Iron Dome

[Rickshaw]

I was somewhat surprised to see no thread on the Iron Dome system, particularly after its success against the recent Hamas rockets fired against Israel. Does anybody have any information on the system?

 

[Antonio]

May be because there is a lot of info available in the net, and Iron Dome is not an unbuilt missile system so it's not an specific subject here.

But If you like to treat it in the forum, I can move your post to the Aerospace section.

 

[Rickshaw]

Please, that would be good. I am sure there is stuff out there which isn't in the mainstream media about this system.

 

[Madurai]

An Israeli acquaintance of mine insists it's known locally as "Iron Yarmulke."

 

[Grey Havoc]

Israel Plans to Expand ‘Iron Dome’ to Warships to Protect Offshore Facilities (Wall Street Journal, registration may be required.)

Israel to Use New Sea-Borne Missile Defense to Guard Offshore Gas Fields (Reuters, via gCaptain)

ORIGINAL CAPTION: A screen-shot taken from Israel Defence Forces (IDF) handout video footage received on May 18, 2016, shows a test-firing of a version of Israel’s Iron Dome missile interceptor. Handout via REUTERS.​

If I'm not mistaken, the Israeli Navy is going to need at least one new class of ship to mount this system, unless of course they're planning to operate it from mobile barges or similar.

 

[Rickshaw]

Why not put it on the off-shore platforms themselves?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

An Israeli acquaintance of mine insists it's known locally as "Iron Yarmulke."

The word in Hebrew is Kippah which means dome but is also the root of the name for the skull cap or kippa. Which is also known as the Yarmaluke though this word has a different root meaning (fear of god).

 

[dan_inbox]

An article about the test in Haarez with a video (in Hebrew): http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/1.2947797

The idea is to protect the rigs against a volley of Grad missiles fired from Syria or Levanon.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Why not put it on the off-shore platforms themselves?

The general layout of most such platforms means that there isn't that much free open space available to emplace the launchers and their support equipment. Also, with the way the Israeli Navy is currently stretched you couldn't guarantee that there would be a naval ship (as opposed to small patrol craft with limited sensors & comms gear) near enough to an endangered platform in the event of an attack to provide target cueing and midcourse guidance for the missiles (it's unlikely that they would be able to properly emplace the EL/M-2084 radar on your average off-shore platform, though a barge based solution is a possibility I suppose).

 

[CJGibson]

There were discussions within the UK MoD in the late 1970s about installing air defence radars and SAMs on production platforms in the North Sea. Didn't come to anything.

Chris

 

[Rickshaw]

Why not put it on the off-shore platforms themselves?

The general layout of most such platforms means that there isn't that much free open space available to emplace the launchers and their support equipment. Also, with the way the Israeli Navy is currently stretched you couldn't guarantee that there would be a naval ship (as opposed to small patrol craft with limited sensors & comms gear) near enough to an endangered platform in the event of an attack to provide target cueing and midcourse guidance for the missiles (it's unlikely that they would be able to properly emplace the EL/M-2084 radar on your average off-shore platform, though a barge based solution is a possibility I suppose).

Considerations I am sure BUT this is the Israelis we are discussing and they invariably create solutions from outside the box to most problems. Putting a vertical (or near vertical) missile launcher on a resource platform wouldn't be difficult. It would be less subject to vertical and horizontal wave action than a barge and less likely to be attacked effectively by naval craft. Adding the sensors wouldn't IMHO create too much of a problem either. The Israelis could simply design space to do this.

 

[Hobbes]

Why not put it on the off-shore platforms themselves?

Rocket engines in an environment full of volatile hydrocarbons? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[bobbymike]

https://www.defensenews.com/video/2017/11/27/israel-declares-operational-capability-for-sea-based-iron-dome/

 

[fredymac]

UK incorporating Iron Dome engagement control system into Falklands air defense in 78 million pound purchase. "Landceptor" missile and Giraffe radar will form the hardware elements.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-britain-not-purchasing-iron-dome-air-defence-system-israel/

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23916&sid=79ded53c5ce223c2329fc9f8cbcb74ce#p330285

 

[GeorgeA]

Iron Dome intercept from the ski slope. (Sorry for non-Twitter peeps.)

https://twitter.com/treyyingst/status/1087067579640963073?s=21

 

[Grey Havoc]

Army Doubts Iron Dome Can Kill Cruise Missiles - Breaking Defense

Israeli manufacturer Rafael says its anti-rocket system can now shoot down cruise missiles. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and acquisition chief Bruce Jette are saying, show us the data.

breakingdefense.com

 

[jsport]

Army Doubts Iron Dome Can Kill Cruise Missiles - Breaking Defense

Israeli manufacturer Rafael says its anti-rocket system can now shoot down cruise missiles. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and acquisition chief Bruce Jette are saying, show us the data.

breakingdefense.com

Ask Raytheon.....

 

[GARGEAN]

Army Doubts Iron Dome Can Kill Cruise Missiles - Breaking Defense

Israeli manufacturer Rafael says its anti-rocket system can now shoot down cruise missiles. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and acquisition chief Bruce Jette are saying, show us the data.

breakingdefense.com

WAT. Why? CMs are literally one of easiest targets for ADS, slow and unmaneuverable.

 

[TomcatViP]

Really!?!

 

[jsport]

Iron Dome System and SkyHunter Missile

Raytheon teams with Rafael Advanced Defense Systems to defend populated areas and critical assets with the Iron Dome Weapon System. It's the world’s most-used system, intercepting more than 1,500 incoming targets with a success rate exceeding 90 percent

www.raytheon.com

There are really lazy folks on this forum.

 

[DWG]

There are really lazy folks on this forum.

That web page says precisely nothing to invalidate the comments from USAr. There's probably a political element to it, USAr wanting full access to the Iron Dome battle management system, because integrating it into the USAr battle management system is best done with full knowledge of how Iron Dome is designed to work. But USAr is talking about using Iron Dome world-wide, vs first tier opponents bringing their best EW game and missiles to town, and the Israelis have to face neither the environmental range, not the EW challenge, nor high-end cruise missiles. At the very least it will require testing the Israelis won't have had reason to do before now, and it's likely there will be issues arising.

There's absolutely nothing surprising about this, nor necessarily any criticism of Iron Dome beyond the Israelis not being quite as open as USAr would prefer.

 

[jsport]

ID is a Raytheon missile.

 

[DWG]

ID is a Raytheon missile.

For certain values of Raytheon. But the battle management system and radar is Israeli, and the US needs to integrate it into IBCS, or replace it. Which means knowing how it works.

“We already have a missile command center. IBCS [Integrated Battle Command System] is already firing all of our missiles; we need it to be able to fire their missiles,” Jette said. “How do we communicate with the radar? How can our radar work with their missiles? These types of things are all pieces we need to sort out.”

 

[Grey Havoc]

US Army scraps $1b. Iron Dome project, after Israel refuses to provide key codes

American military abandons plans to buy two more Israeli missile defense batteries, integrate system into existing air defenses, due to cyber vulnerabilities and other problems

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[apparition13]

US refuses to provide source code to ally, ally refuses source code to US. What a surprise.

 

[Cordy]

 

[bobbymike]

Rafael CEO: Israeli Firm Plans US Expansion EXCLUSIVE - Breaking Defense

The Rafael CEO confirmed for the first time that Rafael is developing next-generation air-to-air missiles to combat cruise missiles.

breakingdefense.com

 

[AN/AWW-14(V)]

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B6wsujROvXg


The reality of air defence in the early twenty first century.

 

[projectaurora]

An Israeli acquaintance of mine insists it's known locally as "Iron Yarmulke."

its kinda true lol

 

[bobbymike]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B6wsujROvXg


The reality of air defence in the early twenty first century.

A few years from now, add a few hundred drones flying low and fast plus lasers for defense.

A scary picture.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Iron Dome intercepts drone during combat for first time, says Israeli military

In total, Israel has intercepted six drones using multiple countermeasures since hostilities began between Israel and Hamas on May 10, the Israel Defense Forces said.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

Israel's operation against Hamas was the world's first AI war

The IDF used artificial intelligence and supercomputing during the last conflict with Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

www.jpost.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

Democrats to nix $1B for Israel's Iron Dome from bill to avert shutdown

House Democrats will remove a provision originally included in a bill that would have helped boost Israel's Iron Dome air defense system in order to keep the federal government funded through Dec.

thehill.com

 

[Moose]

The line item will reappear in the full defense bill next year, they're just pulling it from the short-term bill.

 

[Grey Havoc]

A bit of good news:

House passes $1 billion for Israel’s Iron Dome system in blowout vote

The House passed legislation overwhelmingly to provide $1 billion to Israel to restock its Iron Dome short-range missile defense system just days after Democrats removed the funding from a broad stopgap spending bill.

www.defensenews.com

 

[muttly]

Does anybody in congress know what each other are doing?

 

[Grey Havoc]

More woe:

Congress drops Army mandate to buy more ‘Iron Dome’ defenses against cruise missiles

The Army is off the hook to buy two more Iron Dome air defense batteries, leaving the service to focus on an enduring Indirect Fires Protection Capability that will be able to combat drones, cruise missiles and rockets, artillery and mortars.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Cordy]

More woe:

Congress drops Army mandate to buy more ‘Iron Dome’ defenses against cruise missiles

The Army is off the hook to buy two more Iron Dome air defense batteries, leaving the service to focus on an enduring Indirect Fires Protection Capability that will be able to combat drones, cruise missiles and rockets, artillery and mortars.

www.defensenews.com

Not surprised as Army never wanted Iron Dome as understood it didn't integrate with the IBCS due to its proprietary nature of its software.

The Army has invested $2.7 billion in the NG IBCS its command-and-control system of Integrated Air and Missile Defense System taking input from THAAD and Patriot radars plus A4 Sentinel etc and controlling the missiles. It picked the Dynetics Enduring Shield a development of the abandoned Army MML, multi-mission launcher, for firing the Sidewinders and perhaps other missiles in future in preference to Iron Dome for its missile CIWS under the IFPC program which will be compatible with IBCS.