Japanese next generation fighter study (aka i3, F-3)

[AC01]

I'm going to ask, does anybody have a general summary of the F-Xs capabilities?

 

[Ares]

I'm going to ask, does anybody have a general summary of the F-Xs capabilities?

What has been confirmed so far,

1. Anti-stealth capability
2. Sensor Fusion and Common Fire Control via high-capacity hidden networks between fighters
3. Longer range than F-22
4. Larger internal weapon capacity than F-35
5. Can be operated with unmanned fighters

 

[NUSNA_Moebius]

IIRC Artificial Intelligence cooperation with the pilot was a hallmark feature as well.

 

[helmutkohl]

I'm going to ask, does anybody have a general summary of the F-Xs capabilities?

What has been confirmed so far,

1. Anti-stealth capability
2. Sensor Fusion and Common Fire Control via high-capacity hidden networks between fighters
3. Longer range than F-22
4. Larger internal weapon capacity than F-35
5. Can be operated with unmanned fighters

i wonder if this will end up being something with a large delta wing.

 

[Bhurki]

I'm going to ask, does anybody have a general summary of the F-Xs capabilities?

What has been confirmed so far,

1. Anti-stealth capability
2. Sensor Fusion and Common Fire Control via high-capacity hidden networks between fighters
3. Longer range than F-22
4. Larger internal weapon capacity than F-35
5. Can be operated with unmanned fighters

i wonder if this will end up being something with a large delta wing.

Wouldn't mind something like this...

 

[Inst]

I'm going to ask, does anybody have a general summary of the F-Xs capabilities?

What has been confirmed so far,

1. Anti-stealth capability
2. Sensor Fusion and Common Fire Control via high-capacity hidden networks between fighters
3. Longer range than F-22
4. Larger internal weapon capacity than F-35
5. Can be operated with unmanned fighters

i wonder if this will end up being something with a large delta wing.

View attachment 648667
Wouldn't mind something like this...

The innovative stuff the Japanese have done is controllable ventral fins, which should provide pitch / yaw control at extreme AOA. This, well, looks like a FB-22 without even LERXes.

 

[AC01]

From what I can get, the F-3 is supposed to carry ASM-3s internally? Because I'm kind of wondering why they opted to choose that, especially considering how big the aircraft would be taking into account that the ASM-3 is about 6 meters long.

 

[TomcatViP]

It's obviously a beast... But given that the F-3 would be considerably bigger than an F-35 that can fit around 4m long weapon, why not ?

View: https://youtu.be/vsdgfD5ZtzY

 

[Ares]

From the Joint statement of Japan-UK foreign and defence ministerial meeting 2021:

The four Ministers endorsed the progress of the work of the Japan-UK High Level Defence Equipment and Technology Cooperation Steering Panel on defence equipment and technology cooperation. They welcomed the ongoing dialogue on Future Combat Air System (FCAS)/F-X at subsystem level in order to understand mutual requirements and the benefits of cooperation for enhanced technology and improved cost effectiveness. The four Ministers emphasised the importance of the research programme for the demonstration of a joint new air to air missile (JNAAM). They welcomed the successful completion of the Personnel Vulnerability Evaluation in 2020 and progress made on the Project for Cooperative Research on the Feasibility of a Japan and Great Britain Universal Advanced RF system (JAGUAR).

Japan-UK foreign and defence ministerial meeting 2021: joint statement

www.gov.uk

https://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/press/release/press3_000417.html

So, this now called Jaguar.

 

[stealthflanker]

Think it's gonna be more than Radar's may also includes ESM and jammers too.

 

[Ares]

Think it's gonna be more than Radar's may also includes ESM and jammers too.

Yes, that's what Japan ATLA made. Common RF Antenna System.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

From the Joint statement of Japan-UK foreign and defence ministerial meeting 2021:

The four Ministers endorsed the progress of the work of the Japan-UK High Level Defence Equipment and Technology Cooperation Steering Panel on defence equipment and technology cooperation. They welcomed the ongoing dialogue on Future Combat Air System (FCAS)/F-X at subsystem level in order to understand mutual requirements and the benefits of cooperation for enhanced technology and improved cost effectiveness. The four Ministers emphasised the importance of the research programme for the demonstration of a joint new air to air missile (JNAAM). They welcomed the successful completion of the Personnel Vulnerability Evaluation in 2020 and progress made on the Project for Cooperative Research on the Feasibility of a Japan and Great Britain Universal Advanced RF system (JAGUAR).

Japan-UK foreign and defence ministerial meeting 2021: joint statement

www.gov.uk

https://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/press/release/press3_000417.html

So, this now called Jaguar.

View attachment 649940

Interpreting what's written :
It's a radar with simultaneous multi-beam and wide-angle radiation capabilities, enabling continous detection across all aspects leading to instantaneous detection of threats regardless of their position.

So, basically it feels like they are trying to mimmick VSRs but with much higher angular resolution, as what it basically does is radiate multiple pencil beams simultaneously across different angles to achieve such capability.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Future Missile Warning Technology.

Basically a Japanese equivalent of DAS system, so your typical EO MAWS with IRST capabilities.



conceptual diagram


RCS measurement of conformal sensors



HMD used for the testing of the system.


Diagram of how a C-2 transportation aircraft will be modified to accommodate the sensors to test the system.


Just like EO-DAS, it consists of 6 EO/IR sensors, which the information gathered by these sensors will be processed via fusion engine resulting in unified picture of individual threat levels and tracking data, and will be projected to the pilot on the HMD. Positional distortion will be corrected corresponding to the position of the pilot's head.


Information and diagrams courtesy of "anonymous" (https://gall.dcinside.com/mgallery/board/view/?id=war&no=1676142).

Original source : Japanese ATLA, a MoD agency.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Video uploaded by ATLA about XF9-1 engine. You could skip the sequence between 1 and 2 minute mark, as it describes some generic turbofan structure.

More detailed footage of testing of the XF9-1 engine.


Describes what Ares wrote in page 5 of this thread. Seems to be that some of those images he uploaded aren't accessible anymore so reuploading.


Stealth testing from front and behind, high altitude testing and control function testing carried out in Sapporo

Currently researching ways to apply adaptive cycle to XF9 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200108101011if_/https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/data/info/ny_kenkyu_koukuu/pdf/kouji/kouji02-004.pdf）

 

[Ejajjs]

xvn3-1

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Few other information regarding F-3 published last year. Maybe it was uploaded on this thread but I haven't seen it.



Development timeline

"Intended to replace F-2 starting from 2035"

From above (green) to below (yellow) :
"preliminary and detailed design"
"EMD prototype production"
"ground testing"
"flight testing (testing to continue after this timeline for the development of additional and improved capabilities)"
"manufacturing of first mass production model"



Current schedule regarding the future fighter development

"System integration contractor (ie main program contractor) to be chosen December this year (2020)" - MHI selected
"Planning to reach an agreement with the US and UK for the international cooperation and to lay basic structures of the development schedule" - LM selected as system integration and airframe design TAC, NG to support the development of data link with Japan-US interoperability, co-development of radar with UK (probably BAE) and ongoing negotiation over possible co-development of the engine (RR)

from left to right and above to below (in a reading order) :
★"deduction of rough estimation of program cost and schedule"
★"announcement of government budget for 3rd year of Reiwa (CE 2021)"

"reviewing the methods of contract and development system"
"selection of system integration developer"
"conceptual and preliminary design" (continuation from DMU probably)

★"selection of international partner"

"agreement with the US and UK (specify the areas of cooperation)"
"detailed adjustment of international cooperation with partner nations (US & UK)"



Ways to enable the higher level of (system) integration in the future fighter jet program

"While developing the legacy aircraft such as F-2 or P-1, MoD has contracted individual system providers (i.e. multi-prime) for each components such as the airframe, engine, avionics, etc. Due to such reason the interconnection and cooperation between these system providers were limited."
"Since the advent of 5th generation fighters, it was crucial to achieve higher levels of integration within the whole avionics architecture and system, thus it was necessary that coordination between the airframe, engine and avionics to achiever higher levels of low observability. Therefore it is important to set up a development structure which is suitable for the realisation of such higher levels of integration."

From left to right, each aircraft followed by another :

F-2
MoD grants contract to each prime contractors, namely MHI (system integration, in sky blue), GE (engine importation, in green), Mitsubishi Electric (radar and EW, in green). The sub component suppliers (in green) then supply the components to MHI without further cooperation.

P-1
MoD grants contract to each prime contractors, namely MHI (system integration, in sky blue), IHI (engine, in green), Fujitsu (IRST, in green), Mitsubishi Electric (self protection system, in green). The sub component suppliers (in green) then supply the components to MHI without further cooperation.

X-2
MoD grants contract to prime contractor, MHI (system integration, in sky blue), who then contracts sub component supplier (selected by the MoD), IHI (engine, in green). IHI provides technical support to MHI for the integration of the engine to the airframe.



(supplementary background information) future fighter related development program until now

"investment until now : ￥ 227.7 billion (around $ 2.16 billion in today's exchange rate)"

The content in the top most row specifies "item", "expenses" and "years of development"

● [system integration] (integration concept) (total expense : ￥8.9 billion) (from here on I will skip the translation of expenses and development timeline because its obvious what it means)
- future fighter conceptualisation
- technical feasibility study
- (basically the same to one above)

● [aircraft] (integration technology) (airframe components) (total expense : ￥93.3 billion)
- ATD-X
- aerodynamic studies regarding IWB and weapons release
- IWB low observability studies
- stealth intake studies
- studies regarding the weight reduction of airframe structure
- electric actuator studies (that alike of PBW electric hydrostatic actuators used in F-35)
- heat exchange system of smaller size for (incomprehensible)
- remotely controlled loyal wingman
- examination of stealth characteristics

● [engine] (integration technology) (engine components) (total expense : ￥51 billion)
- critical components regarding next generation engine (guess it's about technology for next generation engines in general)
- components regarding engines for fighter jet (AB and operation under supersonic, high g-load, high AOA environment?)
- engine system for fighter jet (maybe something like FADEC and integration to flight control like control via AI or such)
- improving the possibility of application (have no idea what this could mean)
- thrust vectoring nozel

● [avionics] (integration technology) (mission system components) (total expense : ￥74.5 billion)
- advanced integrated sensor suite
- studies regarding high resolution IR image
- simulation of advanced RF self defense (simulation of EW?)
- future missile warning technology (one I've posted above)
- next generation data link with higher speed and secuirty
- radome for stealth fighter (FSS probably)
- mission system integration for fighter jet
- next generation IR sensors
- integrated fire control for fighter jet



(supplementary background information) accumulation and advancement of fighter jet related technologies in Japan

"ATLA has cooperated with domestic defense industry to develop, test and demonstrate various technologies through ATD-X program (X-2), as shown below."

clockwise, starting from the top-left quadrant :
"Advanced integrated sensor system (22nd ~ 30th year of Heisei [2010 ~ 2018])"
"testing of a radar that uses state of the art MMIC"
"manufactured by : MHI, Toshiba, Fujitsu"

"Fighter jet engine (22nd year of Heisei ~ 2nd year of Reiwa [2010 ~ 2020])"
"demonstration of high-power and slim engine that incorporates highest levels of heat resistant materials and coating technology"
"manufactured by : IHI"

"Incorporating stealth technology to weapon release system (25th ~ 30th year of Heisei)"
"demonstration of technologies for faster release of missiles in the IWB"
"manufactured by : MHI"

"Technologies to achieve airframe with lighter weight (26th year of Heisei ~ 3rd year of Reiwa)"
"demonstration of technologies that enable the adhesion of composite materials without the use of steel (i.e. bolts and nuts) to realise lighter airframe"
"manufactured by : MHI"

 

[Maro.Kyo]

View attachment 651019

xvn3-1

more fotos of XVN3-1, courtsey of hitonoia (https://twitter.com/@hitonoia)

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Before the 3D thrust vectoring nozzles, Japan also developed a 2D vectoring nozzle called the XVN-10 based on XF3-400. I don't think they've flew it tho.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

T/R ratio (AB thrust) development comparison made by ATLA. Figure for F119 is an estimate. The trendline after XF5 should flatten out since the performance testing of XF9 (sized right at the middle between F414 and F110, thus with estimated weight of around 1,500 kg, it should have T/R of almost 10) started only after 2018. Makes sense as they are getting closer to leading edge technology of the US and catching up to Europe.

 

[stealthflanker]

That kind of putting Russian engines like 117S (8.75) in about the same ballpark as M88's while the Izd-30 is near or at same place as the EJ-200.

 

[helmutkohl]

I'm surprised Kawasaki is making the frame, not Mitsubishi. but thats okay since Kawasaki makes a variety of planes too
but very surprised for the radar since Mitsubishi made the first AESA radar.

Breakdown of eight Japanese companies’ share in the F-X development program – Alert 5

The main contractor will be Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. IHI Corporation will develop the engine, Subaru and Kawasaki Heavy Industries will build the airframe, Mitsubishi Electric will take the electronic warfare system portion while Toshiba, Fujitsu and NEC will design the avionics and radar.

 

[helmutkohl]

pics via Japanese source claiming it was in the National Diet (Parliament) office

 

[helmutkohl]

i wonder how old this model really is. looks like exactly like 26DMU from 2016

 

[AGS-1787]

So this is the chosen config? Everybody is going for the raptor layout.

 

[FighterJock]

So this is the chosen config? Everybody is going for the raptor layout.

It wouldn’t be surprise me, as the Raptor is the current benchmark for future fighters.

 

[helmutkohl]

So this is the chosen config? Everybody is going for the raptor layout.

honestly I want to say no.
the numbers before the letters DMU indicates the Japanese Heisei years

23DMU = model 2011. so 26DMU is model 2014.
7 years has passed since then and some other, newer, renders from Japanese government publications have some very different designs.
My estimate is that the physical model on the desk was made some time ago and may or may not be representative of the final design.

Remember before the Pak-fa was revealed, there were various models of what people thought might be the Pak-fa, standing on some politician or engineers desk. but turns out it wasn't so.

PS. thanks to whoever updated my post with pictures!

 

[Ares]

pics via Japanese source claiming it was in the National Diet (Parliament) office

This model came from the CGI made by MHI for Japan International Aerospace Exhibition 2018.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373122617222123521

View: https://twitter.com/THABOS47747375/status/1373122617222123521

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199274700792139777

View: https://twitter.com/hitonoia/status/1199274700792139777

 

[TomcatViP]

 

[helmutkohl]

View attachment 653183

note that is a picture of the now obsolete 25DMU
it has a different planform from 26DMU which is the model above.

 

[datafuser]

CSBA won a contract for an F-X trade-off study in December 2020.

Kawasaki, NEC Join Eight-Company F-X Development Team | Aviation Week Network

Eight Japanese companies are now working to design the nation’s F-X fighter: Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Subaru, IHI, Mitsubishi Electric, Toshiba, Fujitsu and NEC.

aviationweek.com

 

[helmutkohl]

With Kawasaki in charge of the air frame development, I wonder how much this will change the design of the aircraft.

i don't believe they made any fighters since WW2.. but they certainly have a lot of experience making transports, helicopters, and training aircraft.

 

[Ares]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6RjGVxkFKM

IHI XF9-1 performance test in high altitude simulation chamber(unlisted video)

防衛装備庁技術シンポジウム２０２０

www.mod.go.jp

 

[Ares]

Advanced Integrate Sensor(Radar/IR/ESM/ECM) and stealthy radome

https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/research/ats2020/poster/kenkyu_01.pdf

https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/research/ats2020/poster/kenkyu_02.pdf

https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/research/ats2020/poster/kenkyu_03.pdf

 

[aonestudio]

Japan reveals digital development plan for F-X fighter

The Japanese Ministry of Defense (MoD) has outlined a commitment to apply digital engineering techniques and technologies in the development of the country's...

www.janes.com

 

[helmutkohl]

relevant to the F-2 and F-X

空自Ｆ２に国産長射程ミサイル　防衛省検討

防衛省は、敵の脅威圏外から発射できる射程が長いスタンドオフミサイルの航空機発射型（空発型）の開発を来年度から本格化させる。航空自衛隊が運用しているＦ１５戦闘機の…

www.sankei.com

basically, Japan wanted some air launched stand off missile / Anti shipping missile on the F-2s, F-15 and F-X
however there were problems with the F-15 due to rising costs and some want the F-15 upgrade plan to be abandoned.


However there is concern that once the F-2s are retired, only the F-35s are able to fulfill that role (with the F-35s planning to use the JSM) at least until the F-X comes into service.
So they are interested in redundancy (I wonder if Japan would be interested in the F-15EX to replace some F-15s?)

 

[Ares]

UK and Japan are finalizing adjustments for the joint development of the fighter engine.

According to serveral Japanese government officials, Prime Minister Yoshihide Kan and Boris Johnson exchanged views on joint engine development at the G7 Summit in Britain in June. At the end of the same month, officials from the Ministry of Defense visited Britain to discuss cooperation, including engine parts, with the British counterpart. The two countries are making final adjustments.

次期戦闘機、エンジンはロールスロイス？日英共同開発へ（朝日新聞デジタル） - Yahoo!ニュース

　航空自衛隊のF2戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の開発について、政府はエンジン部分を英国と共同開発する方向で最終調整に入った。日本は重工大手のIHI、英国は航空機エンジン製造大手のロールスロイスの参加

news.yahoo.co.jp

 

[FighterJock]

UK and Japan are finalizing adjustments for the joint development of the fighter engine.

According to serveral Japanese government officials, Prime Minister Yoshihide Kan and Boris Johnson exchanged views on joint engine development at the G7 Summit in Britain in June. At the end of the same month, officials from the Ministry of Defense visited Britain to discuss cooperation, including engine parts, with the British counterpart. The two countries are making final adjustments.

次期戦闘機、エンジンはロールスロイス？日英共同開発へ（朝日新聞デジタル） - Yahoo!ニュース

　航空自衛隊のF2戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の開発について、政府はエンジン部分を英国と共同開発する方向で最終調整に入った。日本は重工大手のIHI、英国は航空機エンジン製造大手のロールスロイスの参加

news.yahoo.co.jp

Good to see that the UK are still involved in the F-3 program, I wonder what sort of engines the Japanese are wanting for the F-3?

 

[Maro.Kyo]

UK and Japan are finalizing adjustments for the joint development of the fighter engine.

According to serveral Japanese government officials, Prime Minister Yoshihide Kan and Boris Johnson exchanged views on joint engine development at the G7 Summit in Britain in June. At the end of the same month, officials from the Ministry of Defense visited Britain to discuss cooperation, including engine parts, with the British counterpart. The two countries are making final adjustments.

次期戦闘機、エンジンはロールスロイス？日英共同開発へ（朝日新聞デジタル） - Yahoo!ニュース

　航空自衛隊のF2戦闘機の後継となる次期戦闘機の開発について、政府はエンジン部分を英国と共同開発する方向で最終調整に入った。日本は重工大手のIHI、英国は航空機エンジン製造大手のロールスロイスの参加

news.yahoo.co.jp

Good to see that the UK are still involved in the F-3 program, I wonder what sort of engines the Japanese are wanting for the F-3?

15 tons thrust with AB and 11 tons dry is the initial goal. A tid bit smaller than f110 size-wise and probably similar/a bit lighter weight as well. There are plans to get the thrust higher than the current goal and to apply adaptive cycle in the future but the exact plan other than those aforementioned thrust figures are uncertain.

 

[stealthflanker]

That's gonna be challenging goal, especially if they want 73 cm diameter to be retained from EJ-200.

 

[Trident]

Do they? There's nothing to that effect in the article. If so, it would stretch the limits of credibility IMHO - approximately 70% improvement in specific thrust over an engine which already does very well in this respect? 20% sure, perhaps even 30%, but 70?