LARA (Light Armed Reconnaissance Aircraft)

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,036
Reaction score
530
Nice contribution thanks RAP

Can't help but notice in meeting the 'six troop transportion requirements', that Beech located one of the soldiers in the rear most of the cockpit? But alas I only count five troop's....wonder where the sixth is located?
Regardless, it doesn't look overly comfortable - especially after two weeks in the bush, when living on ratpacks/MRE's

Regards
Pioneer
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20190610_104253.jpg
    IMG_20190610_104253.jpg
    22 KB · Views: 453

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,119
Reaction score
5,629
Yes I am sure,but we can say it's a different or a developed version of G-134A.
 

famvburg

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
345
Reaction score
19
About 30+ years ago, my first dealings with resin display models was with Rick’s Models out of Ohio, I think. He sold basic blank kits and finished models. Nearly all of his models were 1/48, and since my scale is 1/72, I asked if there was any hope for us 1/72 fans. He said “No, the preferred scale for display models is 1/48”. Of course, the would custom-build anything in any scale, for a price. In 1989, I did buy a solid resin 1/72 B-2 and XF-12 Rainbow from him tho.
 

allysonca

ACCESS: Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
220
Reaction score
442
Rick bought a lot of models from Al Parker over the years. You may recall the yellow resin with the stinky smell. We've come a long way since then with newer materials that are lighter, sandable, and stable.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,119
Reaction score
5,629
From L+K 13/1965.
 

Attachments

  • 1   13-1965.png
    1 13-1965.png
    215.1 KB · Views: 262

Basil

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
286
Reaction score
72
An interesting feature of this Martin proposal with its inverted v tail is the use of exhaust gases for tail plane steering augmentation at low flight speeds. The turboprop's exhaust gases are rooted within the tailbooms and exhausted over the rudders. It was developed and patented by Hans Multhopp, chief designer of the Ta-183, during his time at Martin.
 

Valfour

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Messages
1
Reaction score
3
It would be a very interesting book as the LARA project was basically devised by two USMC aviators at China Lake - Col. K.P. Rice (who designed the triple ejector rack) and Maj. William Beckett - who even started building their own prototype before the project was turned into a major quad service acquisition. Of course USAF managed to destroy the projects intent from inside as it would have undermined much of their air concept and perceived monopoly. The main idea of the LARA being a short wingspan and highly simple to fly and maintain aircraft that can be attached to infantry battalions and other units like a jeep or a small boat. The OV-10 is a great plane but it’s no LARA.
K.P. Rice passed away on December 26, 2019
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,119
Reaction score
5,629
Hi boys,
searching the previous posts about the LARA/COIN requirement (one of my favourite matters, for various and complex reasons) I found that some pictures I Have were never enclosed.
Two of them are particularly intriguing as I cannot say if are pure fiction or some real projetcs. The pictures are clipping (without any note about the subject) from two different advertisings; i think from an aircraft engine manifacturer and published on 'Aviation Week' circa 1967.
One other is the full scale mock-up of the Martin entry (rarely seen and still without known designation, I think).
The last is a cutaway drawing of the transport version of North American Na-300 (NA-301?).
Hoping you enjoy all

My dear Nico,

maybe they were from Garrett company,that is from Aviation magazine 1964,and this firm designed some aircraft;

 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    497.2 KB · Views: 158
  • 2.png
    2.png
    737.1 KB · Views: 150
  • 3.png
    3.png
    611.1 KB · Views: 195
Last edited:

riggerrob

I really should change my personal text
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
1,464
Reaction score
908
Yes
An interesting feature of this Martin proposal with its inverted v tail is the use of exhaust gases for tail plane steering augmentation at low flight speeds. The turboprop's exhaust gases are rooted within the tailbooms and exhausted over the rudders. It was developed and patented by Hans Multhopp, chief designer of the Ta-183, during his time at Martin.

Yes Basil,
Blown flaps were all the rage for heavily-loaded jets back during the 1960s. Bristol Buccaneer and Lockheed F-104 both had blown flaps to improve landing performance.
Blown control surfaces were needed to compensate for the short tail moment arm on LARA.
A disadvantage is that blowing hot air through tail booms vastly increases their heat signature at the same time that heat-seeking missiles were becoming fashionable.
The concept is being revived for the next generation of stealthy fighters to help reduce radar signature of aileron hinges.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

riggerrob

I really should change my personal text
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
1,464
Reaction score
908
It would be a very interesting book as the LARA project was basically devised by two USMC aviators at China Lake - Col. K.P. Rice (who designed the triple ejector rack) and Maj. William Beckett - who even started building their own prototype before the project was turned into a major quad service acquisition. Of course USAF managed to destroy the projects intent from inside as it would have undermined much of their air concept and perceived monopoly. The main idea of the LARA being a short wingspan and highly simple to fly and maintain aircraft that can be attached to infantry battalions and other units like a jeep or a small boat. The OV-10 is a great plane but it’s no LARA.
Does anyone have sketches or photos of the first LARA prototype built at China Lake by Rice and Beckett?
It will amusing to compare their concept with what finally entered service.
I just watched “Pentagon Wars” about how the U S Army procured the M2 Bradley armoured infantry fighting vehicle.
 
Last edited:

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,709
Reaction score
1,233
Pentagon Wars - a primer for anyone going into the Byzantine dungeon that is DoD acquisition.
 

Arjen

It's turtles all the way down
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,882
Reaction score
829
Or read the book of the same title by James G Burton.
 

Basil

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
286
Reaction score
72
Riggerrob,
yes, passing turbine gases through long fuselage pipes would probably need serious heat isolation of the ducts for the Martin concept - besides the loss of room for fuel. However when the gases reach the exhaust slot at the rudders they would have perhaps cooled off enough to provide no relevant heat signature for missiles.
Interesting - I did not know about the radar masking ability via hot gases.
 

jmspeedfreak

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
11
In terms of heat isolation as long as there is a reasonable flow of air over the transfer ducts they potentially wouldn't need much more than some basic heat-shielding. Lot of mixing at the rudder so potentially not the end of the world either - in any case the two engines would make a much more dominant target for an IR sensor surely?
 

jmspeedfreak

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
11
Really liked that Martin design, similar to the Charger but the exhaust blown tail would have helped a lot with some of the issues of the latter. Deep cambered flaps would drive a big nose down pitching moment so pitch authority at low speed to maintain positive AoA control would have made the handling a lot more direct (maybe, possibly, perhaps!)
 

jmspeedfreak

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
11
I realised this morning that it (looks like) the whole engine mass flow was going down the booms so definitely not just bleed air. I had an automotive program where close coupled catalysts at 900deg only required coated steel heatshield spaced less than 10mm off the cat to drop temps to under 180deg.C but I imagine inside the confines of the boom structure it could get pretty warm. I would expect they intended to have some cooling flow ducted in around the jetpipe to keep temperatures down. Actually ejecting the flow through the tail plane slots looks like a sensible way to reduce IR signature if anything.

Does anyone know if I could find a copy of the Martin proposal anywhere? I think some of the hardcore here ganged together to buy one off ebay(?)
 

AeroFranz

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,346
Reaction score
309
the only thing that would cause concern (at least IMHO) is that the pitch response is coupled with engine throttle with this type of blowing. I'm sure it can be solved somehow, but i don't know how much of a headache that would be.
 

jmspeedfreak

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
11
Brilliant, thanks Basil.
Our company has been working on very high power motors to drive empennage mounted compressors to achieve similar but with 'cold' air.
 

jmspeedfreak

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
15
Reaction score
11
Well described patent document, I was thinking the single side engine out issues for the tail ie. Loss of control authority; must have been a concern for the customer... Until I remembered that all the LARA concepts were essentially very vulnerable to this failure mode. All these concepts could be redusted off with electric distributed propulsion or hybrid systems to reduce the weakness of the aircraft in this regard.
 

allysonca

ACCESS: Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
220
Reaction score
442
Well, you may recall the build shots last July. FINALLY almost done with the Martin COIN.. A lot of fill in goodie projects were done in between and now I am close to the finish. I just mounted the la bombas and hopefully will get the Marine markings done in white in a few days. Will have to screen them since we can't do the usual LED prints. She's a big one... 16 inch wing span. Will do some beauty shots when all done. Enjoy...
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6292 2.jpg
    IMG_6292 2.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 150
  • IMG_6294.jpg
    IMG_6294.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 154
  • IMG_6293.jpg
    IMG_6293.jpg
    957.9 KB · Views: 184

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,119
Reaction score
5,629
Odd Info about ACME Proposal ?,

In the early 1960s resources were directed to a twin-jet amphibious Counter Insurgency fighter of the same general configuration, but with a fighter cockpit configuration and other accommodations. The COIN fighter selected at the time was North American OV-10A. I worked on ACME's COIN aircraft, but lost contact with the organization later in the '60s. (— Joseph F Smith Jr 3/18/04).

 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,119
Reaction score
5,629
In the early 1960s resources were directed to a twin-jet amphibious Counter Insurgency fighter of the same general configuration, but with a fighter cockpit configuration and other accommodations. The COIN fighter selected at the time was North American OV-10A. I worked on ACME's COIN aircraft, but lost contact with the organization later in the '60s. (— Joseph F Smith Jr 3/18/04).

Please can anyone make a drawing to this Project,it was based on ACME
A.1 Anser,with a tandem two-seat looks like OV-10,and a landplane version,
just a sketch if possible ?.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    27.9 KB · Views: 143

tab28682

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
32
Reaction score
56
While attending an outdoor meeting at the Fort Worth Aviation Museum this morning (assisting in a very small way with the restoration of YF-16 number 2), I ran across an interesting LARA artifact.

The OV-10 Association is part of the museum and in addition to two OV-10 aircraft, the original engineering mock-up of the OV-10 is on site, stashed in an open hangar. It is in fairly decent shape, overall. It had been restored elsewhere in 2001, but has spent some time outdoors over the past 19 years.

I was a bit pressed for time and only took three photos.

Note the original weapon wing fairings, horizontal instead of angled down. The weapon pylon was well populated with practice bombs, appearing to be non standard.

The last photo is of the last remanent of YOV-10A number 4, a right side tail boom and fin/rudder assembly, still bearing the Tri Service tail flash.
 

Attachments

  • 7E2DB7AA-A333-47ED-A0E1-4A9629280946.jpeg
    7E2DB7AA-A333-47ED-A0E1-4A9629280946.jpeg
    3.7 MB · Views: 85
  • F9401F13-8CB6-4E8C-835B-D5F8AE70A127.jpeg
    F9401F13-8CB6-4E8C-835B-D5F8AE70A127.jpeg
    4.2 MB · Views: 74
  • C37A3FDF-BEB4-41BF-B2D7-B8F80EC2E04C.jpeg
    C37A3FDF-BEB4-41BF-B2D7-B8F80EC2E04C.jpeg
    5 MB · Views: 83
Last edited:

riggerrob

I really should change my personal text
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
1,464
Reaction score
908
Riggerrob, .... Interesting - I did not know about the radar masking ability via hot gases.

Sorry Basil,
I did not mean to mis-lead you about next-generation stealth technology. "Stealthy" manufacturers are not telling me all their latest secrets.
I do not know if hot air confuses radar.
Hah!
Hah!
Rather I was referring to eliminating radar returns from gaps in the outer skin (e.g. aileron gaps). Instead of hinged control surfaces, next generation stealthy airplanes will have fixed surfaces and only tiny holes. Those tiny holes will blow out air to change boundary-layer airflow. They will steer by varying boundary-layer bleed-air. For example, if you want to turn left, you increase bleed air along the right side of the vertical fin, which increases "lift" towards the right, pointing the airplane nose to the left.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Top