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McDonnell Douglas MD-12

sferrin

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I was really hoping to see a 3-engine MD-12. IIRC it was suppose to be powered by 3 90,000lb thrust class engines.
 

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Matej

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Maybe it could look nice, but I think that this design doesnt have a chance against Boeing B777. Since the time when two enigned planes can fly cross Atlantic ocean, three engines are obsolete.
 

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TinWing

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sferrin said:
I was really hoping to see a 3-engine MD-12. IIRC it was suppose to be powered by 3 90,000lb thrust class engines.
The definitive MD-12 was very similar to the Airbus A380. I can't explain why the MD-12 wasn't launched while the A380 got the nod only a few years later. Perhaps Airbus just had a more aggressive sales team.
 

sferrin

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Matej said:
Maybe it could look nice, but I think that this design doesnt have a chance against Boeing B777. Since the time when two enigned planes can fly cross Atlantic ocean, three engines are obsolete.
It would have been bigger than the 777. The MD-12 was suppose to be bigger than even the 747.
 

Matej

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Wait. Are you speaking about early, 3 engined MD-12, or later four engined project, that had the same designation? I said this about three engined MD-10 successor.
 

sferrin

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Matej said:
Wait. Are you speaking about early, 3 engined MD-12, or later four engined project, that had the same designation? I said this about three engined MD-10 successor.
It's been a while and I'm going strictly by memory but I could swear even the 3-engine one was suppose to be bigger. As I recall it was suppose to use 3 90,000lb thrust engines and been sized accordingly.
 

Matej

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Interesting. I dont have any data about this proposals, only from pictures it looked to me as like B777 sized.
 

sferrin

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Matej said:
Interesting. I dont have any data about this proposals, only from pictures it looked to me as like B777 sized.
Just ran this down. Said it would fit up to 515 passengers.

"Farnborough, September 5 -- McDonnell Douglas produced plans for the new high capacity, long range jetliner at Farnborough. Designated the MD-XX, the aircraft is planned in two initial models -- a 375-stretch version and a long range variant. Both models will take benefit from a newly developed, high efficiency wing with increased span and total area.
While Douglas is officially offering the aircraft yet, it expects to later this year, and plans a formal launch for early 1997.

The stretch version of the MD-XX will have the same or longer range than the MD-11, but with an additional 25% capacity. The aircraft can be configured to seat between 375 and 515 passengers.

The extended range version will be able to travel 20% greater distances than the MD-11 with 309 passengers. Maximum range for the ER version is expected to be more than 7,000 nautical miles.

The new wing design has a span of 213 feet, and a total area of 5,200 square feet. It takes advantage of a patented air foil shape to make it, according to Douglas MD-XX Program VP-General Manager Walt Orlowski, "the most aerodynamically efficient wing in the airline industry."

Douglas expects to seek board approval to offer the new aircraft soon, with target deliveries around the end of the year 2000."

http://www.aeroworldnet.com/fls24.htm

MD-XX: Span 213, Area 5200
777-300: Span 199, Area 4605
 

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overscan

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Thats from September 5, 1996 (for reference)
 

flateric

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Perfect what-if...
 

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Antonio

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Wow, thanks Gregory. This photoshoped MD12 it's a beauty!!!
 
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joncarrfarrelly

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TinWing said:
sferrin said:
I was really hoping to see a 3-engine MD-12. IIRC it was suppose to be powered by 3 90,000lb thrust class engines.
The definitive MD-12 was very similar to the Airbus A380. I can't explain why the MD-12 wasn't launched while the A380 got the nod only a few years later. Perhaps Airbus just had a more aggressive sales team.
Really simple, to the McDonnel boys in St.Louis the Douglas aircraft division was just there to generate cash flow, thus the concentration on derivatives rather than new designs...which doomed the commercial end of the business. The same mindset infected Boeing for a few years after the merger...thankfully it passed.


Cheers, Jon
 

flateric

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Found cool site of MD-11 plus undeveloped models plus MD-12. Made with real love.
http://md-eleven.net/MD11-MD12-undeveloped-models
 

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flateric

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From Flight International archives, April 1-7 1992 and 6-12 May, 1992, respectively.
Here goes 3-engined version of 'big' MD-12 Sferrin was talking of, and 2-engined as well...
 

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chornedsnorkack

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flateric said:
more stuff
Observe the cross-section!

When you add the width of middle deck seat blocks and aisles, you end up with 272 inches usable cabin width. Compare 239,5 on the Boeing 747, and roughly 248 inches on A380.

MD-12 is appreciably wider than A380. For that reason, the coach seating is 11 abreast 3-5-3, while satisfactory aisle access in business class is provided by having 3 aisles in 2-2-2-2 seating...
 

circle-5

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Both these models are at the same scale. The MD-12 nearly had a 10-year head-start. Very sad.
 

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Triton

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McDonnell Douglas MD-12

Type: High-capacity long-range airliner.

Program:
Definitive four-engined layout announced April 1992; development delayed following failure to conclude arrangement with Taiwan Aerospace and prolonged down-turn profitability in airline industry; new risk sharing partners or partner group being sought; low level of development activity in 1994.

Current versions: Initially offered in Long-Range, High-Capacity, Freight, and Combi versions; later to be offered in Stretch Medium Range, Stretch Long Range, and Twin Engined versions.

Customers: No firm customers announced by mid-1995.

Design features: Full-length two-deck fuselage seating up to 579 passengers in three classes; range would allow New York to Tapei, Singapore to Zurich, or Los Angeles to Bangkok non-stop. Wing of advanced technology with 35 degree sweep; wing span maintains operational clearance with current taxiway separation standards; seat-mile costs to be 15 percent less than those of current largest airliner.

Flying controls: Fly-by-wire control system with all-glass cockpit; normal ailerons assisted by outboard spoiler panels; four elevator sections; rudders divided into fore and aft and upper and lower panels; total seven spoilers per wing for lateral control. airbrakes and lift dumping; six leading-edge slat and three flap sections per wing.

Landing gear:
Five main legs to carry one four-wheel bogie; inner legs retract into fuselage, outers into wing and fuselage; twin wheel nose leg.

Power plant:
Four turbofans; choice of GE CF6-80C2D1F (273.6 kN; 61,500 lb st each) or Pratt & Whitney PW4462 (275.9 kN; 62,000 lb st each) or Rolls Royce Trent 764 (284.7 kN; 64,000 lb st each).

Accommodation:
Two-pilot flight deck on main deck level; possible cross-qualifying with MD-11; crew rest compartment at front end of main upper decks; cabin crew rest area at aft end of upper deck; main deck has two or three aisles; upper deck has two aisles; Long-Range interior seats 481 passengers in three-class layout, including 176 economy class on shortened upper deck plus 24 first class, 90 business class, and 191 economy class on main deck; High Capacity version seats as many as 579 passengers with 107 business class and 93 economy class on full-length upper deck plus 30 first class and 349 economy class on main deck; Combi carriers maximum of nine freight pallets on main deck and 428 passengers; Freight accommodates cargo on both main and upper decks; underfloor freight compartments hold two LD3 containers abreast; eight passenger doors on main deck and four escape doors on upper deck; one stairway standard and second available for High Capacity.

Dimensions external
Wing span: 69.80 m (229 ft 0 in)
Wing aspect ratio: 7.76
Length fuselage: 61.32 m (201 ft 2 in)
Length overall: 63.93 m (209 ft 6 in)
Height overall: 23.32 m (76 ft 6 in)
Tailplane span: 25.2 m (82 ft 5 in)
Wheel track: 11.48 m (37 ft 8 in)
Wheelbase: 26.82 m (88 ft 0 in)

Dimensions internal

Main deck width at floor: 6.71 m (22 ft 0 in)
Upper deck width at shoulder: 5.33 m (17 ft 6 in)
Underfloor freight volume: 139.3 cu m (4,920 cu ft)
Main deck freight volume: 538.9 cu m (19,030 cu ft)
Upper deck freight volume: 198.2 cu m (7,000 cu ft)

Areas
Wings, gross: 628.1 sq m (6,761.0 sq ft)
Vertical tail surfaces (total): 108.7 sq m (1,170.0 sq ft)
Horizontal tail surfaces: 140.3 sq m (1,510.0 sq ft)

Weights and loadings

Operating weight empty Long Range: 200,490 kg (442,000 lb)
Operating weight empty High Capacity: 208,655 kg (460,000 lb)
Operating weight empty Combi: 209,105 kg (461,000 lb)
Operating weight empty Freighter: 191,870 kg (423,000 lb)
Weight limited payload, Freighter only: 143,790 kg (317,000 lb)
Max T-O weight Long Range, High Capacity. Combi, Freighter: 463,570 kg (1,022,000 lb)
Max zero-fuel weight Long Range, High Capacity: 290,300 kg (640,000 lb)
Max zero-fuel weight Combi: 297,100 kg (655,000 lb)
Max zero-fuel weight Freighter: 328,855 kg (725,000 lb)
Max landing weight Long Range, High Capacity: 308,445 kg (680,000 lb)
Max landing weight Combi: 315,245 kg (695,000 lb)
Max landing weight Freighter: 347,000 kg (765,000 lb)
Max wing loading: 738 kg/sq m (151.2 lb/sq ft)

Performance (estimated)

Cruising Mach number: 0.85
FAA T-O field length (ISA + 30 degrees Celsius): 3,170 m (10,400 ft)

FAA landing field length(S/L)
Long Range, High Capacity: 2,683 m (8,800 ft)
Combi: 2,744 m (9,000 ft)
Freighter: 2,926 m (9,600 ft)

Design range (FAA international reserves and full passenger payload: freight payload on Combi and Freighter at 136 kg/cu m; 8.5 lb/cu ft)
Long Range: 8,090 n miles (14,982 km; 9,309 miles)
High Capacity: 7,130 n miles (13,204 km; 8,205 miles)
Combi: 6,360 n miles (11,778 km; 7,319 miles)
Freighter: 5,000 n miles (9,260 km; 5,753 miles)

Source: Jackson, Paul ed. Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1995-96 Jane's Information Group Ltd 1995 pp. 607-608.

Artist's impression of McDonnell Douglas MD-12 with full-length upper deck circa 1992.
Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gorbidog/887358189
 

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Triton

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McDonnell Douglas studied improved, stretched versions of the MD-11 trijet, named MD-12 and MD-12X with a possible lower-front passenger deck with panoramic windows. The McDonnell Douglas Company (MDC) board of directors agreed in October 1991 to offer the MD-12X design to airlines. MD-12X had a length of 237 ft 11 in (72 m) and wingspan of 212.5 ft (64.39 m). In November 1991, McDonnell Douglas and Taiwan Aerospace Corporation (TAC) signed a Memorandum of Understanding to form a company to produce the new design. The new company would have McDonnell Douglas as the majority shareholder (51%) with Taiwan Aerospace (40%) and other Asian companies (9%) having the remaining shares.

The design then grew into the much larger MD-12 with four engines and two passenger decks extending the length of the fuselage. The length for the main MD-12 variants was 208 ft (63 m) and had a wingspan of 213 ft (64.54 m). The fuselage was 24 ft 3 in (7.4 m) high by 27 ft 11 in (8.5 m). McDonnell Douglas unveiled its MD-12 design in April 1992. First flight on the MD-12 was to be in late 1995, with delivery in 1997. This was similar in concept to the Airbus A3XX and Boeing NLA, and would have been larger than the Boeing 747 with which it would have directly competed. Douglas Aircraft had also studied double-decker designs in the 1960s for the DC-10. See: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4441.0.html

Despite aggressive marketing and initial excitement, especially in the aviation press, no orders were placed for the aircraft. MDC lacked the resources after Taiwan Aerospace left the project. A new double deck widebody has proved to be extremely expensive and complex to develop, even for the remaining aerospace giants Boeing and Airbus. The massive Airbus A380, a similar concept to the MD-12, has been successfully brought to fruition. MDC cancelled the MD-12 in 1996.

Between May 1991 and 1996, MDC was also researching a twin-engined medium-range airliner with seating capacity of between 170 to 220 passengers it named "MD-XX". I am still researching whether the MD-XX was ever offered for sale as the MD-11 Twin.

With the MD-12 program over, McDonnell Douglas focused on 300-400 seat MD-11 derivatives. At the 1996 Farnborough International Air Show, the company presented plans for a new trijet with high-seating and long-range it also named "MD-XX". The MD-XX was offered in two variants; MD-XX Stretch with a longer fuselage and MD-XX LR for longer range. Both MD-XX variant designs had 213 ft (64.5 m) wingspan, the same as MD-12. The MD-XX Stretch was lengthened 32 ft (9.7 m) over the MD-11 and had seating for 375 in a typical 3-class arrangement and 515 in all economy seating. Its range was to be 7,020 nmi (13,000 km). The MD-XX LR was the same length as the MD-11, had seating for 309 in a typical 3-class arrangement and featured a range of 8,320 nmi (15,400 km). However, the MDC board of directors decided to end the MD-XX program in October 1996. The investment in the program was too large for the company.

On August 1, 1997, McDonnell Douglas Company merged with the Boeing Company. Boeing decided that MD-11 production would continue, though only for the freighter variant. However, in 1998 Boeing announced it would end MD-11 production after filling current orders.

Source: Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1992-1993
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_MD-12
 

V8Interceptor

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I've never seen any documentation of a proposed twinjet variant of the MD-11...that would seem to be a logical development and MD did do design work on a shortened twinjet DC-10...
 

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Guys, I found this 3-view on my computer. I don't know the source, but I have a very strong suspicion that it came from "Air International" of many years ago, when they did a several page coverage of all the large airliners currently in operation and a few projects. I do have the mag but have not had time to look for it buried somewhere in my actually relatively modest collection.
 

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sferrin

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I love that MD-12XX Stretch. Graceful like an A340-600 and not a wallowing whale like the A380 and most others.
 

sferrin

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circle-5 said:
Both these models are at the same scale. The MD-12 nearly had a 10-year head-start. Very sad.
That picture's filename suggests it's a small version. Any chance of a larger? :)
 

circle-5

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The file is too big to post here (2.5MB) so just send me a PM with your address and I will gladly forward it.
 

chornedsnorkack

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sferrin said:
I love that MD-12XX Stretch. Graceful like an A340-600 and not a wallowing whale like the A380 and most others.
The vital numbers for size:

MD-XX stretch: 71,2 m long, 6,02 m wide and high

A340-600: 75,3 m long, 5,64 m wide and high
B777-300ER: 73,9 m long, 6,20 m wide and high

A380-800: 73,0 m long, 7,14 m wide, 8,56 m high

Which of them would look better?

Which of them would you rather fly?
 

sferrin

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chornedsnorkack said:
sferrin said:
I love that MD-12XX Stretch. Graceful like an A340-600 and not a wallowing whale like the A380 and most others.
The vital numbers for size:

MD-XX stretch: 71,2 m long, 6,02 m wide and high

A340-600: 75,3 m long, 5,64 m wide and high
B777-300ER: 73,9 m long, 6,20 m wide and high

A380-800: 73,0 m long, 7,14 m wide, 8,56 m high

Which of them would look better?

Which of them would you rather fly?
Both are subjective. As I said I like the MD-12XX Stretch and the A340-600.
 

chornedsnorkack

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Triton said:
McDonnell Douglas studied improved, stretched versions of the MD-11 trijet, named MD-12 and MD-12X with a possible lower-front passenger deck with panoramic windows. The McDonnell Douglas Company (MDC) board of directors agreed in October 1991 to offer the MD-12X design to airlines. MD-12X had a length of 237 ft 11 in (72 m) and wingspan of 212.5 ft (64.39 m).
Triton said:
With the MD-12 program over, McDonnell Douglas focused on 300-400 seat MD-11 derivatives. At the 1996 Farnborough International Air Show, the company presented plans for a new trijet with high-seating and long-range it also named "MD-XX". The MD-XX was offered in two variants; MD-XX Stretch with a longer fuselage and MD-XX LR for longer range. Both MD-XX variant designs had 213 ft (64.5 m) wingspan, the same as MD-12. The MD-XX Stretch was lengthened 32 ft (9.7 m) over the MD-11 and had seating for 375 in a typical 3-class arrangement and 515 in all economy seating. Its range was to be 7,020 nmi (13,000 km).
How different was MD-XX from MD-12X?
 

flateric

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http://www.google.com/patents/download/5540404_Double_decked_aircraft_with_plug.pdf?id=n-ogAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U2kJAuEU2Ds-fG_l9Nx6ul6L7YrMg
 

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I am interested to find out if any U.S airlines went after the MD-12? Did Mcdonnell Douglas release any pictures or models with an Airline's paint scheme on it? I did see the Saudi model a couple posts above. Wondering if there is more out there.


-David
 

Mark Nankivil

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Greetings All -

Here's a photo of a MD-12 display model at the Boeing Prologue Room here in St. Louis.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Stargazer2006

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Nice. Bet you've got a lot more pics in store... Can't wait!
 
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