Proposals to name modern monitors

[JoeCalPo]

It's all from Chapter 14 "Fire Support Revisited" of Norman Friedman's U.S. Amphibious Ships and Craft An Illustrated Design History.

View attachment 782885

I will be modeling this to go along with my several BB-62s. Have several spare Iowa 16”/50 triples, some 8” barrels and a variety of 5”. Need to pick a year to decide if Phalanx or BPDMS - 1970s, 1980s, 1990s
No mount forward of the 16s though, it just seems an uncomfortable place.
Mast - see what’s in the spares.

I’ll happily take ideas to guide and focus the build.
Her name! Potential sources: state, territory, battle, or old monitors

 

[Scott Kenny]

I will be modeling this to go along with my several BB-62s. Have several spare Iowa 16”/50 triples, some 8” barrels and a variety of 5”. Need to pick a year to decide if Phalanx or BPDMS - 1970s, 1980s, 1990s
No mount forward of the 16s though, it just seems an uncomfortable place.
Mast - see what’s in the spares.

I’ll happily take ideas to guide and focus the build.
Her name! Potential sources: state, territory, battle, or old monitors

I think I'd go with monitors or maybe famous sailors.

 

[isayyo2]

I’ll happily take ideas to guide and focus the build.
Her name! Potential sources: state, territory, battle, or old monitors

70s with the bulky Mk 25 GMLS - maybe a few 3"/50s as well?

For potential USN Monitors, I've always fancied Native American tribes: Powhatan, Iroquois, Paiute etc

 

[MadRat]

How about famous Indian chiefs and people? USS Lalawethika ("He Makes a Loud Noise")

 

[isayyo2]

How about famous Indian chiefs and people? USS Lalawethika ("He Makes a Loud Noise")

^ Even better

Pontiac, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Tecumseh, many possibilities with this one.

 

[Tzoli]

USS Terror, Dictator, Puritan, Kickapoo seems appropiate

 

[JoeCalPo]

How about famous Indian chiefs and people? USS Lalawethika ("He Makes a Loud Noise")

That one I like, I’ll have to look him up!
And it fits with the historic making of monitors, although in the 20th century Native tribe names had shifted to tugs. Although although ship and sub names were all over the place in the 1960s and 70s.

 

[Dilandu]

USS Terror, Dictator, Puritan, Kickapoo seems appropiate

I support that) Add "Vesuvius" also)

 

[Scott Kenny]

That one I like, I’ll have to look him up!
And it fits with the historic making of monitors, although in the 20th century Native tribe names had shifted to tugs. Although although ship and sub names were all over the place in the 1960s and 70s.

Sub names up to the 688 class were all for fish (or whales). Then Rickover wanted to spend a lot of money in the 688 class, and decided to propose City names (previously used for cruisers): the home cities of the 12 people on the Armed Services Committee that were hearing his proposal.

I support that) Add "Vesuvius" also)

Sadly, IIRC that was taken in the 1970s as an ammunition ship.

 

[apparition13]

No mount forward of the 16s though, it just seems an uncomfortable place.

It's not going to be firing dead ahead; it'll be broadside to the target. I see 16", Mk 71 8", and what looks to me to be Mk 66 dual five inch turrets in the lower illustration.

 

[Dilandu]

Sadly, IIRC that was taken in the 1970s as an ammunition ship.

Nope, the last USS Vesuvius (AE-15) was decommissioned in 1973 and scrapped in 1974. And the monitors project is of 1967. So assuming they were laid up in 1969-1970, one of them could pretty well catch the name)

 

[publiusr]

Volcanoes make for good names....tornadic events named after cities....Guin, New Richmond, Xenia...

 

[JoeCalPo]

Balsa for the hull and superstructure, styrene for decks. Spare parts galore, though I will stick close to the plans posted. Need to scratch or adapt the MCLWG mount. Will toss in a ringer or two armament-wise, though a real-world item that is time-appropriate.

 

[Archibald]

Kickapoo seems appropiate

Kick a poo ? Now that's a ship that will make shit flying all over the place.
(I'll see myself out)

I support that) Add "Vesuvius" also)

What kind of idiot name an ammunition ship after a freakkin' volcano ?

 

[Firefinder]

What kind of idiot name an ammunition ship after a freakkin' volcano ?

The ones who like the Irony.

Slash see it as an easy short hands for crews to understand that.

Hey idiots, this ship is legit dangerous, fuck with it we all going to die.

 

[Avimimus]

^ Even better

Pontiac, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Tecumseh, many possibilities with this one.

I'm not sure what is accomplished by this. Several of these people died fighting the U.S. or were assassinated for resisting it. Their war tactics were also quite un-monitor like.

If one wants something with a 'similar ring', which is a perfect fit - I'd go with: Thunder Child.

It is the name of the fictional torpedo ram (although something more cruiser sized), but clearly a littoral ship, which heroically succeeds in destroying a couple of Martian Tripods in Well's War of the Worlds (before being taken out by a magazine explosion). It seems a very fitting name for a monitor (small ship with a big gun).

 

[Avimimus]

What kind of idiot name an ammunition ship after a freakkin' volcano ?

You'd enjoy reading through the list of names of old Royal Navy ships... there were some pretty questionable choices.

*edit* See the volcano series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bomb_vessels_of_the_Royal_Navy

 

[JoeCalPo]

The US has named many ships after Native tribes that actively fought US troops, as well as other people who fought against the US military, so that's not an issue.
Vesuvius was an earlier bombardment ship, but another was still in service.
Something politically expedient is going to be used in this era. She's an amphib, so in the Marines tradition?

Also, can anyone find me the actual dimensions of the MCLWG mount? Lots of pictures online, plenty of specs about the gun and the whole system, but not for the mount itself.

 

[Archibald]

You'd enjoy reading through the list of names of old Royal Navy ships... there were some pretty questionable choices.

They called George Leygues "legs" and Henri IV Quatre, "angry cat".

 

[Tzoli]

View attachment 802126
Balsa for the hull and superstructure, styrene for decks. Spare parts galore, though I will stick close to the plans posted. Need to scratch or adapt the MCLWG mount. Will toss in a ringer or two armament-wise, though a real-world item that is time-appropriate.

You might find these useful then:
8" Mark 28 - 32:


6,5" Mark 1:

5" Mark 19:

Do not remember which CIWS envisioned for it (If any)
But here is the 30mm Mark 28 Emerlec:

 

[Avimimus]

The US has named many ships after Native tribes that actively fought US troops, as well as other people who fought against the US military, so that's not an issue.

Maybe it isn't an issue for the U.S. military, it might be an issue for some of the descendants on the other side though...

 

[drwells42]

You might find these useful then:
8" Mark 28 - 32:
View attachment 802137

Cool stuff! Where did the twin mount come from?

DRW

 

[drwells42]

Also, can anyone find me the actual dimensions of the MCLWG mount? Lots of pictures online, plenty of specs about the gun and the whole system, but not for the mount itself.

Hi Joe.

Try this:

 

[Scott Kenny]

Maybe it isn't an issue for the U.S. military, it might be an issue for some of the descendants on the other side though...

The Tribes are honored to be remembered as amazing warriors. See all the Army helicopters (and I guess the rest of their aircraft), the first production bird is officially presented to the Tribe for acceptance.

 

[Tzoli]

Cool stuff! Where did the twin mount come from?

DRW

From the Through Deck Cruiser Proposal, eg the American Moskva:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/through-deck-cruiser-the-new-capital-ship.8002/

 

[Dilandu]

From the Through Deck Cruiser Proposal, eg the American Moskva:

More like "American Kiev", it got angle deck.

 

[Tzoli]

More like "American Kiev", it got angle deck.

Ahh you are right!

 

[drwells42]

From the Through Deck Cruiser Proposal, eg the American Moskva:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/through-deck-cruiser-the-new-capital-ship.8002/

I'm familiar with that thread and that proposal, but I don't recall ever seeing such a nice, detailed drawing of the twin 8". Yes, I like it a lot!

DRW

 

[Scott Kenny]

You might find these useful then:
8" Mark 28 - 32:
View attachment 802137

Oooh, like that twin 8"! Is that the Mk32 mount?

Though I admit I prefer the single, as it's a physical drop-in to the 5"/54 Mk42.

6,5" Mark 1:
View attachment 802138

6.5"?

When was the USN working on 6.5" weapons? 175mm is not 6.5"

 

[JoeCalPo]

Just need nice weather to let me get outside to cut the hull and superstructure pieces.

Thank you for the images and details of the MCLWG!
I have the NJ turret, plenty 5"/54s, and a couple 3" twins for AA. Found a PE mast from some long-gone model, and have a SH-2F, although maybe something a little different yet still a real possibility.

I'm thinking Weehawken as a name, being the only monitor to defeat another in battle. (Plus it's a town name in a politically significant region, which gets a Congressional vote.) And I'm a New Jerseyean and have been to Weehawken, and am building a model of the original monitor Weehawken. Might even have some fun sticking them together at a show and letting people wonder.

 

[Tzoli]

Oooh, like that twin 8"! Is that the Mk32 mount?

Though I admit I prefer the single, as it's a physical drop-in to the 5"/54 Mk42.


6.5"?

When was the USN working on 6.5" weapons? 175mm is not 6.5"

Looks like I was mis-designated it. It should be 6.9"/60 Mark 1 as that corresponds with the 175mm calibre

 

[Yellow Palace]

They called George Leygues "legs" and Henri IV Quatre, "angry cat".

That wasn't entirely unique to French ships.... they also called Bellerophon 'Billy Ruffian'.

Maybe it isn't an issue for the U.S. military, it might be an issue for some of the descendants on the other side though...

That hasn't tended to bother the US military all that much. More so now, but the 1960s and 1970s weren't quite so concerned by that kind of thing.

Looks like I was mis-designated it. It should be 6.9"/60 Mark 1 as that corresponds with the 175mm calibre

175mm/60 Mark 1 is probably more likely. It'd be looking for a designation right around the time the United States was starting to embrace the metric system.

 

[drwells42]

So, is there any information on where the drawing of the twin 8" came from? If it's from a real/official source, it's the first I've heard of it. If it's a "fanboy" effort, it's still well done.

DRW

 

[Firefinder]

It's base a drawing that show up once on a design, the Before Mention Through Deck Cruiser of the 1970s from an naval proceedings article.

It basically the only place it is mentioned anywhere so it's unlikely to be a real thing that the USN funded, especially since the one posted looks NOTHING LIKE the art in the article.

 

[Nik]

Lots of 'Cascade Range' volcanoes...

Let's exclude Mt St. Helens, though, due its infamous side-blast...

 

[Scott Kenny]

Lots of 'Cascade Range' volcanoes...

Let's exclude Mt St. Helens, though, due its infamous side-blast...

Again, in the 1970s when the original proposals were being made, volcanoes were ammunition ships.

Today it might be an option.

 

[JoeCalPo]

On a related subject, I propose this class would have followed the BM series, so the first will be BM-11.

As for the design, I know the original proposal called for no armor, but I think at least the 16” and 8” magazines would have had protection. Of course one wouldn’t see that on the model, so it’s merely a topic of discussion.

 

[Scott Kenny]

On a related subject, I propose this class would have followed the BM series, so the first will be BM-11.

As for the design, I know the original proposal called for no armor, but I think at least the 16” and 8” magazines would have had protection. Of course one wouldn’t see that on the model, so it’s merely a topic of discussion.

I think that just to support the weight of the 16" turret you'd end up with quite a bit of steel thickness. The trick would be to make it armor grade, not basic mild steel.

 

[JoeCalPo]

Okay, I went with parts I had on hand. The hull is carved wood reshaped with putty, the parts from the spares box. She's as-built around 1970.

Due to circumstances the main turret has two guns, which I explain as a weight-saving in exchange for space inside the turret for the crew, and armor for the magazine.
Aft I have a triple 6" as a placeholder for the MCLWG, and older 5"/54s and twin 3", the idea being she was built out with plans to upgrade/replace the older weapons over time.

I decided on Weehawken as her name after the famed monitor, plus I'm a proud New Jerseyan and have been to and through that town.
She's BM-11 following the SpanAm era monitor designation and numbering.

Joe

 

[isayyo2]

Looks great @JoeCalPo ! Weehawken is a solid name