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Lockheed/Boeing A/F-X (AFX-653)

Evil Flower

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Being built for Wings over Israel.

Some artistic license here and there, hope you don't mind.
 

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Woody

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Very cool - I want one. I take it 'Wings Over Israel' is an upcoming game? Got anymore info?

Cheers, Woody
 

Just call me Ray

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Woah, this is one of the best representations of NATF I've seen!



Yeah, hope Wings over Israel comes out for X360 ;D
 

Evil Flower

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I went and made it a little fatter since I thought it a bit too sleek, and it now looks like this:
 

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flateric

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Just call me Ray said:
Woah, this is one of the best representations of NATF I've seen!

A/F-X, actually
 

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KJ_Lesnick

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What's the point of the swing-wings? Lot of weight, modern airfoil with an aircraft with the strength built in from the get-go to withstand carrier launches and recoveries, should be able to do the job okay with the right high-lift-devices (The F-4 was 40,000 lbs at combat weight, from the beginning with 1958 technology -- with composites and all that I'm sure we can do at least as good) and it reveals to your enemy your energy state in a very obvious fashion.

Kendra
 

Evil Flower

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KJ_Lesnick said:
What's the point of the swing-wings? Lot of weight, modern airfoil with an aircraft with the strength built in from the get-go to withstand carrier launches and recoveries, should be able to do the job okay with the right high-lift-devices (The F-4 was 40,000 lbs at combat weight, from the beginning with 1958 technology -- with composites and all that I'm sure we can do at least as good) and it reveals to your enemy your energy state in a very obvious fashion.

Kendra
They probably included the swingwings on purpose due to the popularity of the Tomcat.
 

Maki

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Evil Flower said:
KJ_Lesnick said:
What's the point of the swing-wings? Lot of weight, modern airfoil with an aircraft with the strength built in from the get-go to withstand carrier launches and recoveries, should be able to do the job okay with the right high-lift-devices (The F-4 was 40,000 lbs at combat weight, from the beginning with 1958 technology -- with composites and all that I'm sure we can do at least as good) and it reveals to your enemy your energy state in a very obvious fashion.

Kendra
They probably included the swingwings on purpose due to the popularity of the Tomcat.

I doubt it. Swing-wings have their purpose. Improved loiter time and carrier bring back capability are some of the benefits. The F-4 used blown flaps and the Navy has had some bad experience (very difficult maintenance ).
 

KJ_Lesnick

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Maki said:
I doubt it. Swing-wings have their purpose. Improved loiter time and carrier bring back capability are some of the benefits. The F-4 used blown flaps and the Navy has had some bad experience (very difficult maintenance ).

I was talking about a plane with F-22 like wing-loading, extra strength designed in from the beginning, and composite construction. That should be able to fall within 40,000 lbs and allow handing that would be quite good. To my knowledge the F-22 can fly quite far even while subsonic, although it can supercruise.

I knew the F-4 used some kind of bleed-air system to augment lift (I remember being told though that there were also bleed-air nozzles behind the LED's as they drooped, the nozzles activated blowing extra air across the front of the wing -- I'm not sure though if that's true though) although I actually did not know the specifics. Hard to believe it would need it as the F-4's wings aren't exactly small and aren't exactly thin (they have camber, and their leading edges aren't exactly razor sharp).

Were the blown flaps the only maintenance difficulty with the F-4?


Kendra Lesnick
BTW: What does "carrier bring-back capability" mean?
 

GTX

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"Carrier bring-back capability" refers to the ability to land on the carrier with un-used ordnance (missiles/bombs etc). Often aircraft had to jettison their un-used ordnance prior to landing - mighty expensive these days!!!

Regards,

Greg
 

KJ_Lesnick

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I could understand that being a useful capability. Out of curiousity, could the F-15 and F-22 land okay with all it's ordinance still on?


Kendra Lesnick
 

sferrin

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KJ_Lesnick said:
I could understand that being a useful capability. Out of curiousity, could the F-15 and F-22 land okay with all it's ordinance still on?


Kendra Lesnick

Not on a carrier.
 

Rickshaw

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Nor could the F-14 with a full load of AAM weapons. I'm surprised that the USN had problems with the F-4's blown flaps actually. How did the RN go with the Scimitar and Buccaneer blown wings?
 

F-14D

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rickshaw said:
Nor could the F-14 with a full load of AAM weapons. I'm surprised that the USN had problems with the F-4's blown flaps actually. How did the RN go with the Scimitar and Buccaneer blown wings?

For the F-14, it depended on how much fuel was aboard. More importantly, in the underpowered F-14A could not meet the single -engine waveoff climb requirement when coming back aboard carrying six AIM-54s and two AIM-9s. The F-14B and D could ($9,000 lbs+ bringback), but by the time they entered service the kind of mission that required carrying six AIM-54s (loitering Fleet Air Defense) was not considered as relevant as it had been during the "heat" of the Cold War, and even the F-14 was "draggy" carrying that kind of load.
 

Rickshaw

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F-14D said:
rickshaw said:
Nor could the F-14 with a full load of AAM weapons. I'm surprised that the USN had problems with the F-4's blown flaps actually. How did the RN go with the Scimitar and Buccaneer blown wings?

For the F-14, it depended on how much fuel was aboard. More importantly, in the underpowered F-14A could not meet the single -engine waveoff climb requirement when coming back aboard carrying six AIM-54s and two AIM-9s. The F-14B and D could ($9,000 lbs+ bringback), but by the time they entered service the kind of mission that required carrying six AIM-54s (loitering Fleet Air Defense) was not considered as relevant as it had been during the "heat" of the Cold War, and even the F-14 was "draggy" carrying that kind of load.

OK. I think I understand that. What exactly though does "$9,000 lbs+ bringback" mean?
 

Lampshade111

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Hey, I was going to pick up one of the Wings Over _____ games and I was wondering if this great looking aircraft was released. If so could you direct me to the link.

Also doesn't the nose look a bit too short for a powerful radar?
 

Evil Flower

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Sometimes it's better to just start anew than try to polish a turd, so I went and made a completely new model:
swoosch.jpg

swoosch2.jpg
 

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