KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

Maro.Kyo

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recent article talking about the integration of various air to ground missiles on both the FA-50 and KF-21. basically the Taurus series and LIG
its interesting to note how many European missiles the KF-21 is planned to operate. its basically a Eurofighter but Korean
it says it would take 2 years to integrate or something like that


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Nope. The ALCM that's going to be integrated to KF-X is being developed by ADD and LIG Nex1.

There are 3 ALCM programs currently known, of which 2 are official. First is the Taurus KEPD-350K procurement for the F-15K. Second is the LIG Nex1 ALCM program, dubbed the "Long Range Air to Ground Missile" program. LRAGM is placed roughly in the same category to the KEPD-350K, so 500+ km max range and 1,000+ lbs warhead.

LRAGM is currently under development. It will be developed by 2028 at latest, when the block 2 of KF-X is to be finished, and will be tested onboard the F-4s. Since phantom's avionics are too old to handle such advanced munition, testing scheme has been arranged in such way that the LRAGM is connected to an external mission computer, mounted externally in form of a fuel tank-looking pod. This I've hear was due to the fact that ROKAF was reluctant of providing their F-16PBU for testing purposes. Other aircrafts in ROKAF would be hard to be used for such purposes considering the fact that they haven't got much control over its source codes. FA-50 will be too small as well.

21915-51756-sampleM.jpg

The name of the missile itself btw is Chunryong, which dubs as "Sky Dragon". Sounds like crap but believe me, it doesn't sound that bad in Korean.

Then there is this program which is called the "Medium Range Air to Ground Missile". This program is currently going through ROKAF internal feasibility studies I've heard, which means nothing of it is official. ROKAF thinks that this program is not really urgent, since it will be primarily be used by the FA-50, replacing the Pre-ATO allocated to the F-4s' Popeyes. There currently 2 offers regarding this program, which are from Hanwha and Taurus GmbH(so MBDA, kinda).

Hamhwa is offering a license produced Roketsan SOM. Discussion between Hanwha and Roketsan seems to have been in place even prior to 2019 it seems. This makes sense for both parties, since Hanwha lost to LIG in LRAGM program and Roketsan lost its sales prospect for SOM-J after Turkey's expulsion from the JSF program.

Taurus on the other hand is offering what is known as the KEPD 350K-2, a smaller version of KEPD 350. I should say it reminds me of the old KEPD 150 a bit as well. Their original goal was to offer it to ROKAF as an ALCM for their F-16 fleet. For such reason it weighed around 1,100 kgs, meaning that its use on FA-50s would have been unsuitable. Then they've chamged their target as ALCM small enough to be operated by the FA-50, further minimizing its size into a sub-700 kg class ALCM. It has been revealed in the interview with president of Taurus Systems Korea last November, that Taurus Systems have sent RFI for possible joint,development to several entities within Korea, ramging from gov. agencies like ADD to private companies like Hanwha, KAI, LIG, etc.

I personally favor Taurus' offer for MRAGM over SOM for obvious reasons, including maintenace commonalities.
 

Maro.Kyo

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its interesting to note how many European missiles the KF-21 is planned to operate. its basically a Eurofighter but Korean
Not really as of now. There are only two confirmed European munition, namely the Meteor and IRIS-T, to be integrated into KF-X. I wouldn't say that's a whole lot.

There are a few offers from Europe for sure though. Apart from the afforementioned KEPD 350K and 350K-2 (which Taurus Systems are also arguing that it could be operated by the KF-X as well), MBDA UK for instance is offering SPEAR, including the EW variant for the KF-X.

On the other hand, there are discussions being held about possible plans to develop Korean SRAAM, BVRAAM, Korean JDAM-esque counterpart and ARM in the near future. Currently ARM (coupled with Korean HTS-like anti-radiation target acquisition pod) seems like the most likely candidate to follow suit of LRAGM. Especially considering the fact that there are plans to develop KF-X based escort jammer. Apart from those possible Korean munitions replacing the European ones, KGGB and C-star would also be integrated into KF-X block II afaik.

Having a Korean platfor to work around really opens up a wide range of possibilities. For instance C-star's air-launched variant have been tested almost a decade ago already but was not able to replace the Harpoons on the KF-16 for obvious reasons.
 

Combat-Master

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So, yeah. i think i get a bit of "systematic" here. Finally.

Now i got both Armed and unarmed version "looked" in the X-band (8 GHz). The polarization is Horizontal, while the "look angle" is basically what i consider the Frontal aspect (-45 deg to 45 deg Horizotal with 65-110 Deg vertical) The materials are still PEC but the Inlet are shut off due to reason mentioned some messages above. No RAM is assumed yet.

The Armed versionThe Unarmed version
c-107withweapons-png.656172
View attachment 656495
Their respective 3D view
x-band-kfxconf-png.656173
View attachment 656496
The 2D projection of the above
kfx-conformal-weapons-x-band-png.656177
View attachment 656494


The differences are very evident between the conformal storage vs flying clean. The 2D projection plot has been "equalized" So the colors are comparable. Unfortunately the ANSYS just not allow me to use same color conversion. So only the max and minimum value are the same.

"Statistically" however in terms of Median. it doesnt seem to look much. probably because i take all the value into the Median.

View attachment 656497

The frequencies are as follows :
VHF is 0.15 GHz or 150 MHz, used by things like P-18, P-14 and probably Nebo UE
L-band is 1 GHz used by Long range air defense Radar like say the Seek Iglo
S-band is 3 GHz used by things like typical air defense radar and AEW
X-band is 8 GHz to represent fighter or SAM Radar's.

I would love to use more representative 9500-11000 MHz but the Simulation just take forever, the X-band took about 8 Hours. i started from 1.15 AM and finished at about 9.49 AM. and i'm but one man with only one PC. Conversion is possible tho through use of simple rule of thumb of wavelength dependence of RCS.

Anyway... What to do after estimating the RCS value ? Well naturally for me and hopefully Indonesian in general. This offers at very least a leap in terms of learning as KF-21 again.. would offer a low signature target, giving a new challenge to our fighter pilots who at best handling 1 Sqm target (T-50 Golden eagle) Now they will have more representative 12 dB lower regional challenge in terms of RCS. Might not be as low as what potentially FC-31 or other LO targets but still.

What type of 3D model are you using to compute RCS? I have GLB file of Turkey's 5th gen fighter plane, would it possible to use it with your programme ?
 

Umigami

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So, yeah. i think i get a bit of "systematic" here. Finally.

Now i got both Armed and unarmed version "looked" in the X-band (8 GHz). The polarization is Horizontal, while the "look angle" is basically what i consider the Frontal aspect (-45 deg to 45 deg Horizotal with 65-110 Deg vertical) The materials are still PEC but the Inlet are shut off due to reason mentioned some messages above. No RAM is assumed yet.

The Armed versionThe Unarmed version
c-107withweapons-png.656172
View attachment 656495
Their respective 3D view
x-band-kfxconf-png.656173
View attachment 656496
The 2D projection of the above
kfx-conformal-weapons-x-band-png.656177
View attachment 656494


The differences are very evident between the conformal storage vs flying clean. The 2D projection plot has been "equalized" So the colors are comparable. Unfortunately the ANSYS just not allow me to use same color conversion. So only the max and minimum value are the same.

"Statistically" however in terms of Median. it doesnt seem to look much. probably because i take all the value into the Median.

View attachment 656497

The frequencies are as follows :
VHF is 0.15 GHz or 150 MHz, used by things like P-18, P-14 and probably Nebo UE
L-band is 1 GHz used by Long range air defense Radar like say the Seek Iglo
S-band is 3 GHz used by things like typical air defense radar and AEW
X-band is 8 GHz to represent fighter or SAM Radar's.

I would love to use more representative 9500-11000 MHz but the Simulation just take forever, the X-band took about 8 Hours. i started from 1.15 AM and finished at about 9.49 AM. and i'm but one man with only one PC. Conversion is possible tho through use of simple rule of thumb of wavelength dependence of RCS.

Anyway... What to do after estimating the RCS value ? Well naturally for me and hopefully Indonesian in general. This offers at very least a leap in terms of learning as KF-21 again.. would offer a low signature target, giving a new challenge to our fighter pilots who at best handling 1 Sqm target (T-50 Golden eagle) Now they will have more representative 12 dB lower regional challenge in terms of RCS. Might not be as low as what potentially FC-31 or other LO targets but still.
Please calculate with full meteor on underbelly and 2 iris-t on wing?
Do 2 small aam on wing effect RCS that much?
 

Maro.Kyo

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Media these days... If I'll tell you anyone not to trust, it would be Korean news outlet concerning military affairs and those who translate their articles to publish their own. After that article was published DAPA immediately responded that the aircraft is currently fully assembled.

Hastily my arse. I've gotta tell that idiot that the original rollout schedule was May not April.

My advice is that you only trust those news from well known medias like Janes, FG, Naval News, etc concerning infos around Korean stuff. Those guys either have their own Korean reporters or come to Korea themselves. It's hard for foreigners to know if a Korean news is trustworthy or not. The author of the original source btw was angry that he wasn't able to take a picture of the prototype when he visited KAI. What a child.
 
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stealthflanker

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helmutkohl

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great firsthand report from the assembly line


some key points
- noted 5 prototypes on the assembly line
- 1 year of ground testing
- 2nd prototype doing missile loading tests
- super smooth rivets that cant be felt
- 9 fuel tanks attached to the plane (how many do other similar jets have?)
 

helmutkohl

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I think they are internal fuel tanks and that's the translation that made it as if they had to be attached.
yes thats how i interpreted as well. 9 sections internally for fuel.
but usually how many sections do other planes have?
 

helmutkohl

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it seems Japanese media took the fake rumors of the KF-21 being disassembled to seriously and even some netizens claiming its just a model.
so much jelly I feel. how fast bad rumors spread


i also did a quick lazy photoshop of how it would look in Indian colors
Screen Shot 2021-06-22 at 17.35.44.png
 

FighterJock

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it seems Japanese media took the fake rumors of the KF-21 being disassembled to seriously and even some netizens claiming its just a model.
so much jelly I feel. how fast bad rumors spread


i also did a quick lazy photoshop of how it would look in Indian colors
View attachment 659466

Would the Indian Air Force buy it though? As they are currently designing their own stealth aircraft the MCA.
 

MihoshiK

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it seems Japanese media took the fake rumors of the KF-21 being disassembled to seriously and even some netizens claiming its just a model.
so much jelly I feel. how fast bad rumors spread


i also did a quick lazy photoshop of how it would look in Indian colors
View attachment 659466

Would the Indian Air Force buy it though? As they are currently designing their own stealth aircraft the MCA.
And it will fly in twenty years, and be as stealthy as one of the European Gen 4.5 fighters. I will also only carry half the load the designers promised.
 

Deino

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it seems Japanese media took the fake rumors of the KF-21 being disassembled to seriously and even some netizens claiming its just a model.
so much jelly I feel. how fast bad rumors spread


i also did a quick lazy photoshop of how it would look in Indian colors
View attachment 659466



Oh well I already see posts from certain Indian fan-boys soon popping out of the green like mushrooms after a warm summer rain and claiming
"Look, we have our own fifth generation type and it is NOT a copy like the Chinese fighter and is better, much better!" ;)
 

sferrin

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As with the F-22, the airframe packaging LM came up with is astonishingly efficient,
I am being admittedly picky here, but if sacrificing supersonic performance is the price, then is not so astonishing.
What did they "sacrifice" in speed? The F-22A is faster than the YF-22 was. Both meet the requirements for speed.
 

FighterJock

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^ certain news media seem to scan this thread, as I've found my poor photoshops on certain media and news sites

well heres one more KF-21 and the AMCA

View attachment 659481

The AMCA by the looks of things has the edge in stealth by having an internal weapons bay, whereas the KF-21 has gone without an internal weapons bay for the initial production variants for some strange reason.
 

kaiserd

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^ certain news media seem to scan this thread, as I've found my poor photoshops on certain media and news sites

well heres one more KF-21 and the AMCA

View attachment 659481

The AMCA by the looks of things has the edge in stealth by having an internal weapons bay, whereas the KF-21 has gone without an internal weapons bay for the initial production variants for some strange reason.
The KF-21 has certain current temporal and existential advantages (i.e. it currently physically exists).
As for the rest (and what the contemporary KF-21 is if/ when the AMCA may eventually emerge), we will see.
 

TomcatViP

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for some strange reason.

... called realism. The presence of an iwb won't matters in A2A configuration until the RCS of the production vehicle can be reduced drastically.
This does not come easily without field experience, what stage 1 will provide.

All the countries that have stricter goals in that domain without having real fleet experience will certainly have a lengthy development process with numerous iterations while the a/c is in the early stage of production. Cost will then probably soar and field availability will be delayed.

The Teja is a great example of a program that have outpaced what was achievable on the production line. Numerous iterations have plagued the production process leading to even greater delays.
 
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dan_inbox

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Seriously, is posting here photoshopped fakes useful ?
Is it contributing to the quality and credibility of SPF in any way ?

Actually, is it contributing to anything at all, except a bored ego with nothing useful to do ?

Paul?
 

helmutkohl

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Seriously, is posting here photoshopped fakes useful ?
Is it contributing to the quality and credibility of SPF in any way ?

Actually, is it contributing to anything at all, except a bored ego with nothing useful to do ?

Paul?
did not think my one simple "whatif" photoshop would trigger some one. :rolleyes: you should just ignore it.
 
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helmutkohl

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Archibald

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Seriously, is posting here photoshopped fakes useful ?
Is it contributing to the quality and credibility of SPF in any way ?

Actually, is it contributing to anything at all, except a bored ego with nothing useful to do ?

Paul?
did not think my one simple "whatif" photoshop would trigger some one. :rolleyes: you should just ignore it.
Try the IGNORE button. So useful at times !
 

helmutkohl

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summary:

South Korea's defense industries has been experiencing sophisticated hacks, thats highly suspected to be coming from North Korea.
Giving the timing of certain things, there's concern that North Korea may have stolen the drawings for the KF-21


and another link


does this mean Kim is gonna have his knock off soon? just like their recent tank knock offs?
Screen Shot 2021-07-02 at 10.52.27.png
 
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