Sineva

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
29 April 2010
Messages
195
Reaction score
499
First images of an iranian Shahed-136 kamikaze drone/loitering munition in ukraine,tho interestingly now with the russian name Geranium-2,tho whether this is just a local in service renaming of a foreign procured weapons system,or evidence of actual licensed production in russia is unknown at this time.
Good to finally see some actual evidence of these oft repeated claims.

I wonder what else the russians may have purchased from irans drone arsenal that we have yet to see.
 
My bolding.

WASHINGTON, Sept 27 (Reuters) - The United States is preparing a new $1.1 billion arms package for Ukraine's battle with Russia that will be announced soon, U.S. officials said on Tuesday as Washington awaits the outcome of what it calls "sham" referendums in Ukraine.
The package will include HIMARS launcher systems, accompanying munitions, various types of counter drone systems and radar systems, along with spares, training and technical support, a source briefed on the plan said.
 

Estimates Shahed-136 drone cost of under $20,000. I'd think the sensor/communication package probably can change that the most, as anti-radiation or long range command guided variant with good optics probably would increase that significantly over basic GPS/INS type

Study of Shahed-131 parts. Details the GPS/INS setup.

-------------
With this kind of cost structure, It seems reasonable to have mixed force, with low cost "pure warhead" drones and more expensive communication/sensing drones doing command and control, with long range comms back to base station and short range comms towards dumb warhead drones. This can mean low cost per target services can be combined with good sensors, at cost of some tactical flexibility with limited attack channels. Not sure if this is actually done though.
 
Last edited:
 

Attachments

  • IRN-05-Shahed-131-Technical report 1.pdf
    2.8 MB · Views: 60
At least they are admitting (kinda) to a very very remote possibility the Russians could perhaps maybe (big maybe) be using their drones in Ukraine. Again, perhaps maybe. They will investigate.

"Vlad, are you using our drones over Ukraine?"
"No"
"Okay then"
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
 
A practical question from a noob : why these drones have been talked about SO MUCH and WHY everyone is treating them as GAME CHANGERS ?
 
At the risk of being inflamatory, so what, surely sourcing weapons outwith is a case of market demand, wither its purchases from Iran, China, US. or Switzerland ?
I see no difference in Ukraine using weapons sourced from NATO. states, such as bombardment rockets, etc. etc. I guess they are slightly less indiscriminate too

I find the design and technology of the weapons as well as deployment of definite interest, but can anyone truly comment on their moral use in such a conflict from a non partisan viewpoint
 
A practical question from a noob : why these drones have been talked about SO MUCH and WHY everyone is treating them as GAME CHANGERS ?

That's just how media and social media works. and not just this thing, it's basically every single weapon got deployed in the current event got kind of similar treatment although one is different than the other. Which unfortunately just clouded any discussion regarding their real practical use, designs, limitations etc. Some others got opposite treatment in te same manner.

At the risk of being inflamatory, so what, surely sourcing weapons outwith is a case of market demand, wither its purchases from Iran, China, US. or Switzerland ?

Yes. a sane military seeing gaps in their capability will obviously seek quick alternatives. Russia is no exception and they have been seem to lax in developing weapon in class of Harop. The appearance of Geran basically seem to close this capability gap.
 
No doubt the Iranian drones are cheap compared to others, logical to cut cloth to suit the ability to pay. The Iranians have their own problems so will do what they can to make dosh. All logical.

Momentum will ebb and flow as per with methods to counter these Iranian drones being sorted from numerous sources.
 
"Ukrainian" naval drones but Iranian air drones :D
Hey, when Russia has the technical capability to produce something as complex as a Shahed-136, they'll get credit for it. Until then, keep putting water bottles in Orlans.
No one denies the Iranian origin of Shahed-136, this is understandable to any moron, but for some reason the drones that attacked Sevastopol were Ukrainian, and were not transferred to them by someone else.
So who designed and manufactured these naval drones? Any hint, smart guy?
 
"Ukrainian" naval drones but Iranian air drones :D
Hey, when Russia has the technical capability to produce something as complex as a Shahed-136, they'll get credit for it. Until then, keep putting water bottles in Orlans.
No one denies the Iranian origin of Shahed-136, this is understandable to any moron, but for some reason the drones that attacked Sevastopol were Ukrainian, and were not transferred to them by someone else.
So who designed and manufactured these naval drones? Any hint, smart guy?
The Russian government denies it pretty strongly, though I admit they're not just "any" morons.
 
Any moron, right.
The Iranian government is asking Ukraine for evidence of Russia using Iranian made drones.
 
snark:
Of course, it will turn out that the Iranian government hasn't sold / traded / gifted any drones to Russia, but some near-rabid faction of their 'Revolutionary Guards', generally a law unto themselves and, too-often, 'Two Stops Beyond Barking' did, the better to attack a 'Great Satan' proxy. Given the drones were supposed to be used to attack Tel Aviv, shipping in Gulf etc etc, there'll be lots of shrugs. Especially if the perps are conveniently dead...
/
 
Iranian guard presence was confirmed in occupied Ukraine. Training Russian how to use Iran designed UCAV.
 
Last edited:
It looks like the Iranian Mohajer-6 drones are using Rotax engines stolen from civilian aircraft across Europe. 140 of them are known to have been taken in the last 20 years.

What these engines have that the IRI wants to steal them?
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
Would it help Ukraine to get ready for such if they had light attack aircraft which could intercept and shoot down swarms of those low speed cruise missiles or drones at low cost?

Would it be on topic to consider the design characteristics of such aircraft?
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
Would it help Ukraine to get ready for such if they had light attack aircraft which could intercept and shoot down swarms of those low speed cruise missiles or drones at low cost?

Would it be on topic to consider the design characteristics of such aircraft?
Take the cruise-drone design. Remove warhead, reduce fuel tank volume, increase power of engine. You now go much faster but over a shorter range. Now add advanced sensors/control systems and appropriate "negation" systems (small AAMs, guns, whatever). Add a minimal landing skid and a big sticker that reads "If found, please return to Big Jim's Drone Emporium, no postage needed."

If the negation system can be turned into an EM weapon that shuts off the cruise-drone allowing for it to be recovered more or less intact, all the better. Recover, fix, return to sender. Imagine if these Iranian drones, covered with Iranian labels, start raining down randomly onto "home" territory. Delightful political chaos ensues.
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
Would it help Ukraine to get ready for such if they had light attack aircraft which could intercept and shoot down swarms of those low speed cruise missiles or drones at low cost?

Would it be on topic to consider the design characteristics of such aircraft?
Take the cruise-drone design. Remove warhead, reduce fuel tank volume, increase power of engine. You now go much faster but over a shorter range. Now add advanced sensors/control systems and appropriate "negation" systems (small AAMs, guns, whatever). Add a minimal landing skid and a big sticker that reads "If found, please return to Big Jim's Drone Emporium, no postage needed."

If the negation system can be turned into an EM weapon that shuts off the cruise-drone allowing for it to be recovered more or less intact, all the better. Recover, fix, return to sender. Imagine if these Iranian drones, covered with Iranian labels, start raining down randomly onto "home" territory. Delightful political chaos ensues.
Smart, nefarious and devious . . . me likes
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
Just makes killing the archer that much more desirable.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/yfjc57/2_islamic_revolutionary_guard_corps_il76/
The Israelis, Americans or UK? Or Ukrainians hunting very very far off the reservation. They have certainly become audacious in recent times, so I personally won't put it beyond them
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
Just makes killing the archer that much more desirable.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/yfjc57/2_islamic_revolutionary_guard_corps_il76/
The Israelis, Americans or UK? Or Ukrainians hunting very very far off the reservation. They have certainly become audacious in recent times, so I personally won't put it beyond them
Okay, following the link they the unconfirmed report indicated Israeli missiles being responsible. So, perhaps the action was not directly aimed at interdicting the supply of weapons (specifically UAVs) to Russia.


Considering how carefully the Israelis have been trying to remain neutral, this could be a interesting escallation
 
I'm not sure anyone is ready for a world of sub-$50k long-range cruise missiles. That completely changes offensive/defensive calculus.
Just makes killing the archer that much more desirable.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/yfjc57/2_islamic_revolutionary_guard_corps_il76/
The Israelis, Americans or UK? Or Ukrainians hunting very very far off the reservation. They have certainly become audacious in recent times, so I personally won't put it beyond them

Haven't seen this report confirmed anywhere outside redit yet, but anything bombed in SAA controlled Syria was the IAF. It is possible they wanted to help Ukraine, since they won't sell weapons, but IMO it is more likely that the IRGC just got sloppy and Israel took the opportunity to waste the Il-76s since Iran in general, and the IRGC in particular, has a very limited inventory. I think the Il's were the target and the cargo was gravy.
 
Let's just accept that this just never did happen.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom