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Kawanishi N1K "Shiden" unbuilt variants and derivatives

blackkite

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airman said:
How many aircraft were to be built in production plan ?
For example we know that for Mitsubishi Raiden the intention was to produce 500 aircraft for month .
Let me confirm this.
 

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blackkite said:
airman said:
How many aircraft were to be built in production plan ?
For example we know that for Mitsubishi Raiden the intention was to produce 500 aircraft for month .
Let me confirm this.
The reference for plan for 500 aircraft for month for Mitsubishi Raiden is "Caccia dell'Asse della Seconda Guerra Mondiale " or " German, Italian and Japanese Fighters of WWII" ( Pilot Press ) but published for the first time by Salamander Books .
 

blackkite

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Winston said:
blackkite said:
Is this a real one?
Is it slightly doubtful?
Yes the first one is clearly photoshopped.
Oh! I think the second one is so,too.
 

blackkite

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_N1K
Wikipedia says that
"Due to production difficulties and damage caused by B-29 Superfortress raids on Japanese factories, only 415 fighters were produced. Consequently, N1K2-J fighters were mainly issued to elite units like the IJN 343rd Air Group (343 Kōkūtai Naval Fighter Group), commanded by Minoru Genda that was constituted on 25 December 1944. The new 343rd Kōkūtai consisted of the best pilots, including Muto. The unit was issued the best equipment available and was also equipped with the new Nakajima C6N Saiun, codenamed "Myrt" long-range reconnaissance aircraft. On 18 March 1945, one of the "Myrts"' managed to spot U.S. carriers en route to Japan.
The following morning, 343 Kōkūtai‍ '​s Shidens intercepted 300 American aircraft. Many of the 343 Kōkūtai Shiden force were N1K2s. When the Shidens encountered VBF-17 Hellcats, three aircraft were lost on both sides in the initial attack; one Hellcat and two Shiden were shot down by enemy ground fire, two fighters collided in mid-air, and one Hellcat crashed while trying to land. Then the other Shiden dove on the Hellcats, downing another one. In the end, the 407 Hikōtai lost six fighters versus downing eight VBF-17 Hellcats.
In another encounter with VBF-10 Corsairs, two of the Corsairs were separated from the main formations, and then attacked by 343rd Shidens. Four N1K2s were shot down and the Corsairs managed to return to their carrier, USS Bunker Hill. An opportunity for revenge came when VFM-123 Corsairs were surprised by Shidens, initially mistaken for Hellcats. A 30-minute aerial duel ensued in which three Corsairs were shot down and another five were damaged. Three other F4Us which had landed on carriers were so heavily damaged that they had to be pushed into the sea. Of the 10 Japanese aircraft the Americans claimed, not one was effectively downed. Two Shidens however, were shot down at landing by Hellcats of VF-9. Many other Shidens were destroyed by American fighters over another airport, where they tried to land because they were low on fuel. At the end of the day, 343° declared 52 victories, U.S. fighters 63. The actual losses were 15 Shidens and 13 pilots, a "Myrt" with its three man crew, and nine other Japanese fighters. The U.S. also had heavy losses, with 14 fighters and seven pilots, and 11 other attack aircraft.
Five days later, an unofficial award was sent to 343 Kōkūtai for the valour shown on 19 March. On 12 April 1945 another fierce battle involved 343°, during Kikusui N.2. The Japanese scored several victories but suffered 12 losses out of 34 machines. On 4 May, another 24 Shidens were sent in Kikusui N.5.
In every case, the Shiden, especially the Kai version, proved to be a capable dogfighter with a great combination of firepower, agility and a rugged structure. The premier unit flying the Shiden, 343 Kōkūtai remained operational until the overwhelming unit losses led to the eventual retirement of the unit. The 343° was disbanded on 14 August 1945, when the Emperor ordered surrender."

So the gun camera of F6F and F4U had the possibility to catch flying Shiden-kai.
 

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blackkite said:
Winston said:
blackkite said:
Is this a real one?
Is it slightly doubtful?
Yes the first one is clearly photoshopped.
Oh! I think the second one is so,too.
Definitely. In the first one, the nose droops a little too much on the aircraft in the foreground. In the second one, it seems to me that all three aircraft are the same one reproduced and slightly altered.
 

blackkite

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Hmmm........What a pity.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Shiden movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuqNRmf78hA
 

blackkite

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Hi! Shiden-kai mivies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1CruIR69RM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQd3GDZkDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPLKQMHJxwc
 

blackkite

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Hi! Another Shiden-kai movie.
Perhaps you can see actual Shiden-kai flight scene in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWaWJ3dxtDU
 

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blackkite said:
Hi! Another Shiden-kai movie.
Perhaps you can see actual Shiden-kai flight scene in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWaWJ3dxtDU
very awesome movies about this beautiful and deadly hellcat killer Blackkite san!
 

blackkite

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Hi T-50 san!
This video has the miserable scene by which Shiden-kai shoots down F6F. I was quite shocked. The war isn't really good. :'(
White smoke is gun smoke?
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVLxu5USK6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh3FFEK2ME4
 

blackkite

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Hi!

点火栓: Ignition plug, 気化器 : Vaporizer or Carburetor, 配電器 : Power distributor、プロペラピッチ調速器 : Propeller pitch governor, 過給器 : Supercharger,
吸気管 : Air inlet pipe, 主オイル溜まり : Center oil collection, 気筒頭オイル溜まり : Cylinder head oil collection,
減速室下部オイル溜まり : Reduction gear room lower part oil collection
 

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windswords

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Justo,

Your profiles above say "Speculative Drawings". Does that mean they were proposals made by the Navy or Kawanishi or are they "what ifs" created after the war?

thanks!
 

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There is an important difference between "Speculative" and "What if"
 

Stargazer2006

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Justo Miranda said:
There is an important difference between "Speculative" and "What if"
Indeed. Besides it's not the version which is described as "speculative", only the drawings. The way I understand it is that it's the artist's tentative interpretation of what the aircraft might have looked like from the various bits of info at his disposal.
 

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Justo,

To clarify, I know about the rocket propelled pack for the N1K (as well as the 3 rockets for the D4Y4). But the drawing looks different (6 rockets instead of 4) and the first planes arrangement of a single rocket and a bomb I have not seen before. I also have not seen any reference to a "Kokoku Heiki 1-Go series". Is there any reference to it? It's always great to learn something new! The belly rocket pack is well known to me. Is the first plane with the rocket and bomb depicting the N1J1-J Kai model 11 George mentioned in your reply? By the way your art work is top notch! ;D
 

blackkite

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Shiden fighter had the skip bombing experimental variant called "Maru J" which loaded a bomb and a rocket for acceleration on a body underside.
Very famous Shizuo Kikuhara who participated in a design of a Shiden fighter told as follows.
"This arcraft installed one 250kg bomb in the center of the body, and was equipped with 6 solid rockets in the either side, and the whole was wrapped in a streamline cover. 2 planes were made.

Source : Koku Fan magazine,April 1960.(Not April Fools' Day ;D)
 

blackkite

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I found this Maru J(マル J) drawing. Bomb position is good.(Near C.G.) Is this a 250kg bomb?
I think that the middle drawing is suspicious. Expected bomb position is little strange. Take off is impossible. Tail heavy.

Top and bottom drawing source : 局地戦闘機 紫電改 Interceptor Shiden-kai, Gakken, 15/1/2000, ISBN4-05-602064-7 C9421
 

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It looks like the belly pack has openings for 6 rockets (3 per side). But I read there were only 4 rockets (Just as it says on the caption of the NARA photo posted by Justo). Could there be another use for the extra pair of openings? Or were two belly packs designed, one with 4 rockets and one with 6 rockets?
 

blackkite

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This drawing is good except rocket booster and pod front shape. ;D
 

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windswords

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The D4Y4 Suisei model 43 had a belly pack with 3 rockets for Kamikaze missions. Was the experimental rocket pack for the N1K for suicide missions as well?
 

blackkite

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windswords said:
The D4Y4 Suisei model 43 had a belly pack with 3 rockets for Kamikaze missions. Was the experimental rocket pack for the N1K for suicide missions as well?
Suisei type 43 carrier dive bomber was a simplified version which abolished a rear seat, strengthened the shellproof equipment and abolished a bomb storehouse door.
D4Y4 was possible to load one 800kg bomb, is often generally recognized as the special attack version.
D4Y4 was also considered to add 5 speeding up rockets(4 shiki 1 go rocket, each thrust : 800kg), actually, in the body lower part, a rocket wrap, a notch of wear was made, but it was non-equipment actually.
When it was equipped with a rocket, an aerodynamic problem formed, and there was a fear that the performance falls.
Source : Japanese wikipedia

最大の特徴は胴体下部の両側に各1本(離陸用)、本来の後部座席下に3本(加速用)、計5本の増速用ロケットが装着された。ただし後に離陸用として設けられた両側の2本は廃止され、さらに加速用も3本から2本に減らされた。(主に重量軽減のため)
Greatest feature is to had speed increasing five rockets, three were located under the rear seat of the original, two were located each side of the bottom of the fuselage. However both sides two rockets provided for take-off were abolished, further rocket reduced to two from three. (Because of the weight saving mainly)
 

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blackkite

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Excellet drawing! Thanks a lot justo-san. :D
I surprize that Shiden type 11 had a fuel cooler! Fuel tank located just after hot engine.
 

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A question about the correct N1K5-J if i may again. In the drawing on the first page it shows extented eliptical wingtips (sort-of like Spitfire) however factory drawings shows standard wingtips. So the drawing with eliptical wingtips is only speculation, is that correct?


Many thanks again.
 

blackkite

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You mean this drawing? Let me check this again.
I think this drawing is not a factory drawing, but based on correct information.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3494.0;attach=146605;image
 

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Hi Blackkite,

Yes that is the one. I have just realized though that the extended wing Shiden seems to be powered by a Homare (i can see no side intakes, and it has individual ejector exhausts) and presumably it has nothing to do with the side view of the MK9 powered Shiden above it?

Now as to that MK9 powered Shiden, i see it has side engine intake behind the gills, and i was intially thinking this must be a feature of all MK9 engines with mechanical superchargers, but i recalled that the A7M2 does not have such intakes! So is that a MK9A powered N1K5-J, or the engine might be a two stage 3 speed MK9C ( like A7M3)?
 

blackkite

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lancer21 said:
A question about the correct N1K5-J if i may again. In the drawing on the first page it shows extented eliptical wingtips (sort-of like Spitfire) however factory drawings shows standard wingtips. So the drawing with eliptical wingtips is only speculation, is that correct?


Many thanks again.
Rikyu Watanabe shows us detailed dimension for steel made Shiden-kai(紫電改 鋼製型) plan. Perhaps he got detail data of this plan.
Span is 13.923m.(7m×cos 6°×2=13.923m) ;D
This plan is not N1K5-J. Correct name is unknown.
紫電 : Shiden, 改 : kai(modification), 鋼 : steel, 製 : made of, 型 : type
Source : FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD No.124.
 

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lancer21

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Thank you for the details.

Blackkite-san, on another note, has there any WW2 footage of the N1K1-J and/or N1K2-J survived? On youtube (Mitupuu's channel) there is some wonderful footage of J2M, Ki-84, Ki-61, Ki-44 and many more fighters, bombers and other types (in fact most of the major japanese WW2 aircraft are covered), but i have never seen anything with the Shiden. :-\
 

blackkite

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Hi! Shiden-kai N1K2-J.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwQs3rJdnY
 
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