Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

I'm a lot more pessimistic on Kaan than you are, I cannot see it delivering a capability that will rival the F-35 till at least the 2040s if ever.

Hence I see the original requirement for the 100 A models seeing a revival and ideal replacements for the remaining F-4s and pre Blk 50 F-16s.
My friend, I've grown older with this programme, I see myself as an overall pessimistic person and have been watching it ever since it hatched but let me tell you this:

People have been doubting them since the very beginning including myself but TAI pulls it off. Does this mean there aren't going to be any delays or hurdles? Of course not. But by now I think we've got to acknowledge them and give them a hats off. Since the beginning of this program, TAI has slowly become an experienced aircraft designer/manufacturer and has become the same size as Dassault; There's also the fact that this is by far the biggest technological investment done in Turkey since like, forever.

TAI has 3 helicopter and 4 aircraft development projects unfinished in their hands right now and none of them have experienced any major hurdles as of yet (and they hopefully never will).

As TAI has built experience and a product catalog, so has the rest of the aviation industry in Turkey. The current tech demonstrator that has flown is AFAICR already some 90 percent indigenous; leaving some valves, the ejection seat and engines foreign (indigenous equivalents of the last two are under development).

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Funding won't be a problem since TuAF hasn't commited to any large procurements in 24+ years except the F-35 and we know how that turned out. Economy size-wise Turkey already is the 17th largest economy with a 1.1+ trillion GDP size. Since acc. to some oblivious foreign "Defence Journalists" Turkey 'shockingly' found a budget that wasn't there before for over 120 F-35s, new 40 F-16Vs and now some new built Eurofighters for 5.6 billion USD(source: Bloomberg), I assume this won't be a problem at all.

Never mind the fact that TurAF was originally planning a 1:1 replacement of 400 fighters back in the 00s, the last fighter procurement was back in 2009 for some 30 F-16s and the F-35s haven't arrived; this leaves a huge and critically urgent demand for new and low observable fighter aircraft.

Last but not least; acc. to the 'top boss' (General Manager) of TAI all of the required HUGE investments of infrastructure for the project to succeed and the development of the aircraft itself cost just 1 billion USD until Q1 2024 (and the cost over the program lifetime was estimated to be 10 billion USD). And by that I mean they've really invested enough for TAI to just churn out new aircraft designs for the next century onwards.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tai-tf-x-milli-muharip-uçak-mmu-kaan.13448/

I hope I left no questions unanswered.

Cheers
 
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My friend, I've grown older with this programme, I see myself as an overall pessimistic person and have been watching it ever since it hatched but let me tell you this:

People have been doubting them since the very beginning including myself but TAI pulls it off. Does this mean there aren't going to be any delays or hurdles? Of course not. But by now I think we've got to acknowledge them and give them a hats off. Since the beginning of this program, TAI has slowly become an experienced aircraft designer/manufacturer and has become the same size as Dassault; There's also the fact that this is by far the biggest technological investment done in Turkey since like, forever.

TAI has 3 helicopter and 4 aircraft development projects unfinished in their hands right now and none of them have experienced any major hurdles as of yet (and they hopefully never will).

As TAI has built experience and a product catalog, so has the rest of the aviation industry in Turkey. The current tech demonstrator that has flown is AFAICR already some 90 percent indigenous; leaving some valves, the ejection seat and engines foreign (indigenous equivalents of the last two are under development).

View attachment 742007
img_20240222_161623-jpg.720656



Funding won't be a problem since TuAF hasn't commited to any large procurements in 24+ years except the F-35 and we know how that turned out. Economy size-wise Turkey already is the 17th largest economy with a 1.1+ trillion GDP size. Since acc. to some oblivious foreign "Defence Journalists" Turkey 'shockingly' found a budget that wasn't there before for over 120 F-35s, new 40 F-16Vs and now some new built Eurofighters for 5.6 billion USD(source: Bloomberg), I assume this won't be a problem at all.

Never mind the fact that TurAF was originally planning a 1:1 replacement of 400 fighters back in the 00s, the last fighter procurement was back in 2009 for some 30 F-16s and the F-35s haven't arrived; this leaves a huge and critically urgent demand for new and low observable fighter aircraft.

Last but not least; acc. to the 'top boss' (General Manager) of TAI all of the required HUGE investments of infrastructure for the project to succeed and the development of the aircraft itself cost just 1 billion USD until Q1 2024 (and the cost over the program lifetime was estimated to be 10 billion USD). And by that I mean they've really invested enough for TAI to just churn out new aircraft designs for the next century onwards.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/tai-tf-x-milli-muharip-uçak-mmu-kaan.13448/

I hope I left no questions unanswered.

Cheers
Thank you for the info but I will remain pessimistic for the moment. I don't have the same faith in statements such as the cost to develop to date especially given the inflationary nature of the current Turkish economy.

Good luck to them.
 
How much of Ozgur though is/was a reaction to no F-35? If Turkey are back in does it make sense to go forward with so many, especially in the context of Greece fighter fleet modernisation.
Özgür is a ~12 year old program. So it has been going on since way before Turkey got kicked out of the F-35.
 
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AND more $$$$ for LM.
This l can't remember among the Kemalist precepts l learned at school. Should ask the younger generations whether it was written into the Constitution in the last 25 years.

Almost the exact number of F-35s this country might have bought sat out in "secret bases" for a year or more waiting for software updates. Turkey is a solution to nothing in the F-35 programme.

And the unit cost of F-35 is not ever a concern. Not buying it, not competing against it.
 
:)
F-35 letter to US Congress: Do not sell to Turkey:
HALC, which lobbies on behalf of Greece, sent a letter to the US Congress saying "Do not take Turkey back into the F-35 program". The letter includes negotiation claims in the Greek press and statements by Minister Fidan…
The Hellenic American Leadership Council (HALC), which lobbies in favor of Greece in the US, has taken action to prevent a possible permit for the delivery of F-35 fighter jets to Turkey.

The American Congress is not in the HALC, the Turks are not in the country, the "US" in a state of emergency.

The petition was submitted by Senators Ben Cardin and Jim Risch, as well as Senators Michael McCaul and Gregory Meeks.

Cardin is the chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, while Risch is a senior member of the same committee. However, McCaul is the member of the State Committee of the Venetian, and Meeks is a senior member of this committee.

The HALC petition stated, "Turkey must prove a lot to the American people before it is granted the privilege of being included in the F-35 program again. Turkey has shown that it is willing to use American-made weapons against America's partners and allies, which is against the interests of the United States."

The petition also argued that Turkey violated Greek airspace with American-made F-16 fighter jets within the scope of the "Blue Homeland" doctrine, and emphasized that "expensive aircraft are being used against Greek sovereignty."

The same text also accused Turkey of "cooperating with Russia, sheltering Hamas, and blackmailing NATO," and said, "Turkey cannot be rewarded with F-35s or advanced jet engines," and asked Congress to reject Ankara's demands.

Turkey was removed from the F-35 program on the grounds that it purchased the S-400 air defense system from Russia, and CAATSA sanctions were implemented with the signature of then-President Donald Trump. Ankara requested new F-16 jets and modernization kits from the US to rejuvenate its aging fleet in the absence of F-35s. While Washington approved this sale, technical talks are currently ongoing between the Ministry of National Defense and the supplier parties.

On the other hand, Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan announced that Ankara is still interested in the F-35s and that formulas are being worked on to lift the CAATSA sanctions that prevent the sale.

In an interview with Anadolu Agency last week, Fidan said, "The F-35 is stuck because of CAATSA, as I said, we are trying to solve this issue not only because of the F-35, but also because of the CAATSA issue. In other words, if a solution regarding the F-35 comes along with this issue while this issue is being solved, of course it would be preferable."

DW
https://www.dw.com/tr/abd-kongresine-f-35-mektubu-türkiyeye-satmayın/a-70302369?maca=tur-rss-tur-all-1495-rdf&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
Precision Bombing through the clouds in Afghan mountains:

During an operation to protect the Salma Dam, located in Herat province, from Taliban destruction, one detachment of Afghan troops became stuck as they pushed north, Sadat writes in his book. Cloud cover in temperatures plunging below zero made it impossible to conduct air strikes against the Taliban using U.S.-supplied A-10s.
“That’s when we made the first use in Afghanistan of a weapon which would give us a significant advantage in winter fighting,” Sadat recalls.
[...]
“The impact [the F-35] left on my soldiers was amazing. Like, whoa, you know, we have this technology,” Sadat said. “But also the impact on the Taliban was quite crippling, because they have never seen Afghan forces move in the winter, and they have never seen planes that could bomb through the clouds.”

 
Netherlands declare FOC for F-35:
(link in Dutch - use a translator)

As of today, [F-35] fighter aircraft is officially fully operational under all circumstances. In jargon, it has the status Full Operational Capability (FOC).

 
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24 F-35A and weapons package for the Czech Republic:



read also here for formal Czech gov approval of the deal
 
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The Navy Lookout channel has put out a short video about the FAA's 809 squadron embarking for the first time its' F-35B Lightning IIs aboard an aircraft-carrier:


Four F-35 jets of 809 Naval Air Squadron begin pilot carrier qualification sorties flying from HMS Prince of Wales in the North Sea.
This is the first time 809 Squadron has embarked on a carrier since the squadron was disbanded 1982. “The Immortals” were stood up at a ceremony at RAF Marham in Dec 2023. The 809-badged jets are shared in a pool with other squadrons and jointly operated by both RN and RAF personnel.
Additional aircraft from 617 Squadron will embark later for exercise Strike Warrior 2024.
 
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Actually, no. Those 6 already built, delivered and still TuAF-owned F-35s need to go under a deep maintenance, update and be used for extensive training again. And the production slots for the rest of the ordered planes were given to USAF so imo Turkey will have to wait at least until 2032-33 for new planes.

So TuAF might as well bite the bullet and wait for Kaan. The Navy OTOH would benefit greatly from having F-35Bs at their disposal but as I've mentioned, they are already commited to 3 different -indigenous - aircraft types as replacements (which is not ideal but fine enough):



All of this meaning: Hold your horses...

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3 instructor pilots have already been trained but obviously since it was long ago they'd have to go back to training again if Turkey ever returns to the program.

As a fun fact, the similators were already shipped to Turkey when it got kicked out.

GFQs5RRXwAAZ0IJ
When talking about Turkey possibly rejoining the programme, people are almost always missing out what's probably the important aspect of the clusterfudge that this whole this has become.

I recommend reading the whole thread.

View: https://x.com/OguzArikboga/status/1841495137819463794


Screenshot 2024-10-03 175859.png
 

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