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Lockheed / AIDC LT-21 trainer/fighter for Taiwan

raravia

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Hello

Does anybody know something about an unbuilt project between Lockheed and AIDC from Taiwan called LT-21?

I think the project it was in the 60's

Saludos

Fabián
 

rousseau

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Here is the only one
 

TinWing

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Most Lockheed proposals from the the 1950s onward were F-104 derivatives, either quite literally or on a conceptual level, and this would certainly break with that pattern.

Could offer any additional information? This design looks smaller than the Skyray, perhaps closer in size to the F-5? Why the tailless configuration?
 

TinWing

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archipeppe said:
Is this a concurrent design to Douglas Skyray??

A.I.D.C. wasn't founded until 1969?

So the A.I.D.C. designation would imply a far later type the Skyray?
 

Deino

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Hey ... You are my hero !!!

That's the first complete 3-side of a project I knew so far only from a very small gif.-file as the Lockheed/AIDC LT-21 !

Cheers, Deino :D
 

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Deino

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Justo Miranda said:
Via Carlo Godel

Do You have any additional information ?? ... when this project was proposed, which was the suggested powerplant, was it suggested as a fighter, fighter-bomber or (even if I can't believe it) as a trainer ??

Thanks in advance, Deino
 

archipeppe

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TinWing said:
A.I.D.C. wasn't founded until 1969?
So the A.I.D.C. designation would imply a far later type the Skyray?

Mmmhhh... strange.
Because the fighter's architecture resemble most a mid '50s subsonic aircraft than a end '60s one.

Any case if not a direct competitor of Skyray, because smaller, it could be (perhaps) a competitor of A4 Skyhawk??

Anyway, the forward part of the fuselage seems to share some elements with the unlucky Lockheed XF 90 of the end of '40s....
 

Petrus

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TinWing said:
A.I.D.C. wasn't founded until 1969?

According to globalsecurity.org 'The Aerospace Industrial Development Corporation (AIDC), previously known as the Aero Industry Development Center, was established in March 1969 under the Ministry of National Defense.'
The Lockheed fighter actually looks as if it were a 1950s' design. Perhaps Lockheed took something from that times and offered it to Taiwan in the late 1960s?
Anyway, it would be very interesting to know more on the Lockheed's design.

Petrus
 

Retrofit

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Sorry to re-open this thread after so long but there are so many question marks in the posts, but very few answers.
Perhaps some new information have surfaced since 3 years?

Thanks in advance.
 

Petrus

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I have just browsed throught "Lockheed Aircraft Since 1913" by Rene J. Francillon as well as "Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works" by Jay Miller. Unfortunately it seems the two books say absolutely nothing about any cooperation between Lockheed and Chinese (i.e. Taiwanese) aircraft industry. Also the 'Lockheed/AIDC interceptor' doesn't resemble any of the Lockheed's designs. All of this makes the project quite mysterious and much more interesting.

Piotr
 

OM

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Retrofit said:
Sorry to re-open this thread after so long but there are so many question marks in the posts, but very few answers.
Perhaps some new information have surfaced since 3 years?

Thanks in advance.

...That's otay. It gave me a chance to pose this question:

TinWing said:
Most Lockheed proposals from the the 1950s onward were F-104 derivatives, either quite literally or on a conceptual level, and this would certainly break with that pattern.

...I'd heard this before from a US Air Farce officer friend of the family quite some years ago, back when he was assisting me in getting ahold of what was declassified about the Habu - circa 1983 or thereabouts - but we were unable to dig up documentation to prove this assertion. What I'd love to see is a "family tree" of these proposals to show their de/evolution (sic) from the basic F-104 design. Has anyone come across something like this?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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The design posted is very 1950s, like a blend of the F3H and F4D. Wing fences, intakes, and wing planform, suggest a mid/late 40s design.

McDonnell Model 34 was proposed to Taiwan in 1946 possibly in competition to the Gloster CXP-1001. Possibly might date from this time?

No evidence that it ever actually existed of course yet.
 

Stargazer2006

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Could Justo specify his source for the three-view in the first post? Did he use photos of a mock-up? Period artwork which could give the design some validity?

After searching unsuccessfully the Taiwanese web for the words "Lockheed", "AIDC" and "LT-21", I'm strongly inclined to believe that this is a fake, but of course I could be wrong.

As for the 1946 competition that spawned the Gloster and McDonnell designs, it seems much too early for such an advanced design (much more akin to the Douglas Skyray).

We definitely need some genuine documents (even a poorly scanned illustration from a magazine of that era) if we are to accept this as a genuine project, especially since no-one else here seems to have heard about it.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Skyray dates back to 1947 in conception I believe.


It looks like Carlo Godel might have done the drawing - he died in 2005 however.
 

Petrus

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overscan said:
Skyray dates back to 1947 in conception I believe.


It looks like Carlo Godel might have done the drawing - he died in 2005 however.

Do you think the drawing that opened this thread had been an invention of his imagination? Something like a might-have-been project or a part of an alternate history scenario?

Piotr
 
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