Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider (LRS-B)

It would be a waste of valuable testing time for the B-21 if there are only two currently flying to take part in the US 250 celebratory flypast. Better let them get the testing done and wait until there are more B-21s available before we even think of letting them take part in any flypast.
 
More than likely Forest Green that they won't be co-pilots unlike in the B-2, wonder why the sudden change?
 
I was only halfway kidding about the B-21 loosely being a modern FB-111H analog of sorts (two crew, two engines, not a "heavy" bomber, but not a "light" bomber either, etc.), albeit having totally different mission profiles.
 
FlyGuy369 said:
One has to think if the pilotage aspect of flying the Raider has been so simplified that workload and specialty training arent really needed with normal pilot training.
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Especially at cruise where aside from emergencies getting crew rest for long flight legs might be the most common scenario of the plane being flown from the right seat. Hope there’s room for a Nespresso machine and a beach chair in back!
 
The B-21 will have a Pilot and a Mission commander, both fully trained and capable pilots just like the B-2. The mission commander is the higher ranking officer due to experience and hours.
 

USAF Decides Against Flying B-21 Raiders With Just One Pilot​

The Air Force has made a formal decision about how the B-21 will be crewed as it pushes to start fielding the bombers next year.
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https://www.twz.com/air/usaf-decides-against-flying-b-21-raiders-with-just-one-pilot
The U.S. Air Force has officially decided that the B-21 Raider will be flown by a crew consisting of two pilots, just like the B-2 is today. The service had previously considered operating the bomber with just one pilot alongside a weapon systems officer (WSO), or ‘wizzo.’ The plan is now to transition some number of qualifying WSOs and combat systems officers (CSOs) to become pilots for the future B-21 fleet.

The formal announcement about the standard two-pilot crew complement for the B-21 came yesterday.
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So 2 crew total.
 
Once NG is finished using the B-21 ground test-articles I wonder if one or both of them will be refurbished and displayed as museum exhibits?
 
Forest Green said:

USAF Decides Against Flying B-21 Raiders With Just One Pilot​


https://www.twz.com/air/usaf-decides-against-flying-b-21-raiders-with-just-one-pilot


So 2 crew total.
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2 crew was guaranteed due to the nuclear mission. The nuclear Two Person Concept requires all actions done on nuclear weapons or nuclear command and control systems to be done by two people both of whom know what is supposed to happen. Messages releasing nuclear weapons need to be independently verified by two officers.

2 pilots was highly likely due to mission time lengths. 6000nmi range (unrefueled!) at 600knots means 10 hours in the air. Or more, if we're getting into midair refueling. IIRC some of the B-2s ended up doing a 34hr long mission. Pilots must have been utterly wiped out after that!
 
NMaude said:
Once NG is finished using the B-21 ground test-articles I wonder if one or both of them will be refurbished and displayed as museum exhibits?
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I assume they possess a lot of steathy classified stuff even on the airframe so I doubt you'd see the real end version but perhaps with all the classified things removed yes.
 
Scott Kenny said:
2 crew was guaranteed due to the nuclear mission. The nuclear Two Person Concept requires all actions done on nuclear weapons or nuclear command and control systems to be done by two people both of whom know what is supposed to happen. Messages releasing nuclear weapons need to be independently verified by two officers.
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How does this work with the F-35?
 
Aegrotare said:
How does this work with the F-35?
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Is the F35 authorized to drop nukes(not like technically authorized but as a primary platform)? even if it does I assume it would also need access to ground control or a buddy F35. In the absolute worst case scenario it would be a solo mission
 
Aegrotare said:
How does this work with the F-35?
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lmaoxd said:
Is the F35 authorized to drop nukes(not like technically authorized but as a primary platform)? even if it does I assume it would also need access to ground control or a buddy F35. In the absolute worst case scenario it would be a solo mission
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The Air Force and the Navy have been flying single-seat fighters with nuclear weapons since the 1950s. All of the NATO nuclear sharing is done with single-seat F-16s and F-35s, and that's been going on since the 1960s.
 
In the case of tactical nukes delivered by fighters, I think authorization typically would occur before take off.
 
Not James Stockdale said:
All of the NATO nuclear sharing is done with single-seat F-16s and F-35s
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Except PA-200 Tornado.
But yes, all NATO nuclear sharing tactical nukes have to be cleared before take-off by US ground personel iirc.

TomS said:
The debate was never over how many people, it was just over whether the second would be a qualified pilot or just a weapons system officer.
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Yes, USAF previously wanted to operate the B-21 with just one trained pilot plus a WSO. In that scenario, the WSO presumably would have received some basic training so the pilot could have a nap. Of course, that’s no longer an issue now with two trained pilots.
 
Typically WSO were pilot wash outs back in the day; not sure if that changed. They would not be completely unaware of how to fly a plane.
 
Did not know that WSO's were pilots that did not make the grade, I had always thought that WSO's were trained especially for the mission Josh_TN.
 
FighterJock said:
Did not know that WSO's were pilots that did not make the grade, I had always thought that WSO's were trained especially for the mission Josh_TN.
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They were specially trained as WSOs, but to use a college analogy they've only completed their bachelor's degree and weren't accepted into a pilot's graduate program. So they have to settle for a PhD in WSO.
 
So the WSO's will have to go back to school to complete their pilot's graduate program and be able to fly the B-21.
 
Sundog said:
Yes, That's what they're doing. It's a more reliable lower weight solution to the split drag rudders used on the B-2.
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The B-21 may also be using techniques like a bell-shaped spanwise lift distribution so that it has a more natural proverse yaw tendency, which may also reduce the need for something like split rudders/ailerons. Visually when looking from the front, the B-21 does seem to have a greater negative-incidence downward twist at its wingtips compared to the B-2.
 
icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
The B-21 may also be using techniques like a bell-shaped spanwise lift distribution so that it has a more natural proverse yaw tendency, which may also reduce the need for something like split rudders/ailerons. Visually when looking from the front, the B-21 does seem to have a greater negative-incidence downward twist at its wingtips compared to the B-2.
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Indeed, it is known as the Bell spanload or Prandtl-D. As opposed to the elliptical spanload. It is believed this is what birds use. This paper is a nice reference. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20160003578/downloads/20160003578.pdf
 
icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
The B-21 may also be using techniques like a bell-shaped spanwise lift distribution so that it has a more natural proverse yaw tendency, which may also reduce the need for something like split rudders/ailerons. Visually when looking from the front, the B-21 does seem to have a greater negative-incidence downward twist at its wingtips compared to the B-2.
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Appears to be a page out of the Voynich Manuscript.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
The question was "pilot and WSO" or "two pilots". Always two there are.
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As an absolute, staunch, proud agnostic of all things (inter)national military administration, I sure hope any WSO would be able to operate any air vehicle in a pinch. If that were not to be the case, I would have to question the wisdom of the military spending my taxpayer money...
 
martinbayer said:
As an absolute, staunch, proud agnostic of all things (inter)national military administration, I sure hope any WSO would be able to operate any air vehicle in a pinch. If that were not to be the case, I would have to question the wisdom of the military spending my taxpayer money...
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You're going to be shocked to discover that some planes with WSOs don't even have dual controls. Like the F-14; no flight controls for the backseater.
 
For example in the B-2, either left or right seats have access to all display pages (ref. numerous, public B-2 cockpit images) for flying the jet as well as for the mission and weapons.
 
TomS said:
You're going to be shocked to discover that some planes with WSOs don't even have dual controls. Like the F-14; no flight controls for the backseater.
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Gotta be frustrating to a back-seater whose pilot is incapacitated. "Whelp, I guess we're punchin' out."
 

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