Lockheed "Classified Aero Program"

I was briefly looking into Project Mayhem related to this but didn't immediately find anything corroborating
 
Things will never go back to how this forum was 15 years ago, for many reasons. Many of which annoy you like PE funded, LLM driven enterprises, many of which use this forum as their quotidian bread and butter. The cold, hard facts, bitterly or patiently fought for by the elite members of this forum, for sure, but even the speculative stuff, from time to time. Some big decisions might have to be made wrt to the structure of this forum, some of which are because of the times we live in, but I am increasingly of the view that a dedicated speculative octagon within the SPF forum that could cross aerospace, military, propulsion, avionics, missiles & bombs and houses or contains speculative, but still interesting, posts and discussions away from fact based threads. But this is the wrong thread and sub forum for this….
 
quellish said:
Rather than just create speculation , I would encourage members to perform research. For example:

- Did Lockheed make changes, such as building new facilities, on a time frame that matches what is known about this program?
- Are there existing contracts in the public domain (such as on SAM.gov, etc.) that are part of, or related to, this program?
- Are there items in the defense budget that have amounts or characteristics that line up with what is known about this program?
- Is this an existing program that we already know about and is in the public domain? This is entirely possible and has happened before (i.e. "Air Force Special Platform")

Lockheed broke ground on a new manufacturing center at Palmdale in 2019, it was opened in 2021. They are now beginning on construction of a second new facility at Palmdale.
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You are right , there is a new building in Palmdale with a hush house style. There is a lot of rumors since 2018 about a new ISR/STRIKE build by Lockheed to replace the RQ-180, the long range strike is Northrop winning, the NGAD is Boeing winning , the High capacity ISR/STRIKE could be winning by Lockheed. The ISR mission is allways in the highly classified world , Taiclet is unaware to speak anything about this program for years to come, so we are speaking about a program starting in 2018 and may be in the sky in the years 2028 so a decade of black program. The loss of 1.6 billion is enormous so it is surely the most huge classified program since a lot of years in the past.
 
Training_Dummy said:
Things will never go back to how this forum was 15 years ago, for many reasons. Many of which annoy you like PE funded, LLM driven enterprises, many of which use this forum as their quotidian bread and butter. The cold, hard facts, bitterly or patiently fought for by the elite members of this forum, for sure, but even the speculative stuff, from time to time. Some big decisions might have to be made wrt to the structure of this forum, some of which are because of the times we live in, but I am increasingly of the view that a dedicated speculative octagon within the SPF forum that could cross aerospace, military, propulsion, avionics, missiles & bombs and houses or contains speculative, but still interesting, posts and discussions away from fact based threads. But this is the wrong thread and sub forum for this….
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People in the know can not disclose anything on a forum , may be they just give us just few way to search.
 
Training_Dummy said:
Things will never go back to how this forum was 15 years ago, for many reasons. Many of which annoy you like PE funded, LLM driven enterprises, many of which use this forum as their quotidian bread and butter. The cold, hard facts, bitterly or patiently fought for by the elite members of this forum, for sure, but even the speculative stuff, from time to time. Some big decisions might have to be made wrt to the structure of this forum, some of which are because of the times we live in, but I am increasingly of the view that a dedicated speculative octagon within the SPF forum that could cross aerospace, military, propulsion, avionics, missiles & bombs and houses or contains speculative, but still interesting, posts and discussions away from fact based threads. But this is the wrong thread and sub forum for this….
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Oh you mean the SPF in 2010 where members gaslit, harassed, and thread polluted anyone that talked about anything that was even remotely exotic? Yeah, no thanks. This very thread would have been polluted right out of existence.
 
On X run speculation wild with stuff like this
Gw-69-jXoAAsYu3


Also pop up again the rumor that this Project is "Tic-Tac"
That is a nickname a Navy Pilot gave to UFO, sorry now called UAP.
What he encounter in airspace near San Diego in 2004...

...i stick to real Tic-Tac hard mint.
 
Josh_TN said:
I think these releases are just advertising that happens to feature things with pointy noses, and I would not read too much into that or even the shareholders meeting.
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There is a need of communication for Lockheed in the direction of the investors since the stock fall last week, passing by a contractor like GE could be some sort of communication.
 
Josh_TN said:
I think these releases are just advertising that happens to feature things with pointy noses, and I would not read too much into that or even the shareholders meeting.
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Over the last 48 hours the entire world is talking about the secret Skunk Works program. The timing of these releases are not a coincidence. Both releases would be disinformation to cover up what the program actually is. It is not magical or glowing red hot.
 
Rhinocrates said:
Could be referring to Lockheed and its products overall.
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Once more
“This is a highly classified program that can only be described as [a] game-changing capability for our joint US and international customers, and therefore it is critical that it be successfully fielded,” he said.
 
flateric said:
Once more
“This is a highly classified program that can only be described as [a] game-changing capability for our joint US and international customers, and therefore it is critical that it be successfully fielded,” he said.
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Reviewing that as well it is interesting he uses the term Joint US which clearly points to not just one service. Makes me think an unmanned asset is more likely.
 
Airborne DEW similar to the mission of the YAL-1, or a long-endurance unmanned AWACS seems most likely to fit the 'game-changer with international customers' description. Of course, if the Compact Fusion Reactor was secretly being continued that would also fit the description, but given the criticisms I read about the design from nuclear physicists regarding the difficulty of stabilizing high-beta plasmas, I don't expect it was continued.
 
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Explorer121 said:
Airborne DEW similar to the mission of the YAL-1, or a long-endurance unmanned AWACS seems most likely to fit the 'game-changer with international customers' description. Of course, if the Compact Fusion Reactor was secretly being continued that would also fit the description, but given the criticisms I read about the design from nuclear physicists at the time regarding the difficulty of stabilizing high-beta plasmas, I don't expect it was continued.
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You know I cannot help wondering if it isn’t the fusion reactor they are working on at Skunk Works. I can more see that having international partners and going over budget than some military plane.
 
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listen, I might be crazy but Mach 5+ hypersonics, compact fusion reactors OR disruptive DEW systems don’t seem realistic nor do they appear to meet the exportability requirement implied by the “international” modifier in JTs comments.
 
Training_Dummy said:
listen, I might be crazy but Mach 5+ hypersonics, compact fusion reactors OR disruptive DEW systems don’t seem realistic nor do they appear to meet the exportability requirement implied by the “international” modifier in JTs comments.
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Hard disagree on the DEW area. Practical SHORAD microwave, laser, and sonic weapons have been fielded for some time, and the idea that they might be attached to a drone for battlefield interdiction or missile interception is definitely within possibility. Whether it would be cost-effective is a question for engineers, but the currently operating systems from the US, Europe, Israel, China, and Russia can all be mounted or carried by small and medium transport aircraft. My impression was that the range and the difficulty of maintaining the aimpoint wouldn't justify their use on aircraft, but if Lockheed has managed an effective pulse weapon of some type that could fit the bill for "game-changer". The fact that DEW systems are already proliferating means that international partners could replicate them or buy from the first country that does, negating much of the motivation for export restrictions.
 
Explorer121 said:
Hard disagree on the DEW area. Practical SHORAD microwave, laser, and sonic weapons have been fielded for some time, and the idea that they might be attached to a drone for battlefield interdiction or missile interception is definitely within possibility. Whether it would be cost-effective is a question for engineers, but the currently operating systems from the US, Europe, Israel, China, and Russia can all be mounted or carried by small and medium transport aircraft. My impression was that the range and the difficulty of maintaining the aimpoint wouldn't justify their use on aircraft, but if Lockheed has managed an effective pulse weapon of some type that could fit the bill for "game-changer". The fact that DEW systems are already proliferating means that international partners could replicate them or buy from the first country that does, negating much of the motivation for export restrictions.
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In a vacuum I don’t disagree with your logic - especially if it was/were a podded system. But this classified project being in Aerospace suggests a whole airframe or substantial system capability (all of which could mean DEW, I just don’t think it does - comes down to a fundamental disagreement about what the US would permit to export, but I am no expert).
 
Explorer121 said:
Hard disagree on the DEW area. Practical SHORAD microwave, laser, and sonic weapons have been fielded for some time, and the idea that they might be attached to a drone for battlefield interdiction or missile interception is definitely within possibility. Whether it would be cost-effective is a question for engineers, but the currently operating systems from the US, Europe, Israel, China, and Russia can all be mounted or carried by small and medium transport aircraft. My impression was that the range and the difficulty of maintaining the aimpoint wouldn't justify their use on aircraft, but if Lockheed has managed an effective pulse weapon of some type that could fit the bill for "game-changer". The fact that DEW systems are already proliferating means that international partners could replicate them or buy from the first country that does, negating much of the motivation for export restrictions.
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Lockheed speak about a classified aircraft not a DEW system, or pod or some other stuff like that.
 
dark sidius said:
Lockheed speak about a classified aircraft not a DEW system, or pod or some other stuff like that.
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I think a DEW aircraft like the YAL-1 is a real possibility because the power requirements are so much higher than what is provided by anything flying now. It's the limiting factor that led to the DEW pod program being terminated as far as I know. A specially designed air-breathing high power generator and emitter integrated into an airframe would be a very expensive project with a lot of integration challenges, but given their HELSI demonstrator was delivered in 2022, it's not really that outlandish since the laser system is already developed and tested.
 
flateric said:
You have problems with the reading word 'CUSTOMERS'?
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RAF or Aussie Af could be customers of some secret stuff of Lockheed, the technology could be only Lockheed one. We don't know about a hypersonic capacity, but do you realy think that another Air Force and company in the world have the capacity or the money to build a hypersonic plane ? Insteed of China nobody have the capacity and the money so Lockheed could sell to the allies his own production. Highly classified , game changer , magical and 1.6 billion of loss it is not for a F-35 like aircraft. If not supersonic/hypersonic related I don't see what kind of technology being magical and game changing. Stealth is well known by all Air Force in the world.
 
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What a ratatouille of thoughts. There are many game changing things beyond hypersonics. Quantum navigation, quantum radars, advanced drone spoofing. But you want it be only one thing because your ideas can't protrude further.
 
flateric said:
What a ratatouille of thoughts. There are many game changing things beyond hypersonics. Quantum navigation, quantum radars, advanced drone spoofing. But you want it be only one thing because your ideas can't protrude further.
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Sure I understand there are many technologies, but it is surely a plane of some sort, a platform with game changing tech on it, a lot of company work on advanced drones and any of this drones could be a game changer , not something able to do a loss of 1.6 billion and lot of years of secret like the stuff of Lockheed Martin. We know for years that Lockheed is working on high speed concept, there is the Mayhem project who disappear , SR-72 urban legend and it seem that Lockheed is not realy worried about losing the NGAD and FA/XX contract so why ? What kind of stuff could make Lockheed a brilliant futur.
 
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I think the two biggest capability gaps in the US arsenal and in the world at large are something to replace the AWACS and the tanker in contested airspace. I think that while it may be viable, a BWB stealth 1:1 replacement is not that 'magical' or 'game-changing' nor would it have many customers outside the USAF. I'd be interested to see if Skunkworks found a different solution, maybe something with energy beaming?
 
Maybe it's just a flying kitchen with good Italo-American food served to every warfighter on a long range mission... Imagine being handed over a really thick sandwich or a copiously toppled hot pizza while refueling. That would be a game changer!
Given the hiking prices of popular Italian restaurants, I would not be surprised to hear that's where they went overbudget.
 
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flateric said:
Once more
“This is a highly classified program that can only be described as [a] game-changing capability for our joint US and international customers, and therefore it is critical that it be successfully fielded,” he said.
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What would be your guess? Based on current trends?
 
Well my pet project that I want to see funded is the reshoring of manufacturing sectors critical to warfighting (such as shipbuilding) and the disentanglement of these supply chains (such as rare earths) from the PRC such that we have the ability to wage and win a war. Therefore, I believe that this is what Lockheed Martin's aerospace sector is working on.

Let's be honest, at this point we're just discussing every single theoretically-possible cool-sounding military thing.
 
The RAAF will take a squadron of Lockheed NGAD fighters built at the Skunk Works. It would make a perfect high-low mix with their F-35. Multiple reports about the RAAF looking at Tempest and even the B-21.

The RAAF Super Hornets effectively replaced their F-111 fleet. Lockheed NGAD has always been reported to be F-111 size/range. The Super Hornets have now been in service for 15 years

The RAAF received most of the early build F-35A. They are the first country to receive 100% of their order. The RAAF will probably have to spend billions upgrading their F-35A fleet to TR-3 standard in 10 years time. Purchasing Lockheed NGAD for the high end fight would allow the RAAF F-35A fleet to avoid costly hardware upgrades.

The RAAF has learnt a strong lesson when it comes to upgrading old aircraft. The F-111 had billions spent on upgrades including integrating popeye missiles and they were retired only a few years later. Likewise the Classic Hornets were forced to be upgraded to remain dominant. It is much better to have leap frogging capability with a high-low mix. The new aircraft becomes the high and the old aircraft becomes the low. The old aircraft doesn't need to receive costly upgrades as it has become the low end solution. The US Navy has done a similar thing the F-35C has become the high and the Super Hornet the low. Then in 20 years time the F-35C will be the low and the F/A-XX will be the high.
 
insidersource said:
The old aircraft doesn't need to receive costly upgrades as it has become the low end solution. The US Navy has done a similar thing the F-35C has become the high and the Super Hornet the low. Then in 20 years time the F-35C will be the low and the F/A-XX will be the high.
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You're aware of the Block II/III upgrades? RAAF Super Hornets will also receive the upgrade.
 

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