Australia retired theirs and the USMC and USN also retired plenty in favor of the F-35. Spare parts situation can't be too terrible given that the type is still operated by the US, Finland, Switzerland, Canada, Malaysia, Kuwait and Spain (3 Operators in Europe).
But as I said, there's no point in arguing further on that front, everything has been said, all points were made.
Australia retired theirs and the USMC and USN also retired plenty in favor of the F-35. Spare parts situation can't be too terrible given that the type is still operated by the US, Finland, Switzerland, Canada, Malaysia, Kuwait and Spain (3 Operators in Europe).
Australia retired theirs and the USMC and USN also retired plenty in favor of the F-35. Spare parts situation can't be too terrible given that the type is still operated by the US, Finland, Switzerland, Canada, Malaysia, Kuwait and Spain (3 Operators in Europe).
But as I said, there's no point in arguing further on that front, everything has been said, all points were made.
Except there kind of is. Australia never operated the F/A-18Cs. The RAAF retired F/A-18As ... some which went to Canada (along with the spares GTX mentioned). With Canada-US relations are they currently are, there is virtually no chance that ex-RCAF CF188s would go to Ukraine (the will is there, the replacements aren't). Spain is in the same boat, only now seriously looking at replacing C.15s/CE.15s.
Of the other Hornet operators mentioned, who is offering surplus aircraft to Kyiv? No-one that I am aware of. So, we are back to availability again. When that is the case in an existential war, the attacked will fight with whatever they can get. So, UA will operate (and lose) F-16s ... just like the Dutch flew D.XXIs against Bf 109s and the Finns flew Brewsters against superior Soviet fighters. Not ideal but the nation under attack fights back back with what is available.
This comparison is strange. F-16 have a good fighting chance against the Su-35, who are the best Russia can offer in significant number to face them. Ukraine just need training in air operation with more than half a dozen of isolated pairs and focus on massive formation package. The M2K and F-16 have very good navigation instrumentation that allow for precise and coordinate deep strikes. Russia is not a nation you defeat on the FLOT with reciprocal attrition.
This comparison is strange. F-16 have a good fighting chance against the Su-35, who are the best Russia can offer in significant number to face them. Ukraine just need training in air operation with more than half a dozen of isolated pairs and focus on massive formation package. The M2K and F-16 have very good navigation instrumentation that allow for precise and coordinate deep strikes. Russia is not a nation you defeat on the FLOT with reciprocal attrition.
You're seriously comparing ancient F-16A MLUs, which don't even get the newest AIM-120s available, with a Su-35S that flies around with R-77-1s, R-77Ms and R-37Ms????
Yikes.
The UAF lost F-16s to Geraniums, I think that's enough said.
"Deep strikes" are a death sentence to the F-16 and Mirage. They can't do such a thing, which is also why they hang around in the rear (and still fall out of the sky regardless).
And are you seriously suggesting that one of your unavailable yet personally-preferred fighters would have stood a better chance while shooting down flying bombs with gun-fire? The RAF lost Spitfire XIVs and Tempest Vs intercepting your ancestor's V1s. Both were excellent aircraft ... unless forced to fire on wingborne explosives!
Personally, I've never been a big fan of the F-16 either. But instead of callously deriding the efforts (and deaths) of others defending their country from attack, you should, at the very least, put forward viable options. Why muse over remaining USMC F/A-18Cs still in service (or why parts are in short supply) when no-one is offering them to Ukraine?
Have you considered, instead, advocating for a German donation of Tornados to Kyiv? And while you're at it, perhaps your MdB should hear your views on donating Luftwaffe Taurus missiles too.
And are you seriously suggesting that one of your unavailable yet personally-preferred fighters would have stood a better chance while shooting down flying bombs with gun-fire? The RAF lost Spitfire XIVs and Tempest Vs intercepting your ancestor's V1s. Both were excellent aircraft ... unless forced to fire on wingborne explosives!
Personally, I've never been a big fan of the F-16 either. But instead of callously deriding the efforts (and deaths) of others defending their country from attack, you should, at the very least, put forward viable options. Why muse over remaining USMC F/A-18Cs still in service (or why parts are in short supply) when no-one is offering them to Ukraine?
Have you considered, instead, advocating for a German donation of Tornados to Kyiv? And while you're at it, perhaps your MdB should hear your views on donating Luftwaffe Taurus missiles too.
It's not about personal preference whatsoever, I just stated what aircraft (More MiG-29s, Legacy Hornets or Gripens) would have qualities that make them infinitely more suited to the situation in Ukraine.
Using genuine fighter jets and their guns to shoot down low flying, low speed drones is just pure tactical failure and mismanagement and a disservice to the people that sit in the cockpit. Something discussed at length in the UA F-16 thread and the Anti-Drone thread. Ukraine (and Russia) have found that using helicopters against these low and slow flying drones is safer, cheaper and more efficient. Something like an F-16 has merits when you intercept a Kh-101, but even then you better use missiles for maximum effectiveness, success chance and safety.
Photographs of F-16s Block 70/72 and F-16 cockpit mockup fitted with Martin-Baker US18E ejection seat.
The first photo compares new US18E ejection seat (in the same mockup in background...) with legacy ACES II ejection seat (foreground and "real" F-16D...).
You're seriously comparing ancient F-16A MLUs, which don't even get the newest AIM-120s available, with a Su-35S that flies around with R-77-1s, R-77Ms and R-37Ms????
Yikes.
The UAF lost F-16s to Geraniums, I think that's enough said.
"Deep strikes" are a death sentence to the F-16 and Mirage. They can't do such a thing, which is also why they hang around in the rear (and still fall out of the sky regardless).
the most modern Ukrainian F-16AM/BM is equipped with AIM-120C-5/C-7 and AIM-9X it,s was have like F-16 Block 50/52. R-77M is only used on the new Su-35 Series (Delivery in 2024/2025) and Su-57
Mod: Sales pitch not news but probably the most appropriate thread for this
Our mission is to deliver innovative solutions to help our customers keep people safe. Our products have been doing just that in Latin America for more than 50 years. Our presence on the continent is growing as we strengthen partnerships in the region. Now, as the Fuerza Aérea del Perú (FAP) prepares to transform its fighter fleet, we are confident the F-16 Block 70 will deliver the advanced capabilities and performance needed to address Peru’s pressing defense requirements now and decades to come.
F-16 Block 70: Advanced Air Defense Capability
The F-16 is the most advanced 4th generation fighter and brings a new level of combat capability to air forces around the world. With a global fleet of over 3,100 F-16s currently in operation across 29 countries, Peru would become an integral part of a robust and expansive international network, both now and in the future. Anytime, day or night, there is a good chance an F-16 is serving a critical mission somewhere in the world, and to ensure the F-16's continued role in enabling peace through strength, we maintain a forward-looking technology roadmap, driving innovation and upgrades that address emerging challenges.
Allied & Industrial Partnerships
The F-16 is a symbol of enduring partnerships and industrial collaboration. With the F-16 Block 70, Peru is not just procuring an aircraft - it’s building a decades-long strategic relationship with the United States. Joining the F-16 Block 70 program brings the FAP additional military cooperation opportunities and allied partnerships, not only with the U.S., but with many other countries. Furthermore, the F-16 fosters industrial base cooperation, which increases interoperability between allied defense forces, drives resilience in supply chains and creates economic growth for all partners.
Cutting-Edge Radar Technology
The F-16 Block 70 is equipped with Northrop Grumman’s advanced SABR APG-83 AESA fire control radar and has 5th Generation fighter radar capabilities, delivering unparalleled situational awareness and all-weather targeting precision. Its technology provides pilots with detailed digital map displays that are customizable with slew and zoom features. Of added benefit, the radar’s commonality with the F-35’s radar is a remarkable 95% for software and 70% for hardware.
Life-Saving Safety Features
A standout addition to the F-16 Block 70 is Lockheed Martin’s Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (Auto GCAS), which earned a Collier Trophy® for helping eliminate a leading cause of fatalities in military aviation. Designed to mitigate incidents of controlled flight into terrain, Auto GCAS has already saved 13 pilots and 12 F-16s since entering service in 2014. Its integration into the F-16 underscores the aircraft’s superior safety and performance capabilities.
Unrivaled Weapon Integration
Lockheed Martin has more than 40 years of weapon integration experience with the F-16, which no other company can match. Our experience as a weapon integrator has enabled the F-16 to develop into one of the most versatile multirole fighters.
Integrated Sustainment
F-16 operators benefit from economies of scale based on the sheer number of jets flying today and expected to be flying for years to come. We are a full lifecycle partner, across development and engineering, production and sustainment, and are focused on delivering integrated sustainment capabilities to ensure our customers’ aircraft are mission ready anytime and anywhere.
Enhanced Situational Awareness
The F-16 Block 70’s high-resolution center pedestal display provides critical tactical imagery and seamlessly integrates AESA and targeting pod data. Pilots receive enhanced awareness from the pedestal’s color moving maps, enlarged air-to-air situation displays and zoom functionality. Their capabilities are augmented by digital flight instrument data displays and a color/night helmet-mounted display.
Extended Structural Life
The F-16 Block 70 boasts an extended structural life of 12,000 hours, equivalent to over 40 years of service for most air forces, with minimal structural repairs required. This longevity, coupled with greater inspection intervals, significantly reduces maintenance costs.
Enhanced Operational Flexibility
The inclusion of conformal fuel tanks enhances the aircraft’s operational flexibility and increases its fuel capacity and mission range — without compromising its aerodynamic efficiency.
The former Dutch F-16s are playing a key role in training Ukrainian Air Force pilots and others to fly the Viper. The former Dutch F-16s are playing a key role in training Ukrainian Air Force pilots and others to fly the Viper.
Greece has approved a program to upgrade 38 F-16 Block 50 fighters to the Viper configuration, aligning them with the modernization already underway for 83 Block 52+ aircraft.
As reported by OnAlert on December 1, 2025, Greece has authorized the upgrade of 38 F-16C/D Block 50 aircraft to the latest F-16 Viper configuration, following an Air Staff recommendation and cost adjustments that brought the program within national planning limits. The package, aligned with the 83 F-16 Block 52+ jets already in the upgrade process, is scheduled for review by the parliamentary defense committee in early 2026 before the Letter of Request is sent to the United States.
The former Dutch F-16s are playing a key role in training Ukrainian Air Force pilots and others to fly the Viper. The former Dutch F-16s are playing a key role in training Ukrainian Air Force pilots and others to fly the Viper.
Argentina's far-right President Javier Milei on Saturday welcomed six US-made F-16 fighter jets purchased from Denmark, saying the purchase would "considerably strengthen" the country's air force. Milei's…
After 46 years, the Danish Viper has stood down from duty, but survivors will continue to fly in Argentina and Ukraine. After 46 years, the Danish Viper has stood down from duty, but survivors will continue to fly in Argentina and Ukraine.
Romania’s acting minister of defence, Radu Miruță, has asked Parliament to grant prior approval for the signing of a framework agreement with Lockheed Martin for the training of F-16 flight personnel at the European F-16 Training Center (EFTC) hosted in Romania, Profit.ro reported. The...
www.romania-insider.com
"That contract includes a requirement to maintain the training capacity of the EFTC, particularly for pilot training slots allocated to Ukraine starting in 2026. The continued operation of the training centre is also described as essential for the operationalisation of Romania’s own F-16 squadrons.
The ministry said the proposed agreement with Lockheed Martin would ensure continuity of training activities at the EFTC and support both national defence objectives and allied commitments."
Branded Content: A new training center, F-16 Viper (F-16V) upgrades, and new-build Block 70/72 variants hail the second-coming of the Fighting Falcon in Europe.
www.twz.com
"The F-16 course in Romania lasts roughly six months and is broadly based on the USAF Basic Course (B-Course). As is commonplace with modern fighter pilot training, this begins with academic classes, and includes judicious use of the EFTC’s two full motion dome simulators, two fixed cockpit simulators, and live flying of 10-12 sorties that teach the new aviators how to actually fly the F-16 safely. A student is expected to solo on their fifth flight.
Unlike a typical B-Course, a tailored mission qualification training (MQT) phase follows, which covers fighter maneuvering, air-to-air and surface attack tactics, and weapons employment. Elements such as flying with the Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS), night vision goggles (NVGs), using the Sniper targeting pod, threat reaction techniques, ‘slow mover’ intercepts, and lots of flying on instruments in bad weather are also included. This mission qualification phase is being updated regularly to include new weapons and new tactics."
"When Ukraine first received F-16s from Denmark and the Netherlands, it had to move quickly to train an initial core of pilots. These were all experienced MiG and Sukhoi aviators, and they learned how to operate the Viper on hastily-arranged crossover courses in the U.S. and in Denmark. Ukraine is now expanding its F-16 pilot cadre through brand new students that are coming through a diverse training pipeline.
These new flyers are typically trained in Grob Tutors, Alpha Jets, and L-39s, before coming to the EFTC. To date, two classes of Ukrainian F-16 pilots have graduated from the EFTC, and there continue to be Ukrainian pilots in various phases of training, plus, new Ukrainian F-16 pilots are also being trained by the Air National Guard in Arizona."
Intelligence Online reports that Ukraine has formed an international unit of new F-16 fighter jets piloted by veterans from Western armed forces, including the United States and the Netherlands. They are helping to repel Russian aerial attacks.
www.pravda.com.ua
"The unit was created "in recent weeks" by the Ukrainian Air Force for immediate deployment. The international squadron is currently playing a central role in the air defence of Kyiv Oblast, which Russia is attacking with drones and missiles, Intelligence Online says.
The unit includes American pilots who "have carried out numerous combat missions in Afghanistan" and a western veteran who performed missions in the Middle East before joining the mission in Ukraine. Among the Dutch pilots are graduates of "leading European air combat schools known for their advanced training in interception and modern aerial warfare"."
Whether or not this is a good idea assuming the claims are true (I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if there are such volunteers in Ukraine, I mean you've already had western volunteers serving in Ukrainian infantry units since early 2022), there is historical precedent for this going right back to the Korean War when Soviet pilots flew MiG-15s for the North Koreans and the Chinese. Then of course you had similar volunteers in North Vietnam flying North Vietnamese MiG-17s, MiG-19s and MiG-21s along with Russian army units operating SA-2 Guideline and SA-3 Goa SAM batteries.
Former Dutch F-16 pilots are part of a Ukrainian squadron shooting down Russian missiles and drones in Kyiv’s airspace, the French platform Intelligence Online reported. According to the platform, the squadron has been monitoring Kyiv airspace for several weeks and also includes American veterans.
nltimes.nl
"The Ministry of Defense could not confirm nor deny the reports to NOS. A spokesperson did say that the Dutch military no longer has any operational F-16 pilots in the air force."
"In recent years, the Netherlands has donated 24 F-16s to Ukraine and another 18 of the fighter jets to a training center in Romania, where Ukrainian pilots are trained to fly and maintain them."
"According to NOS, Dutch soldiers are allowed to serve in other militaries."
"“Volunteers” from the Netherlands operating F-16 fighter jets in Ukraine would be considered "legitimate military targets and criminals" by Russia, the Russian Embassy in the Netherlands said on Wednesday."
"The Kingdom's course toward militarization and active support for Ukraine has long been evident. Dutch pilots represent yet another chapter in the Russophobic multi-volume series," the embassy stated, accusing The Hague of deepening its involvement in the conflict."
Sandboxx has uploaded a short video concerning recent claims that US and Dutch F-16 pilots have been flying F-16s in Ukraine:
Whether or not this is a good idea assuming the claims are true (I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if there are such volunteers in Ukraine, I mean you've already had western volunteers serving in Ukrainian infantry units since early 2022), there is historical precedent for this going right back to the Korean War when Soviet pilots flew MiG-15s for the North Koreans and the Chinese. Then of course you had similar volunteers in North Vietnam flying North Vietnamese MiG-17s, MiG-19s and MiG-21s along with Russian army units operating SA-2 Guideline and SA-3 Goa SAM batteries.
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