Nuclear Weapons Theoretical Weight to Yield Limit?

bobbymike

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While perusing the Nuclear Weapons Archive - http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/Allbombs.html - I was looking at the various yield to weights of the warheads. It is difficult to ascertain the best warhead in terms of yield to weight as the weight category seems to include the bomb body or reentry vehicle weight.

So can the learned members of SP point me to research papers. books or to wherever on the web as I am interested in what the theoretical weigh/yield limits are for fusion weapons.

Thanks to anyone that can help.
 
"According to Dr. Theodore Taylor (physicist and former weapons designer), the practical limit for nuclear weapon yield to weight ratio is about 6 Kt/kg. Using the deployed weapon weight (10,670 lb), and a yield of 25 Mt, the Mk-41 achieved 5.2 Kt/kg. If we look at the test devices fired in Hardtack I however (see below), which lack such weighty and in principle unnecessary things as parachutes, we see weights 8,752 - 9,723 lb. Taylor's maximum achievable yield-to-weight ratio of 6 Kt/kg corresponds to a device weight of 9,190 lb; well within the weight range of these devices. "

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/B41.html
 
the Tsar Bomba aka Vanya, the biggies nuke of all time with 50 MT
it is three-stage Teller-Ulam design with mass of 27000 kg or 60000 lbs
and was a prototype for a 100 MT nuke
but in order to reduce the massive fallout after the test
the second stage uranium-238 was replace with lead
achievable yield-to-weight ratio is 1.85 Kt/kg (50MT) or 3.7 Kt/kg (100MT)

A two stage ICBM called UR-500 was build for it, but never used therefor it became the Proton rocket
 
Does anyone have a copy of the Scientific America article April 1987. Vol. 256, No. 4. pages 30-39 on "Third Generation Nuclear Weapons?" and can scan and post it? I would be eternally grateful.
 
bobbymike said:
Does anyone have a copy of the Scientific America article April 1987. Vol. 256, No. 4. pages 30-39 on "Third Generation Nuclear Weapons?" and can scan and post it? I would be eternally grateful.

I'll look when I get home. There's actually a book/paper out there called "4th Generation Nuclear Weapons" as well.
 
sferrin said:
bobbymike said:
Does anyone have a copy of the Scientific America article April 1987. Vol. 256, No. 4. pages 30-39 on "Third Generation Nuclear Weapons?" and can scan and post it? I would be eternally grateful.

I'll look when I get home. There's actually a book/paper out there called "4th Generation Nuclear Weapons" as well.

I have a photocopy of a Taylor SciAm paper on either 3rd or 4th gen nukes in my Orion files. I'll look it up.
 
You guys are the best, thanks ;D sferrin I have the 4th Generations publications, very interesting stuff. When I read it I just hoped the US was partaking in the necessary research to insure we remained on the cutting edge on all things nuclear.
 
Status of Los Alamos Nuke Experiments Uncertain Amid Wildfire Thursday, June 30, 2011 Los Alamos National Laboratory representatives said they may need days to better understand how the New Mexico site's closure due to a nearby wildfire has affected nuclear-weapon and other experiments taking place there, the Associated Press reported on Thursday (see GSN, June 29).
Personnel would work to investigate the status of various research efforts as soon as the Los Alamos complex reopens, laboratory director Charles McMillan said on Wednesday. The facility has been sealed since Monday, following an evacuation of the town of Los Alamos and other nearby areas.
Roughly 10,000 tests had to be shut down when the laboratory was closed, officials said.
"We have a range of projects, some of them have shorter time deliverable, some of them are years to decades," McMillan said.
------------------------------------------------------
Bolding mine - now this "sounds" positive (not the shutdown of course) as if they are still doing cutting edge nuclear weapons research or at least I hope that is what they are doing.
 
Quite an exhaustive 2013 article on the topic: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2013/12/23/kilotons-per-kilogram
yield-to-weight-600x504.png
 
Why do the (relatively) new and shiny W88s underperform the old and creaky W47 Polaris warheads by such a wide margin? W47Y2 (in RV) had a yield in the 1.2 megaton range and weighed 350 kg; W88 has a 500kt yield and weighs somewhat more (with RV).

Chuck Hansen claims that LLNL once tested a 100kt warhead (PEBBLE) in a 30-kg test package (this would make a killer A2A missile warhead or atomic demolition device).

W88 is apparently a much more compact warhead, is denser, and is conical in shape. It is also much more reliable (theoretically), houses a radar altimeter, and is hardened against nuclear effects. Is it just me, or did the ballistic, explosive sensitivity, and hardening improvements really take that much performance off the warhead?
 
Why do the (relatively) new and shiny W88s underperform the old and creaky W47 Polaris warheads by such a wide margin? W47Y2 (in RV) had a yield in the 1.2 megaton range and weighed 350 kg; W88 has a 500kt yield and weighs somewhat more (with RV).

Chuck Hansen claims that LLNL once tested a 100kt warhead (PEBBLE) in a 30-kg test package (this would make a killer A2A missile warhead or atomic demolition device).

W88 is apparently a much more compact warhead, is denser, and is conical in shape. It is also much more reliable (theoretically), houses a radar altimeter, and is hardened against nuclear effects. Is it just me, or did the ballistic, explosive sensitivity, and hardening improvements really take that much performance off the warhead?
W47Y2/Mk1 weighs 850 lbs (386 kg). Yield is 1200 kt. Yield to weight is 3.1 kt/kg.

W56/Mk11 weighs 830 lbs (377 kg). Yield is 1200 kt. Yield to weight is 3.2 kt/kg.

W58/Mk2 weighs 300 lbs (136 kg). Yield is 200 kt. Yield to weight is 1.5 kt/kg.

W88/Mk5 weighs 386 lbs (175 kg). Yield is 455–475 kt. Yield to weight is 2.6–2.7 kt/kg.

If you look at the W47Y2/Mk1, it was not even all that impressive of a yield to weight compared to later designs like the W56/Mk11, which outperformed the W47Y2/Mk1 despite being a longer-range ICBM warhead (which always weigh significantly more than shorter-range SLBM warheads due to multiple factors such as onboard spin rockets and higher heating loads) with multiple generations of weight-bloating hardening measures incorporated into it (my figures are for the Mk11C, so the impact of these are already accounted for).
Anyways, high-yield (megaton class) warheads have always had a significant pure yield to weight performance advantage over lower-yield (sub-megaton class) warheads, and it is incredibly misleading to compare the two disparate classes directly like this. They are two very different weapons with very different properties, capabilities, and roles.

If you compare two warheads of more comparable types/roles (the W58/Mk2 vs the W88/Mk5), you'll see that the gain in yield to weight for this class of warheads was actually enormous (1.5 kt/kg to 2.6–2.7 kt/kg).

The gap between the W47Y2/Mk1 and the W88/Mk5 is actually surprisingly small given the enormous differences in warhead weight, dimensions, volume, beta, accuracy, hardening, etc. The W88/Mk5 weighs literally less than half what the W47Y2/Mk1 does, and has less than half the yield, yet it has 84–87% of its yield to weight.

Yield to weight also isn't everything – yield to volume, beta, accuracy, hardening, reliability, maintainability, and other factors are far more important.

High yield warheads are very inefficient at transferring explosive energy to targets. Multiple lower yield MIRV warheads can actually deal out greater actual damage to area targets than single high yield warheads.

Low yield high accuracy warheads can actually directly outperform high yield low accuracy warheads in terms of SSPK, even against hardened targets.

The combination of these factors, well...

Let's just compare the two weapons systems, shall we?

The W47Y2/Mk1 on the Polaris A2 missile can achieve a 3700 meter CEP at 1500 nmi range. It delivers one 1200 kt warhead.

The W88/Mk5 on the Trident II D5 missile can achieve a 130 meter CEP at 4000 nmi range. It delivers eight 455–475 kt warheads.

For area targets, that's 3640–3800 kt of total yield (actually significantly more than that in equivalent yield after accounting for the greater efficiency of multiple small warheads vs single large warheads, but I don't feel like calculating that right now).

Yes, the individual warheads pack less than half the punch, but the 28.5x greater accuracy completely compensates for the decrease in yield (accuracy is everything) all on its own. Indeed, it is all but certain that the W88 actually has a substantially higher SSPK than the W47Y2.

Then on top of that, you can hit 8 times the number of discrete targeting points at 2.67 times longer distance with a single missile.

Who even cares about yield to weight when the "inferior" warhead unlocks these kinds of capabilities?



One last word of caution. The weight figures on the internet for most nuclear warheads are misleading at best. Many of them are flat-out wrong.

It is far too common to conflate warhead and RV weights.

Warhead weights are all but useless – RV weights are all that matter. A bare warhead has zero utility. It cannot even operate without the AF&F and boost gas system. Even with those extra systems, it remains largely useless as a practical weapon. It needs the aeroshell (and ballast) to survive reentry, and the spin rockets (for land RVs – naval RBs use a different system attached to the PBV) to ensure it doesn't drift off course during reentry. The RV weight includes every single component necessary to ensure the warhead operates as designed once it is released from the missile's PBV.

A common issue is confusion over the exact definition of warhead and RV weights. The warhead weight is the weight of the bare physics package alone. The RV weight is the weight of the entire RV (inclusive of warhead physics package, boost gas system, AF&F system, RV aeroshell, ballast, spin rockets, etc). Do not add the warhead and RV weights together – the RV weight already includes the weight of the warhead.

The conflation of warhead and RV weights has led to it becoming common to have a warhead weight incorrectly quoted as the RV weight (or less commonly, the RV weight quoted as the warhead weight). Oftentimes it is ambiguous which type of weight is being referred to. When in doubt, assume that ambiguous weight is the warhead weight unless explicitly specified otherwise.

An extremely huge issue is that certain sources have naively calculated RV weights by dividing missile throw weight by the number of RVs. This is not correct. Missile throw weight is the payload capacity of the missile's primary thrust stages. This payload capacity must include the weight of all components propelled by the primary thrust stages. For example, this includes the missile nosecone, the entire missile post boost vehicle (including the guidance computer and ISP/INS assemblies), the propellant for the post boost vehicle, the chaff used for countermeasures (when carried), etc. The warheads themselves are only a small proportion of this total payload, typically roughly 50%.

This issue with naively calculated RV weights is one of the biggest problems in this area, as certain otherwise highly reputable sources (such as the Nuclear Weapons Archive) list these inaccurately calculated figures for RV/warhead weights, which has led to many other sources uncritically republishing said figures, and countless others citing or relying on these inaccurate figures.

A similar issue of inaccurate figures spreading has occurred with other types of errors, especially so with the extremely common conflation of warhead and RV weights. Oftentimes the original publication is ambiguous as to which term is meant, especially to readers that are unfamiliar with the subject area. This has led to many absurd errors becoming far too common, including massive overestimations and underestimations of warhead/RV weights.

Even highly respected figures like Alex Wellerstein have fallen prey to these issues, with his kilotons per kilogram blog post (which was previously mentioned in this thread) and Yield to Weight explorer (the direct successor to that blog post) being prime examples of this.

Wikipedia is also highly problematic, as many articles uncritically quote blatantly inaccurate figures, or quote inaccurate figures alongside accurate ones, or mix and match figures wrongly, all of which creates even more confusion for readers not familiar with all the nuances and pitfalls in this subject area. Oftentimes it isn't even differentiated if the quoted figures refer to warhead or RV weight. Even when accurate figures are quoted by wikipedia articles, it is rare for them to be clearly labeled, and they are most commonly mentioned uncritically alongside blatantly inaccurate figures. It's also not uncommon to encounter cases where the original source was misinterpreted, most commonly resulting in warhead weights being listed as RV weights.

All of these issues that I have mentioned do not only affect warhead and RV weights. They also affect yield to weight figures.

In an ideal world, we would have accurate information on warhead weight and warhead yield to weight figures for all nuclear weapons. Sadly, for many weapons (especially bombs and modern RVs), only the weight of the entire bomb or RV is available. This poses obvious issues when it comes to comparing weapons systems using warhead yield to weight figures.

It's extremely common to see yield to weight figures derived from bare warhead weight presented alongside yield to weight figures derived from RV or bomb weights, with no distinction made between the two.

Even worse, most sources end up using inaccurate RV/warhead weight figures to calculate yield to weight, or use accurate figures but do not interpret/apply them correctly (e.g. using the accurate warhead weight as the RV weight or vice versa).

These errors are rarely uniformly applied, which only makes the problem more severe.

All of this leads to severe misconceptions and confusion about the actual capabilities of weapons systems.



Sources:
 
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Why do the (relatively) new and shiny W88s underperform the old and creaky W47 Polaris warheads by such a wide margin? W47Y2 (in RV) had a yield in the 1.2 megaton range and weighed 350 kg; W88 has a 500kt yield and weighs somewhat more (with RV).

Chuck Hansen claims that LLNL once tested a 100kt warhead (PEBBLE) in a 30-kg test package (this would make a killer A2A missile warhead or atomic demolition device).

W88 is apparently a much more compact warhead, is denser, and is conical in shape. It is also much more reliable (theoretically), houses a radar altimeter, and is hardened against nuclear effects. Is it just me, or did the ballistic, explosive sensitivity, and hardening improvements really take that much performance off the warhead?
Shapes greatly influence the squeeze efficiency.

A round shape is the most efficient. A football/rugby ball shape, like artillery shells, is nearly an order of magnitude of less efficient.
 

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