Lockheed P-80A(F-80) armament testbed

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P-80A-1-LO test aircraft (s/n 44-85044) with twin 0.5 in (12,7 mm) machine guns in oblique mount, similar to the World War II German Schräge Musik arrangement, to study the ability to attack bombers from below.


Photo credits: USAF via Wikimedia Commons.


According to www.airwar.ru, tests indicated that the system needed a second crew member for more efficient control, but on the whole it proved too complicated.
 

Jemiba

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Seems, that the guns could be rotated vertically, similar to the MiG-17SN/
Projekt SN (the typical "schräge Musik was fixed, I think), although in the
upper hemisphere only, whereas the MiG could depress their guns. But the
soviets made the same experience, as Lockheed:practice and theory often
are completely different and aiming such guns is difficult !
(Photo from Squadron/Signal N°125)
 

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Tailspin Turtle

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The Navy embarked on a more ambitious approach which wasn't practical given the weight and volume of electronics required at the time to implement the fire control solution:
 

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Justo Miranda

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MiG 17 SN additional info
 

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Pioneer

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Hi gents

I had a quick search and could not find this in any forums - so here we go

It a Lockheed F-80 Shooting Star used to test an oblique-mount of 2 x 12.7mm MG's arrangement - Very similar to German WWII Schräge Musik mount of WWII

Does anyone have anything more on this experiment?
And what was the results of the test?
Personally I think the 12.7mm MG a bit light for taking down Soviet Tu-4 'Bulls'

Regards
Pioneer
 

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archipeppe

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Justo Miranda said:
MiG 17 SN additional info

I've never seen such odd MiG 17. The aircraft had two side air intakes, a long nose and different canopy (it seems sleeker than usual MiG 17's one).
It was only one prototype or there were a small series of this MiG 17 variant?
Where is possible to find out further informations?
 

Justo Miranda

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Prototype only...from DOCAVIA Nº33 ...in french :)
 

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Avimimus

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archipeppe said:
Justo Miranda said:
MiG 17 SN additional info

I've never seen such odd MiG 17. The aircraft had two side air intakes, a long nose and different canopy (it seems sleeker than usual MiG 17's one).
It was only one prototype or there were a small series of this MiG 17 variant?
Where is possible to find out further informations?

If I recall it never made it past the prototype stage. There were problems with the engine inlet design (there was a lot of trouble during this period with anything other than "gaping mouth" designs). Another major problem was the fact that the guns were well forward of the centre of gravity of the aircraft: When they were fired obliquely the aircraft turned in the opposite direction. :)
 

borovik

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MiG 17 SN additional info
 

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robunos

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The Navy embarked on a more ambitious approach...

Don't forget the USAF version! Martin D-1 system mounted on an F-89A.

From 'Aerofax datagraph 8: Northrop F-89 Scorpion', page 61.


cheers,
Robin.
 

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archipeppe

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robunos said:
The Navy embarked on a more ambitious approach...

Don't forget the USAF version! Martin D-1 system mounted on an F-89A.

From 'Aerofax datagraph 8: Northrop F-89 Scorpion', page 61.


cheers,
Robin.


Really interesting!!!!!

Is that turret the same one used on B-52s?
 

robunos

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Is that turret the same one used on B-52s?

No, the Martin D-1 carries 4x 20mm cannon, the B-52 tail turret fits 4x .50cal machine guns,
see below.


cheers,
Robin.
 

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archipeppe

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robunos said:
No, the Martin D-1 carries 4x 20mm cannon, the B-52 tail turret fits 4x .50cal machine guns,

Oh I see, many thanks robunos!
 

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