Iran military downs US RQ-170 Sentinel spy drone

blackstar said:
Aviation Week has some good photos of the drone in flight, and you can see the sensor turret behind plated glass on the bottom of the vehicle.
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Update:
I found the pictures on another forum, combined them and reduced the size.
flateric, the pictures are from the lastest issue of Aviation Week, January 2nd, page 28+29.
 

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which AWST issue was that one with photos - seems that I need to buy a copy...thanks!
 
There's a very clear and concise article in Foreign Policy (magazine) by Olli Heinonen (senior fellow, Harvard). He's one of the foremost civilian experts on nuke technology and proliferation, having scoured the World for decades as an inspector/ deputy director general for the IAEA (with remarkable success). He portrays the technological paths toward escalation and disarmament for Iran as fairly obvious at this point. The timeframe - especially for weapons grade U, though not necessarily for actual devices (how much info/ materials have they gotten from AQ Khan and the Norks?) - for potential developments is such that likely parties to any potential conflict with Iran must keep pretty much constant tabs on what's happening there and keep contingency plans up to date and specific.

Hence it also becomes more likely that some intelligence assets, like the RQ-170, may be lost due to higher acceptable risk. Compared to the killing off Iranian scientists, drone surveillance is a very benign way of going about this partly clandestine business (I don't know whether there's any plausible connection between, say, the Fordow enrichment facility, possible drone bases, and the alleged crash site). A side note on the assassinations: Israel is well known for engaging in all tactics they deem necessary for their safety. Whether degrading Iranian capabilities and capacity in this manner (in addition to Stuxnet'n'stuff) really is in their interest is another matter. A less obvious candidate for engaging in (or contracting) such operations is perhaps Saudi Arabia, there's no love lost between the elites of those two countries either: Consider the craziness late last year with the fledging assassination plot of Ambassador Adel al-Jubeir in the US by some Iranians at least loosely affiliated with the Quds force. Could this be interpreted as attempted "symmetrical retaliation" (for the killings of scientists that have been going on from 2007)?

Anyway, the article is - "in my humble opinion" - well worth the read and highly pertinent to the objectives of any drone flights over Iran.
 
My friend just posted the second part of the Sentinel's background, pretty cool it has to do with a project called Tacit Blue, first time I had heard of it, but you all surely know of it.
http://aviationintel.com/2012/01/12/rq-170-origins-part-ii-the-grandson-of-tacit-blue/
 
flateric said:
which AWST issue was that one with photos - seems that I need to buy a copy...thanks!
Click to expand...


It is from the Jan 2 , 2012 issue


( I hope it's ok to post it here)


[Admin - no, too high res, too recent]
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/checkpoint-washington/post/us-drone-that-crashed-in-iran-goes-miniature/2012/01/17/gIQAAzAi5P_blog.html

An Iranian firm, seeking to capitalize on the frenzy that followed the crash of the drone — and American calls to have it returned — is now producing miniaturized toy versions of the craft. Most of the toys, which come in several colors and are made of Iranian plastic, have already been snapped up by Iranian government organizations, according to the group that manufactures them.

At least one model — a pink one — has been reserved for President Obama.

“He said he wanted it back, and we will send him one,” said Reza Kioumarsi, the head of cultural production at the Ayeh Art group.

Ayeh Art group designs “cultural products” — mugs with verses of the Koran printed on them, for instance, and small buttons picturing mosques. This month, the firm began producing a 1:80 scaled model of the RQ-170, the sophisticated drone that was being operated by the CIA when it crashed in eastern Iran. The firm is now making 2,000 of them a day.
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"At least one model — a pink one — has been reserved for President Obama."

BURN!!! ::)

wow...who knew state officials of a sovereign nation had the same sense of humor of fifth grade school boys.
 
Wow, are the Iranians seriously attempting to test our patience with this ridiculous stunt? AeroFranz is right, this is the most childish thing a sovereign nation's government has ever done in the past decade or so.
 
I'll take one of those model. Of course I'm gonna scratch out the koran quote on the stand and repaint the model to a respectable gray. But i wouldn't mind getting one.
 
Some photos of the toy drones:


http://ptisidiastima.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/iranian-toys/


(it is in greek but it just say 'Iranian toys')


Personally I think this is nothing more than an expression of humor, let's don't forget that Iran had an enemy spy aircraft crashed inside its borders. Facing this situation with humor (of course I am not saying that both sides don't consider if also a serious subject) is a good thing, especially inside an environment of fanatism.

PS - admin sorry about the image I posted, I hope I didnt' cause any problems
 
AAAdrone said:
Wow, are the Iranians seriously attempting to test our patience with this ridiculous stunt? AeroFranz is right, this is the most childish thing a sovereign nation's government has ever done in the past decade or so.
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What stunt exactly?
EDIT: Nevermind. I think I understand. ;)
 
The stunt of giving Obama a pink scale replica of the RQ-170 to humiliate the US. The US wanted their drone back, so Iran is "giving it back" to us. I just think it is a ridiculous prank that is all.
 
Yep, ridiculous prank. Good job it wasn't anything serious like sending military aircraft into your airspace or planting bombs on scientist's cars...


Which is to say, this is aerospace forum :)
 
AAAdrone said:
The stunt of giving Obama a pink scale replica of the RQ-170 to humiliate the US. The US wanted their drone back, so Iran is "giving it back" to us. I just think it is a ridiculous prank that is all.
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Oh.

I read your post wrongly.

I thought you simply had to be being sarcastic about the US asking for their drone back, seeing that you used the words sovereign nation in your post.

Personally, I think Iran can do want they want with the drone, seeing as they are a sovereign nation, and that the drone was spying on them in their own sovereign territory.

I would rather think it far more childish for the US to ask for the drone back after being caught, and actually expecting a serious response. ;D
 
AAAdrone said:
The stunt of giving Obama a pink scale replica of the RQ-170 to humiliate the US. The US wanted their drone back, so Iran is "giving it back" to us.
Click to expand...

If the Administration had any smarts, they'd accept it. However... they'd send some Barbie dolls in bikines to go pick it up.
 
robotpig said:
Some photos of the toy drones:
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Hmmm. At first I thought that the coloration of the toys indicated just a crappy paint job. But some processing indicates that, instead, Iran is under the thrall of an ancient horror that is devoted to murder and chaos.
 

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Demon Lord Razgriz said:
Well, reading on Key Publishing.com(which I sadly can't post on) that the photo enhanced image which showed the engine through the inlet grill was from a guy who was a questionable source, I did some magic of my own with GIMP and got what I've attached below.

Seems the guy's enhanced image is the real deal. If someone could repost it over there, I'd be happy.
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An enterprising individual could use this, and some other information available now, to greatly narrow down the possible engines.

To give that person a head start, here are the diameters, in inches, of several possible engines:
FJ44-2: 21.8
FJ44-3: 23
FJ44-4: 25.3
AE3007H: 38.5
TF34/CF34: 44 - 52
 
Again, I will stand on my earlier posts and say they're running a Williams International FJ-44-X core. I would recommend starting in this area. The RQ-170 is just not that large. A good aircraft designer will not overspec a dry thrust t/w that runs above 0.5 at takeoff. It's inefficient and will kill endurance.
 
TAGBOARD said:
Again, I will stand on my earlier posts and say they're running a Williams International FJ-44-X core. I would recommend starting in this area. The RQ-170 is just not that large. A good aircraft designer will not overspec a dry thrust that runs above 0.5 at takeoff. It's inefficient and will kill endurance.
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That does appear to be correct, though it's been reported in the press that it uses a TF34 (which is the only reason I included it in that list). The FJ44 fits the aircraft's dimensions, the TF34 does not.
 
http://theaviationist.com/2012/02/11/u-s-stealthy-rq-170-model-on-display-at-tehran-in-feb-11-rallies-with-extracted-landing-gear/

Wheels down. small photo but hopefully a larger one will appear soon.
 
Though you might find this interesting:

hatch.jpg


Source: http://theaviationist.com/tag/rq-170/
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Though you might find this interesting:

hatch.jpg


Source: http://theaviationist.com/tag/rq-170/
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We are not seeing it directly along the center line - the complex contouring of the upper surface viewed at an angle could create the illusions of both the wavering lines and the irregular shape. Could that forward panel have been a modification and the irregular placement of fasteners the product of work done by hand along with the existing placement of items under the skin?
 
Don't forget that the RQ-170 is a hand-built prototype or low-rate production vehicle, typical of the Skunk Works. You should see the A-12, SR-71, F-117A, and others. No two are exactly alike, and there are often strange patches and one-of-a kind tweaks and modifications that don't match the blueprints.
 
Deliberate zig-zag riveting patterns are actually pretty common in aerospace (keeps seating stress more uniform, IIRC).
 
Stargazer2006 said:
The color looks a lot more realistic on this one... Was it repainted?
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Is it just me, or does the under the nose optical window look false or possibly modelled on what wreakage they found?
 
The most interesting part:

"One of those operations was exposed last year, when an RQ-170, flown from an airstrip in Afghanistan, crashed inside Iran. Officials in Tehran have triumphantly claimed credit for bringing the stealth drone down and have released pictures showing the drone apparently patched up after the crash. U.S. officials say a technical failure caused the crash.

The former intelligence official familiar with the beginnings of the stealth drone missions said that there had been pointed debate before deploying the first aircraft over whether it should be equipped with a so-called self-destruction package, which could blow an RQ-170 to bits if it flew off course.

The director of national intelligence at the time, Michael McConnell, was among the high-ranking officials who pushed to have the package installed. But the CIA’s engineering team balked, saying it would add too much weight to the delicately balanced frame.

Despite the setback, U.S. officials said that some surveillance flights continue and that the damage to American espionage capacity overall has been limited.

That is partly because the drone flights were only a small part of a broad espionage campaign involving the NSA, which intercepts ­e-mail and electronic communications, as well as the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, which scours satellite imagery and was the first to spot the uranium enrichment plant at Qom."
 
Ian33 said:
Stargazer2006 said:
The color looks a lot more realistic on this one... Was it repainted?
Click to expand...
Is it just me, or does the under the nose optical window look false or possibly modelled on what wreakage they found?
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That's correct, the model in the parade was just that - a model built based on the captured vehicle.
"
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010174388
 
blackstar said:
The former intelligence official familiar with the beginnings of the stealth drone missions said that there had been pointed debate before deploying the first aircraft over whether it should be equipped with a so-called self-destruction package, which could blow an RQ-170 to bits if it flew off course.

The director of national intelligence at the time, Michael McConnell, was among the high-ranking officials who pushed to have the package installed. But the CIA’s engineering team balked, saying it would add too much weight to the delicately balanced frame.
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Management's view of "self destruct":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqe-mr_zBdg

Engineering's view of "self destruct":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byS2UcA1QKk
 
Iran says it's recovered data from captured U.S. spy drone
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/22/world/meast/iran-us-plane/index.html
 
The meat of their claim:

"Information shows the drone was in California in October 2010 for repairs and was moved to Afghanistan the following month, where it had problems that U.S. experts could not solve, he said."

Now maybe they were able to access some level of the drone's software and that indicated where it was worked on. Or maybe they're just making it all up.
 
blackstar said:
The meat of their claim:

"Information shows the drone was in California in October 2010 for repairs and was moved to Afghanistan the following month, where it had problems that U.S. experts could not solve, he said."

Now maybe they were able to access some level of the drone's software and that indicated where it was worked on. Or maybe they're just making it all up.
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I'm a bit surprised it has a hard drive in it (if they aren't making that up). I figured it would have a load of volatile RAM in it and send all the acquisitions up a satcom pipe from the RAM once it got somewhere safe for RF emissions.
 
Or could it be that some mechanic in Palmdale left a service tag with a date on the aircraft or something like it? ;)
 
Personally, I think we purpose-built that 'drone' with the intention of having it 'crash' in Iran. Something so secret that there are not even public photos of doesn't just make a soft crash landing inside a nation we're close to having a shooting match with.
 
tacitblue said:
Personally, I think we purpose-built that 'drone' with the intention of having it 'crash' in Iran. Something so secret that there are not even public photos of doesn't just make a soft crash landing inside a nation we're close to having a shooting match with.
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Human beings are not a perfect species.

We make stuff that sometimes fails. Like aircraft, ships etc.

There is no such thing as an infallible machine.

It malfunctioned in some way, either with or without Iranian interference.
 

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