As ) and Iran ( F-86s ).
 

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TsrJoe said:
This one's a little O/T, Rhodesian Air Force F.86K Sabre ? ... Air International, Vol.8/No.5, May 1975
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Speaking of Sabres, I never understood why the SAAF Sabre Mk6's weren't passed over to the Rhodesian airforce.
They were handed over to the Advanced Flying School at AFB Pietersburg after being replaced by Mirages, and were basically retired by around 1978.

The one jet aircraft that made a lot of sense for the Rhodesian airforce was the Impala.
They already trained on them in South Africa, and it was manufactured in South Africa in both twin seater trainer, and single seat attack.
Over 200 were built locally by Atlas.
 
kaiserbill said:
The one jet aircraft that made a lot of sense for the Rhodesian airforce was the Impala
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IIRC the decision against supplying the Impala was to avoid jeopardising the relationship with Rolls-Royce.

As for the Sabres, I think they were structurally exhausted by the time they were retired. But yes I'm sure the RhAF could have squeezed some more life out of them.
 
Kiltonge said:
For the Sabres, I think they were structurally exhausted by the time they were retired.
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After being withdrawn from service, the CL-13Bs were sold back to the USA to be converted into drones for missile testing.
Some of them were still in flying conditions in 1989.
www.airhistory.net

Aircraft Photo of 350 | Canadair CL-13B Sabre 6 | South Africa - Air Force | AirHistory.net #418318

Aircraft photo of 350 - Canadair CL-13B Sabre 6 - South Africa - Air Force, taken by Kjell O Granlund Collection at Mojave - Air and Space Port (KMHV / MHV) in California, United States on 5 August 1984. Flight Systems bought nine SAAF Sabres for conversion to drones. However, only this 350 was...
www.airhistory.net www.airhistory.net
www.airhistory.net

Aircraft Photo of N3841V / 23669 | Canadair CL-13B Sabre 6 | AirHistory.net #419125

Aircraft photo of N3841V / 23669 - Canadair CL-13B Sabre 6, taken by Raymond Rivard at Mojave - Air and Space Port (KMHV / MHV) in California, United States in November 1989. Former RCAF 23669. To the SAAF as 350 in 1957 then to Flight Systems as N3841V in 1983 and converted to a QF-86 standard...
www.airhistory.net www.airhistory.net
 
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I think the reason the South Africans didn't give their Mk.6 Sabres to the Rhodesians was that they withdrew them from service in 1980, probably because they didn't have a replacement for them before then.
And Rhodesia ceased to exist in 1980.

The South African Air Force

Privately run, unofficial website on the South African Air Force. It is maintained by myself during my (limited) spare time so please read the Disclaimer. I hope you enjoy the experience and visit again soon. All suggestions are welcome - Dean Wingrin
www.saairforce.co.za
 
Kiltonge said:
Misidentification. Could have been SAAF Frelons which operated on some Rhodesian externals.
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A Chap I know who was Rhodesian SAS at the time was sent on a Recovery Mission with some others to recover the bodies and weapons from one of the Crash sites and he swears (I known him for years and he's no BSer) that it was a twin rotor helicopter at the site, but he did say that when they got there someone else had already been and taken all the weapons and radio gear that would of identified the bodies as Rhodesian.
ps, It seems that the Israel did have some Chinooks on trials from the US but for what ever reason didn't buy them.
 

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