KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

[AnonSB]

If they sell one to the PAF they may as well send one to China. Same thing these days.

Do you mean by the Pakistani Air Force?

What I intended was the Phillippines

Not as clear as Pakistan but the Philippines are definitely in the Chinese camp as well.

Could be, could not be. Philippine may be economically dependent to China, but otoh there are ongoing conflicts around South China Sea.

Well Philippine is already a customer of various Korean weapon systems so...

 

[helmutkohl]

If they sell one to the PAF they may as well send one to China. Same thing these days.

Do you mean by the Pakistani Air Force?

What I intended was the Phillippines

Not as clear as Pakistan but the Philippines are definitely in the Chinese camp as well.

not really. they have a major territorial dispute with the PRC

 

[sferrin]

If they sell one to the PAF they may as well send one to China. Same thing these days.

Do you mean by the Pakistani Air Force?

What I intended was the Phillippines

Not as clear as Pakistan but the Philippines are definitely in the Chinese camp as well.

not really. they have a major territorial dispute with the PRC

Will Provide Military Base To US During China-Taiwan Conflict - Another Country Joins Bandwagon Against Beijing But With A Caveat

In what could come as a deeply unsettling announcement for China, the Philippines' ambassador to the US has made comments which could usher in potential American-Filipino cooperation against Beijing.

eurasiantimes.com

Could have sworn I saw a few months ago that China was building a naval base in the Philippines, or going to use an existing one.

Looks like it was this, in Cambodia:

New Chinese Naval Base Raises Stakes in Southeast Asia

A new naval facility in Cambodia is a clear sign of Beijing’s increasingly robust power projection in Asia-Pacific

time.com

Maybe Philippines would be okay.

 

[helmutkohl]

If they sell one to the PAF they may as well send one to China. Same thing these days.

Do you mean by the Pakistani Air Force?

What I intended was the Phillippines

Not as clear as Pakistan but the Philippines are definitely in the Chinese camp as well.

not really. they have a major territorial dispute with the PRC

Will Provide Military Base To US During China-Taiwan Conflict - Another Country Joins Bandwagon Against Beijing But With A Caveat

In what could come as a deeply unsettling announcement for China, the Philippines' ambassador to the US has made comments which could usher in potential American-Filipino cooperation against Beijing.

eurasiantimes.com

Could have sworn I saw a few months ago that China was building a naval base in the Philippines, or going to use an existing one.

Philippines has firmly been in the US camp for most of its post WW2 history. There was a period when during the Duterte administration, they tried to warm up to China and distance themselves from the US, in hopes the CCP would change their minds on the territorial dispute.
But the CCP still maintained their stance, and in many cases, were more aggressive in their claims, and so the Philippines is back to the US camp again.

I would say the countries close to China in Asia, is Cambodia and Pakistan.. and to a lesser extent Laos and Myanmar.

 

[sferrin]

If they sell one to the PAF they may as well send one to China. Same thing these days.

Do you mean by the Pakistani Air Force?

What I intended was the Phillippines

Not as clear as Pakistan but the Philippines are definitely in the Chinese camp as well.

not really. they have a major territorial dispute with the PRC

Will Provide Military Base To US During China-Taiwan Conflict - Another Country Joins Bandwagon Against Beijing But With A Caveat

In what could come as a deeply unsettling announcement for China, the Philippines' ambassador to the US has made comments which could usher in potential American-Filipino cooperation against Beijing.

eurasiantimes.com

Could have sworn I saw a few months ago that China was building a naval base in the Philippines, or going to use an existing one.

Philippines has firmly been in the US camp for most of its post WW2 history. There was a period when during the Duterte administration, they tried to warm up to China and distance themselves from the US, in hopes the CCP would change their minds on the territorial dispute.
But the CCP still maintained their stance, and in many cases, were more aggressive in their claims, and so the Philippines is back to the US camp again.

I would say the countries close to China in Asia, is Cambodia and Pakistan.. and to a lesser extent Laos and Myanmar.

Yep. Found the source of my confusion and edited my post.

 

[FighterJock]

If they sell one to the PAF they may as well send one to China. Same thing these days.

Do you mean by the Pakistani Air Force?

What I intended was the Phillippines

Not as clear as Pakistan but the Philippines are definitely in the Chinese camp as well.

I did not realise that the Philippines were friendly with the Chinese as well, looks like they might go for the JF-31 in that case if Pakistan orders some, though it depends on how much the KF-21's export variant cost's compared with the JF-31.

 

[GTX]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

 

[helmutkohl]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc
a stark change from the 90s and 2000s when they kept on using even WW2 and 50-60s era equipment

All part of Duterte's AFP modernization act which is set to enter phase 3. since the new administration is led by his ally and daughter, I suspect they will continue this policy.

 

[starviking]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc
a stark change from the 90s and 2000s when they kept on using even WW2 and 50-60s era equipment

All part of Duterte's AFP modernization act which is set to enter phase 3. since the new administration is led by his ally and daughter, I suspect they will continue this policy.

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Hopefully they have a good handle on the logistics of their modernization, and leave themselves in the situation where any future expansion will be as smooth as possible.

 

[helmutkohl]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc
a stark change from the 90s and 2000s when they kept on using even WW2 and 50-60s era equipment

All part of Duterte's AFP modernization act which is set to enter phase 3. since the new administration is led by his ally and daughter, I suspect they will continue this policy.

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Hopefully they have a good handle on the logistics of their modernization, and leave themselves in the situation where any future expansion will be as smooth as possible.

tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they did buy the KF-21.. but like 4-6 of them tops.

 

[FighterJock]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc
a stark change from the 90s and 2000s when they kept on using even WW2 and 50-60s era equipment

All part of Duterte's AFP modernization act which is set to enter phase 3. since the new administration is led by his ally and daughter, I suspect they will continue this policy.

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Hopefully they have a good handle on the logistics of their modernization, and leave themselves in the situation where any future expansion will be as smooth as possible.

tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they did buy the KF-21.. but like 4-6 of them tops.

Philippines buying only 4/6 KF-21s? I would have thought that one or two squadrons worth would be enough. By the way what fighters are the Philippine Air Force currently flying?

 

[Umigami]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc
a stark change from the 90s and 2000s when they kept on using even WW2 and 50-60s era equipment

All part of Duterte's AFP modernization act which is set to enter phase 3. since the new administration is led by his ally and daughter, I suspect they will continue this policy.

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Hopefully they have a good handle on the logistics of their modernization, and leave themselves in the situation where any future expansion will be as smooth as possible.

tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they did buy the KF-21.. but like 4-6 of them tops.

Philippines buying only 4/6 KF-21s? I would have thought that one or two squadrons worth would be enough. By the way what fighters are the Philippine Air Force currently flying?

FA50

 

[FighterJock]

As already stated, the Phillipines will be unlikely to be able to afford.

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc
a stark change from the 90s and 2000s when they kept on using even WW2 and 50-60s era equipment

All part of Duterte's AFP modernization act which is set to enter phase 3. since the new administration is led by his ally and daughter, I suspect they will continue this policy.

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Hopefully they have a good handle on the logistics of their modernization, and leave themselves in the situation where any future expansion will be as smooth as possible.

tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they did buy the KF-21.. but like 4-6 of them tops.

Philippines buying only 4/6 KF-21s? I would have thought that one or two squadrons worth would be enough. By the way what fighters are the Philippine Air Force currently flying?

FA50

Thanks Umigami. Also, how many fighter squadrons do the Philippine Air Force have currently.

 

[CV12Hornet]

Thanks Umigami. Also, how many fighter squadrons do the Philippine Air Force have currently.

One.

 

[GTX]

I would have thought that one or two squadrons worth would be enough.

Dreams vs reality...

They currently have 12 FA-50PH aircraft and not all are serviceable.

 

[GTX]

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Putting some context:

12 x KAI FA-50PH - basically armed trainers
2 x T-129 with 4 more on order - a light attack helicopter
2 x Jose Rizal-class frigates
2 x HDC-3100 Corvette - in construction
3 x batteries (thus an estimated 27 missiles) of land-based BrahMos Missile
18 x Sabrah light tanks - based off the ASCOD IFV platform

And to be completely honest, it wasn't Duterte who is the architect of this as The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) Modernization Act, was originally kicked off in the mid 1990s by President Ramos.

 

[starviking]

to be fair
the Philippines has recently been very aggressive in updating their hardware in the last 10 years
New T-129s, FA-50s, frigates, corvettes, Brahmos missiles, Sabrah tanks, etc

True, but they do seem to be buying things in very small numbers.

Putting some context:

12 x KAI FA-50PH - basically armed trainers
2 x T-129 with 4 more on order - a light attack helicopter
2 x Jose Rizal-class frigates
2 x HDC-3100 Corvette - in construction
3 x batteries (thus an estimated 27 missiles) of land-based BrahMos Missile
18 x Sabrah light tanks - based off the ASCOD IFV platform

And to be completely honest, it wasn't Duterte who is the architect of this as The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) Modernization Act, was originally kicked off in the mid 1990s by President Ramos.

+ 2 Wildcat Helicopters

 

[Deino]

Guys, are we in the KF-21 thread or do we discuss here the Philippine's politics and economics?

 

[AnonSB]

KAI revealed a model of naval variant of KF-21, KF-21N, at DX KOREA 2022



The argument to develop the new variant gained momentum after the reconsideration of CVX program ; the assessment process that compares the STOVL carrier with F-35Bs and the bigger CATOBAR/STOBAR carrier with possible KF-21Ns or F-35Cs is now in progress

 

[FighterJock]

The argument to develop the new variant gained momentum after the reconsideration of CVX program ; the assessment process that compares the STOVL carrier with F-35Bs and the bigger CATOBAR/STOBAR carrier with possible KF-21Ns or F-35Cs is now in progress

Liking the sound of that, a naval variant of the Boramae onboard South Korean future CVX carriers I would think that the best option would be to go for the CATOBAR carriers because of the extra maximum take off weight a naval Boramae could carry and bring back.

 

[litzj]

KAI revealed a model of naval variant of KF-21, KF-21N, at DX KOREA 2022

View attachment 684299

The argument to develop the new variant gained momentum after the reconsideration of CVX program ; the assessment process that compares the STOVL carrier with F-35Bs and the bigger CATOBAR/STOBAR carrier with possible KF-21Ns or F-35Cs is now in progress

Also, it respresents Supersonic ramjet air-to-ground or ship missile.

It would provide stronger capability

 

[raptor82]

KF-21N：
length：17.1m （KF-21: 16.9m）
wingspan：12.3m （KF-21: 11.2m）
height：5.2m （KF-21: 4.7m）
MTOW：25600kg （KF-21: 25400kg）
payload： 7620kg （KF-21：7700kg）

Max speed：M1.6 （KF-21： M1.8）

 

[TomcatViP]

Interesting numbers: more wing, more tail, more rudder.

 

[FighterJock]

KF-21N：
length：17.1m （KF-21: 16.9m）
wingspan：12.3m （KF-21: 11.2m）
height：5.2m （KF-21: 4.7m）
MTOW：25600kg （KF-21: 25400kg）
payload： 7620kg （KF-21：7700kg）

Max speed：M1.6 （KF-21： M1.8）


View attachment 684365

One thing that puzzles me about the picture of the navalised variant of the KF-21N is that it is shown with the same layout as the Air Force KF-21, I am sure that by the time that the naval variant is designed they would have put in internal weapon’s bays instead of being semi recessed.

 

[AnonSB]

KF-21N：
length：17.1m （KF-21: 16.9m）
wingspan：12.3m （KF-21: 11.2m）
height：5.2m （KF-21: 4.7m）
MTOW：25600kg （KF-21: 25400kg）
payload： 7620kg （KF-21：7700kg）

Max speed：M1.6 （KF-21： M1.8）


View attachment 684365

One thing that puzzles me about the picture of the navalised variant of the KF-21N is that it is shown with the same layout as the Air Force KF-21, I am sure that by the time that the naval variant is designed they would have put in internal weapon’s bays instead of being semi recessed.

It depends.

According to the current timetable of the research process, presented by ADD, the technologies needed to develop a full-fledged 5+ Gen fighter jet (which is, probably KF-21 Block III) will be available around 2027; the internal weapons bay, on-board EOTS, conformal antenna, advanced RAS and RAM, indigenous turbofan engines, and etc., are planned to be first utilized and tested on the prototype of the KUS-LW, the Korean Loyal Wingman, around 2025-2027. Making the KF-21 Block III will be the next step, so it should begin in 2028 even if all the things were finished in time with no delays.

Given that the CVX is expected to launch and to be commissioned around early to mid-2030s, the chance of the naval variant of Block III being available before the launch is quite low, unless the RoK gov't decides to make both the Block III's airforce variant and the naval variant at the same time.

 

[FighterJock]

KF-21N：
length：17.1m （KF-21: 16.9m）
wingspan：12.3m （KF-21: 11.2m）
height：5.2m （KF-21: 4.7m）
MTOW：25600kg （KF-21: 25400kg）
payload： 7620kg （KF-21：7700kg）

Max speed：M1.6 （KF-21： M1.8）


View attachment 684365

One thing that puzzles me about the picture of the navalised variant of the KF-21N is that it is shown with the same layout as the Air Force KF-21, I am sure that by the time that the naval variant is designed they would have put in internal weapon’s bays instead of being semi recessed.

It depends.

According to the current timetable of the research process, presented by ADD, the technologies needed to develop a full-fledged 5+ Gen fighter jet (which is, probably KF-21 Block III) will be available around 2027; the internal weapons bay, on-board EOTS, conformal antenna, advanced RAS and RAM, indigenous turbofan engines, and etc., are planned to be first utilized and tested on the prototype of the KUS-LW, the Korean Loyal Wingman, around 2025-2027. Making the KF-21 Block III will be the next step, so it should begin in 2028 even if all the things were finished in time with no delays.

Given that the CVX is expected to launch and to be commissioned around early to mid-2030s, the chance of the naval variant of Block III being available before the launch is quite low, unless the RoK gov't decides to make both the Block III's airforce variant and the naval variant in the same time.

I want both block 3 variants of the KF-21 to be designed and built at the same time, as far as I can see it would not be that difficult to do both the naval and Air Force variants together even if it means that there is a slight delay to get them both to active squadrons.

 

[sferrin]

KAI revealed a model of naval variant of KF-21, KF-21N, at DX KOREA 2022

View attachment 684299

The argument to develop the new variant gained momentum after the reconsideration of CVX program ; the assessment process that compares the STOVL carrier with F-35Bs and the bigger CATOBAR/STOBAR carrier with possible KF-21Ns or F-35Cs is now in progress

Also, it respresents Supersonic ramjet air-to-ground or ship missile.

It would provide stronger capability

New Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile for South Korea's KF-X Breaks Cover - Naval News

The first artist impression of a new supersonic anti-ship missile for South Korea's KF-X fighter has been released.

www.navalnews.com

 

[helmutkohl]

this would be a good chance to invite India to join a naval KF-21 instead of going alone for a small number of TEDBFs, especially given that the KF-21 is actually flying.

 

[helmutkohl]

a pretty good video of the KF-21N model. whoever took the video did a good job of going through all the angles and details.
you can also see a comparison with the regular KF-21 model too

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3da8zD_fWw

 

[GTX]

this would be a good chance to invite India to join a naval KF-21 instead of going alone for a small number of TEDBFs, especially given that the KF-21 is actually flying.

Doubt that will happen - too much ego riding on Tejas.

 

[aonestudio]

KAI unveils KF-21N carrier-borne aircraft at DX Korea 2022 expo - Naval News

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) unveiled a scale model of the KF-21N during DX Korea 2022. It is the carrier-borne version of the company's indigenous 4.5-generation fighter jet known as KF-21 / KFX project and is intended for the CVX aircraft carrier program.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1573621053288751104

 

[AnonSB]

View: https://youtu.be/BMhMOjjhg5o


An official footage of the test flight, now with the landing gears retracted.

 

[Umigami]

Indonesia Stay

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575061538616258561

 

[TomcatViP]

That what we can call a gentle stall. Congrats to all the FBW computer nerds that can now probably claim to be on par with Europe's best Athletes... Oh wait, let's not (over) complicate the thing.

 

[stealthflanker]

Looking forward for weapon release test.

 

[FighterJock]

Looking forward for weapon release test.

Same here stealthflanker. Let’s see the Boramae launch weapons, no doubt it will be interesting to watch.

 

[Umigami]

Looking forward for weapon release test.

I bet meteor first

 

[GTX]

(Yonhap Interview) KF-21 expected to reach supersonic speeds in early 2023: arms agency chief | Yonhap News Agency

By Song Sang-ho SEOUL, Sept. 29 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's homegrown KF-21 fighter j...

en.yna.co.kr

 

[H_K]

Good: up to 3 test flights per day

Just OK: Fairly slow ramp-up to supersonic flight (6+ months)… going to be hard to wrap up development by 2026 at this rate.

Not good: Still waiting for Indonesia to pay its share!