Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

timmymagic said:
Low cost drone interceptors will be part of the mix, but the ability to deal with higher speed drones and cruise missiles that are likely to be included in any barrage is still there. It's what the Russian's do...mix them up to saturate defences.
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IMO that just means the mix of interceptors changes all the way up to traditional GBAD. Burning hours on 5th gen jets seems a waste of those assets that would be better tasked going after the drone/cruise missile launch sites or storage facilities etc.

Not James Stockdale said:
I think the key to counter-Shahed air defense is the airborne component. A large, subsonic platform like the MQ-25 could carry a powerful sensor, a large load of AGR-20s, and can loiter in a sector for a long time.
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Can't see an MQ-25 being useful at all in that role, way too slow and cumbersome for that task. A T-7 or other advanced trainer might be a better option.
Not James Stockdale said:
Ground-based defenses are very manpower-intensive because the sensors and effectors have a shorter range. The Ukrainians can support that (and they don't have the ability to field large aircraft near the FLOC), but someone like Belgium can't. An effective aerial component would relegate ground-based defenses to the point defense role, which they are better suited for.
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That is an application of AI. It is manpower intensive today but doesn't need to be.
 
Ozair said:
It is a valid point but I think that ship has sailed. IMO the future of anti-drone isn't fighter based rockets but the fleet of low cost anti-drone interceptors Ukraine is deploying today. By the time F-35 received APKWS there may be enough anti-drone interceptors available to make the integration time and cost a waste.
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What about that laser pod that was being developed a while back.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...e-killing-air-to-air-laser-is-in-development/
 
timmymagic said:
Can LM react though? Deep as they are in TR-3 and Block IV hell?
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The big issue with TR3BV has been the programming the thing.

Cause the Military had some insane requirements and very strict on documentation for VERY GOOD REASON. But that does come at the cost of many kicking back and failure

Comparity APKS is a Rocket pod that fire Laserguide rockets.

The F35 already has the laser which is similar to the Sniper Pod that the F15 and F16 use for Sharad Sniping and I bet the F35 system can already Track them as well

Big issue be getting the Pod to play nice and not send a rocket into the jet.

And that requires test flights and like.
 
IMO stealth fighters are better on the offensive tracking launch infrastructure. No need to turn F-35 and F-22 into another CUAS system. There will be hundreds of other fighters available for shooting down drones.
Also, anti-drone drones based defense are inherently static. You need prepositioned launchers, radars etc.. as available operators. It´s very heavy on infrastructure and resources. That can only be justified for choke points and High Value targets. Fighter are, as they stands since the inception of military aviation, the true mean for a dynamic form of defense. Not only for going after faster/bigger drones, but mostly for area suppression and CUAS-CAP. Let the fighters do what they do best and do not take budget allocation from under their feet.
 
lancer21 said:
After considering the lack of maneuvering/flares, imo must have been an EO/IR SAM, and eyeballing the size of the SAM compared to the F-35, not a small one, i'm thinking of the 9th Dey SAM, which does have IR/EO SAM variants. Of course, i might be wrong.
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In any case it seems that DAS proved to be very unreliable system (not that this wasn't mentioned long before this has happened) because no matter what type of the homing head was in question, it should be able to detect the missile plume, or the skin heat from the friction.

This is how such system are suppose to work:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4_tq3ZfFzE


At 0:27 we can see the perfect ambush, and multiple IR missile launches from extremely short distance and almost in eye level (missile doesn't need to travel for a long distance and gain altitude).
Helicopters that had MAWS/DIRCM combo reacted automatically and instantly, forcing the missiles to miss.
Nothing of that has happened in the F-35 video.
 
PeregrineFalcon said:
In any case it seems that DAS proved to be very unreliable system (not that this wasn't mentioned long before this has happened) because no matter what type of the homing head was in question, it should be able to detect the missile plume, or the skin heat from the friction.

This is how such system are suppose to work:



At 0:27 we can see the perfect ambush, and multiple IR missile launches from extremely short distance and almost in eye level (missile doesn't need to travel for a long distance and gain altitude).
Helicopters that had MAWS/DIRCM combo reacted automatically and instantly, forcing the missiles to miss.
Nothing of that has happened in the F-35 video.
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You are making multiple logical leaps without the evidence to support the claims. We may get more information but way too early to be drawing those conclusions.
 
lmaoxd said:
hmm? isnt the F35 being mass produced for cheap ? like 90M USD or somehting incredible like that simply because of economies of scale ? ik 90M isnt cheap but the US budget is like 900B USD. I Dont think its that much of an issue lol
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Check my post below:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ii-joint-strike-fighter-jsf.17732/post-860924

Furthermore, the F-35 is well known for its considerably high operational costs; the total lifecycle cost per aircraft is ~400 million dollars according to what's been disclosed by multiple operators so far.
 

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NMaude said:
Since the F-35A is still in mass-production then send the damaged aircraft back to Lockheed-Martin to remanufacture it.
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....... I mean come on, replacing 1 F35 for the US is practically nothing considering their budget. Its bad yes but nothing serious
 
lmaoxd said:
....... I mean come on, replacing 1 F35 for the US is practically nothing considering their budget. Its bad yes but nothing serious
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If it is too badly damaged to be considered economical to repair then, yes, it could be sent back to LM where after inspecting the airframe it could then be completely dismantled and the undamaged and repairable parts reused in building a new F-35A.
 
Ozair said:
Interestingly if you look at the aircraft lost to date in accidents and adversary action the F-15Es are probably the biggest loss, especially if they were -229 powered aircraft.
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First reports suggested 2 SJ jets, 1 LN jet (91-0327). But now, it appears all 3 were from the 492nd FS from Lakenheath. 91-0303, 91-0315 and 91-0327 i.e. all -229 engined aircraft, but maybe flown by crews from SJ.
Not sure about the biggest loss since they were very well used and could in theory be replaced with the in production F-15EX. And of the 2 F-15E squadrons based in Lakenheath, 1 is to be disbanded, the other is to be re-equipped with F-35s.
 
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Given that 358 has been online for over 3 years to my recollection and the US actually captured a few being smuggled, programming EODAS to react to turbojet powered MANPADA should’ve been done before

I believe this is EODAS just malfunctioning. Other than debugging the system and checking the sensors there’s not much to be drawn from here. These planes have flown a lot of sorties. Eventually one’s gonna get through.
 
eagle said:
First reports suggested 2 SJ jets, 1 LN jet (91-0327). But now, it appears all 3 were from the 492nd FS from Lakenheath. 91-0303, 91-0315 and 91-0327 i.e. all -229 engined aircraft, but maybe flown by crews from SJ.
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Thanks
eagle said:
Not sure about the biggest loss since they were very well used and could in theory be replaced with the in production F-15EX. And of the 2 F-15E squadrons based in Lakenheath, 1 is to be disbanded, the other is to be re-equipped with F-35s.
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Given the -220 jets were the ones to be retired and the -229 retained in service losing three is a significant loss. They also won't just replace three lost jets, it would have to be done as a squadron or else the currency, training and maintenance would be a nightmare, aside from the fact the EX uses the F110 anyway.

Replacing a lost F-35A though is comparatively much much easier.
 
Here are actual annual deliveries in total, to all customers. Sadly, for most years there is no International and US breakdown.
134 in 2019 (81 of which to DoD)
120 in 2020
141 in 2021
141 in 2022
98 in 2023 (few to DoD)
110 in 2024 (few to DoD)
191 in 2025 (majority should be to DoD)

One can see the Covid dip, which was fairly mild. But then the whole TR3 stoppage impacted deliveries in 2023 and also in 2024, creating an undelivered backlog. Which then got delivered in 2025, over the usual finished production deliveries. So one can expect 2026 deliveries to go back to 150 or so. Maybe some more backlogged F35s are yet undelivered, but shouldnt be too many left.

With those 85 planes budgeted for FY27, and fewer budgeted in years prior, (68 for 2025? just 24 to 47 in 2026?) it seems plausible that deliveries to DoD might drop in the 2026 and especially in 2027 and 2028, before rising again in 2029. Not sure if they will ever get to a 100 per year though. certainly not before 2030, even if a sudden budget increase happens.
 
That is a shockingly low amount for the next Air Force order of F-35s for the FY2027 budget.
 
TomcatViP said:
38... That a small calliber for any forces.
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FighterJock said:
That is a shockingly low amount for the next Air Force order of F-35s for the FY2027 budget.
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USAF hasn't taken more than 48 in a year cross the aircrafts production life and it was articifically more in 2025 just becasue of TR3 delays. The USAF has been pretty consistent in their messaging that they want Blk 4 jets and don't want to spend budget until they are available. Whether that means the yearly order quantity will increase post 2030, orders will remain low and LM will have missed the boat by fluffing Blk 4, or CCAs will overtake F-35 orders as a priority remains to be seen but 38 shouldn't be shocking or a surprise.

I agree 100% it is too low to recap the fleet but it is increasingly looking like, at least in USAF service, the F-35 will never reach the projected numbers.
 
RavenOne said:
Royal Norwegian Air Force (RNoAF) F-35A
View attachment 807065
cheers
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You have to have a million dollar needle to lance those painful RAM boils.

One pilot tried doing that on the cheap recently…it ended badly.

And the AWACS with the Botox (whistles)….
I think it woke up in the bathtub…
 
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What is going to happen to Switzerland's F-35 purchase in that case? Full Cancelation?
 
My thoughts too now Imaoxd. Coming to think about it, it would be pretty stupid to cancle the order outright and certainly that would probably annoy Trump as well.
 
FighterJock said:
My thoughts too now Imaoxd. Coming to think about it, it would be pretty stupid to cancle the order outright and certainly that would probably annoy Trump as well.
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The avg swiss number per squadron seems to be 10-12 for the F/A 18 hornet. Looks like they got 3 squadrons worth of F35s(12 per) at the start then reduced the number per squadron down to 10 to get 30 in total. We might see a reduction down to 12 for one squadron in total.

I think they planned a 1-1 replacement for the hornets but I dont see how that goes through in the current environment
 

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