Mirage IIIK

Hood

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Having looked at FSP:1 last night I agree with Paul's assessment. The Mirage IIIK is an Atar 9K powered derivative of the III F2 but with smaller dimensions, presumably for export. Who or what it was aimed for is speculation, but it could carry Martel and was a two-seater so it seems to be aimed at the high-end of the market.

Talk about a Spey-powered Mirage III for the UK probably is a mirage! With very scanty, possibly newspaper report origins, I'm sceptical about its existence.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Hood said:
Talk about a Spey-powered Mirage III for the UK probably is a mirage! With very scanty, possibly newspaper report origins, I'm sceptical about its existence.

Disagree. The Daily Telegraph Aviation Correspondent in the 1960s was Derek Wood, author of 'The Narrow Margin', and 'Project Cancelled', who was pretty well informed, I wouldn't doubt there is some substance to it, albeit fleeting. My guess is it *was* a Spey-engined Mirage IIIK or Mirage IIIE2, i.e. a swept wing, ground attack, early version of what became Mirage F1, suggested as a Hunter replacement. Whether it was actually submitted is another story - many designs go no further than a drawing, and even projects with reasonable effort may result in no bid.
 

TsrJoe

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would the BAC. P.39 Mirage based studies have some relevance
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
I've not seen any detail on P.39?

Here it's my dear Paul.
 

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uk 75

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The saga of the attempts by the RAF to replace its ground attack Hunters and the Royal Navy's to replace the Sea Vixen in the early 1960s has been only patchily covered.
So many projects and companies tried to get in on the act.
I find these the most fascinating of the what-ifs.
The Mirage IIIK was one of the more sensible contenders.
 

Pioneer

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My goodness hesham, some of those P. 39 designs have a ridiculous amount of lift engines incorporated into them, whichvI would think emphasised V/TOL as its principle role, as opposed to an actual strike mission :eek:

Thanks for sharing the diagram!

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Pioneer
 

Mike Pryce

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uk 75 said:
The saga of the attempts by the RAF to replace its ground attack Hunters and the Royal Navy's to replace the Sea Vixen in the early 1960s has been only patchily covered.
So many projects and companies tried to get in on the act.
I find these the most fascinating of the what-ifs.
The Mirage IIIK was one of the more sensible contenders.

The answer was the P1154, which has been pretty well covered. The P.39 studies were mostly very brief. the question was 'how many lift/propulsion engines?" Turns out the answer is one, but they did not hold the patents.
 

Pioneer

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My goodness hesham, some of those P. 39 designs have a ridiculous amount of lift engines incorporated into them, whichvI would think emphasised V/TOL as its principle role, as opposed to an actual strike mission :eek:

Thanks for sharing the diagram!

Regards
Pioneer
 

Michel Van

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Finally reading JC Carbonel excellent book "French Secret project 1"

I start to ponder about Mirage IIIK Data from may 1965
it from it size, mass and arms, its match almost aircraft like SEPECAT Jaguar or Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet.
except it's Mach 2.4 top speed.

in Mid 1960s were several European Air-forces looking for new Aircraft
British wanted an advanced supersonic jet trainer
Germans and French looking for a cheap, subsonic dual role trainer and light attack aircraft. (french: ECAT)
A Memorandum of Understanding was signed in May 1965 by French and British to develop two aircraft, a trainer based on the ECAT, and the larger AFVG.

Here the Mirage IIIK could be a proposal to British to French for ECAT ?
 

TsrJoe

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this might help ? ... Flying Review International, 19/8, April 1964
 

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Yankee_Aviator

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Unfortunately the UK and France were both
looking at VSTOL and VG as panaceas.
The Mirage F2 with Rolls Royce engines could have
been a European Phantom if it had come through the
middle. A real what-if.
It might even have been able to operate off carriers.
The AFVG, or even the Tornado could have been a European Phantom if an effort had been made to have a single type capable of strike and interceptor missions rather than two separate dedicated airframes, and if the M45G/RB.199 had been a bit more optimized for ACM. Overall I do see a missed opportunity for a jointly developed, carrier based multirole fighter comparable to the Phantom, developed by the two countries with aircraft carrier-equipped navies in Europe. However I do also see the merit of a Spey-powered, carrier based Mirage F2. An All-French airframe with all-British engines might have been the way to go.
 

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