Huge collection of aviation brochures and reports

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Considering the relative lack of response to all the links I provided to the individual items of this seller over the past couple of days, I thought "Why bother?" but thanks anyway!
 
Well, there was an awful lot of them. I'm sure some people are interested in some of them.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
Considering the relative lack of response to all the links I provided to the individual items of this seller over the past couple of days, I thought "Why bother?" but thanks anyway!
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I looked at them and appreciate your efforts, Stargazer2006. I am not sure what you were expecting.
 
DonaldM said:
I looked at them and appreciate your efforts, Stargazer2006. I am not sure what you were expecting.
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Some people on this forum merely copy-paste a link. Or several dozens of them, and think it's cool like that.

Others take the time to save the pics, restore/enhance them, re-transcribe some of the texts for future preservation of the data once the auctions are over. I don't have to do that but it's a passion to share and to preserve information for future reference, so as to add some real value to this forum as opposed to the many sites that merely repeat what others have said.

I believe that these efforts are not fully appreciated (maybe simply not understood). After saving nearly 2000 pics in three days, reworking several dozen of them and starting about 15 topics on what I believe to be never-before-seen material on this forum, I would expect something, yes. Not gratitude, but at least an indication that the work is noticed and that some folks are thrilled over it!

People here can write pages on end about the tiniest antenna on a blurred J-20 or Su-50 photo, they can discuss endlessly and often pointlessly on the merits or the failure of the F-35, but when it comes to what this forum really is about (little known projects) there is often little or no reaction, except from the same two or three guys who know and appreciate the stuff (they know who they are!).

It didn't use to be like that a few years ago, though... When you go over the first few years of the forum, you can feel some genuine enthusiasm at discovering new stuff. Either the forum members are too spoiled and have become sort of blasé, or the real lovers of rare aircraft have gone elsewhere.

I don't know... I should probably just post links from now on, like others do. At least they get the occasional "Thank you"...
 
Stargazer, I for one am very grateful for the amount of work you did to bring this to our attention. I guess I have been taking a few spare minutes here and there to work through the entire collection. It's taking a while given how much is in this collection. Let be be clear that I am very appreciative of the original material posted by you and the others who have the time and access to do the research. I don't and thus am more of a "link poster".

Specifically in regards to this collection, I have to say the Constellation II is a very interesting find. There are one or two other items that have really caught my eye. I'm not sure they're worth the price, however, which has dampened my enthusiasm a bit.
 
Sorry, I did not realize that you were spending time manipulating the images. I also apologize for my posts for the Boeing photos that were being sold from the Seattle Times archive. I was afraid that they would disappear before I had a chance to attach the images to the forum and so I was a little sloppy with them.
 
DonaldM said:
Also remember that the "Found on eBay" forum is only visible to Senior Members.
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Thanks for the reminder. I had completely overlooked that point.
 
I thought too that this board was created so that select members would have reduced competition when bidding on these items on eBay.
 
DonaldM said:
I thought too that this board was created so that select members would have reduced competition when bidding on these items on eBay.
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Exactly so.
 
What is the reasonable period of time that should pass before these topics may be moved to boards that are viewable by all forum members? It seems that some of the items on this board have already been sold.
 
I appreciate the heads-up Stargazer2006 and PaulMM.

I looked at everything and I did purchase one thing, it was expensive (like everything),
but after some consideration I felt it would probably be interesting and I could learn something
from it (Kelly Johnson's 1953 Paper on Supersonic (Mach 1 - Mach 2) Airplane Design).

The thing that is scary is that these things are expensive, there are no returns allowed, and
you usually see only a small subset of pages.
 
shockonlip said:
The thing that is scary is that these things are expensive, there are no returns allowed, and
you usually see only a small subset of pages.
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If you look through the whole 11 pages of stuff (plus the already sold items) you'll find that the guy basically got hold of a whole collection from a former Lockheed employee and doesn't know much about the stuff he's selling. Typically he set nearly only four prices for his items: $100, $125, $150 and $200 and his evaluation of what is rare and what isn't is completely illogical and subjective. Some items are really worth their value, some aren't.

As for the number of pics, 8 to 12 pics from a 40-plus page publication may not seem much, but it's still better than what most eBay sellers do, and at least he tried to pick the most relevant ones (those with photos or illustrations), which is not too bad, really.

The "no returns allowed" thing for items of that price is shocking, though, I agree.
 
Thanks for posting the links and pictures.
It is indeed a large collection to go through..

I thought this section was made to avoid people whining about the fact that the ebay-auction may have ended before they had a chance to bid on something they were interested in. And senior members are less likely to whine :D

Those prices are a bit out of my ball-park I am afraid...

Cheers,

Rob
 
Two criteria. Once the item is sold, it can be moved to a another topic - assuming it is interesting and relevant. Pictures of a rare model might be worth keeping. Pictures of a common model, maybe not.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
The "no returns allowed" thing for items of that price is shocking,
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Why? He'd be stupid to allow returns. Someone buys it, scans it, posts the PDF to the internet, then decides, "I don't want it." No thanks.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
I don't know... I should probably just post links from now on, like others do. At least they get the occasional "Thank you"...
Click to expand...

If you are looking for anything out of life beyond a kick in the teeth followed by a tax audit, you are honestly expecting far, far too much. Life is little more than a ceaseless grind of disappointments and failures; and the sooner you come to accept that, the sooner you're less likely to eat a bullet over any particular emotional catastrophe.
 
That *IS* positive.

A neutral or negative outlook would start with active antagonism on the part of your fellow man, and move on from there.

Believing that the world is full of faceless bureaucrats, soulless corporations and government bureaus and billions of people who just don't care is, in my experience, wild optimism.
 
Orionblamblam said:
That *IS* positive.

A neutral or negative outlook would start with active antagonism on the part of your fellow man, and move on from there.

Believing that the world is full of faceless bureaucrats, soulless corporations and government bureaus and billions of people who just don't care is, in my experience, wild optimism.
Click to expand...

Yep. They exist to see how much they can extract out of the herd without causing a rebellion.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
DonaldM said:
I looked at them and appreciate your efforts, Stargazer2006. I am not sure what you were expecting.
Click to expand...

Some people on this forum merely copy-paste a link. Or several dozens of them, and think it's cool like that.

Others take the time to save the pics, restore/enhance them, re-transcribe some of the texts for future preservation of the data once the auctions are over. I don't have to do that but it's a passion to share and to preserve information for future reference, so as to add some real value to this forum as opposed to the many sites that merely repeat what others have said.

I believe that these efforts are not fully appreciated (maybe simply not understood). After saving nearly 2000 pics in three days, reworking several dozen of them and starting about 15 topics on what I believe to be never-before-seen material on this forum, I would expect something, yes. Not gratitude, but at least an indication that the work is noticed and that some folks are thrilled over it!

People here can write pages on end about the tiniest antenna on a blurred J-20 or Su-50 photo, they can discuss endlessly and often pointlessly on the merits or the failure of the F-35, but when it comes to what this forum really is about (little known projects) there is often little or no reaction, except from the same two or three guys who know and appreciate the stuff (they know who they are!).

It didn't use to be like that a few years ago, though... When you go over the first few years of the forum, you can feel some genuine enthusiasm at discovering new stuff. Either the forum members are too spoiled and have become sort of blasé, or the real lovers of rare aircraft have gone elsewhere.


I don't know... I should probably just post links from now on, like others do. At least they get the occasional "Thank you"...
Click to expand...


If there's one thing I learned over the years its not to expect thanks in proportion to effort. Often the image you worked on for ages restoring and are very proud of goes by without notice, while a chance link you post gets universal acclamation. Also, one person's "interesting" is another person's "meh". Personally, late 40s / early 50s stuff just doesn't interest me much.


Its also worth bearing in mind that many people use the "recent posts" to track whats happening, and so when we have a busy topic (cough F-35 cough) other topics simply fall off the front page to quickly and get missed.
 
Keep in mind that contributions to Secret Projects occur during an individual's discretionary or "free" time. What's important is that we find that the information is out there on the Internet. The original poster might not have enough time to analyze, or digest, the relevant information and intends to come back to it when he or she has more time.

Also, Secret Projects is both a discussion board and a projects reference.
 
PaulMM said:
If there's one thing I learned over the years its not to expect thanks in proportion to effort.
Click to expand...

There are two good reasons for doign this sort of thing:
1) To get paid (trust me... *NOT* a good business model)
2) Because you wanna.

If you are doing this (or, let's face it, anything else) for the purposes of acclaim... well, "shallow" comes to mind.
 
Orionblamblam said:
If you are doing this (or, let's face it, anything else) for the purposes of acclaim... well, "shallow" comes to mind.
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I think I made it clear that I don't. However, I can see a huge difference between acclaim and appreciation. Or between acclaim and gratitude... Don't you?
 
Stargazer2006 said:
I can see a huge difference between acclaim and appreciation. Or between acclaim and gratitude... Don't you?
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On a practical level? Not much. "Gratitude" is a vague handwavy touchie-feelie concept that is of no greater value than what you can trade it in for.

Let's say you spend fifty man hours preparing an image or a document, you post it, and someone responds with "Thanks!" You've traded fifty hours of work for their five seconds. How is that equitable? It ain't. It ain't even close. So, why do it? You do it because you want to, the single best reason for doing *anything.*

Basing your happiness on others is a doomed prospect, since your closest friend will stab you in the back if it came right down to it.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Stargazer2006 said:
I can see a huge difference between acclaim and appreciation. Or between acclaim and gratitude... Don't you?
Click to expand...

On a practical level? Not much. "Gratitude" is a vague handwavy touchie-feelie concept that is of no greater value than what you can trade it in for.

Let's say you spend fifty man hours preparing an image or a document, you post it, and someone responds with "Thanks!" You've traded fifty hours of work for their five seconds. How is that equitable? It ain't. It ain't even close. So, why do it? You do it because you want to, the single best reason for doing *anything.*

Basing your happiness on others is a doomed prospect, since your closest friend will stab you in the back if it came right down to it.
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Thank you for this. With much gratitude!
 
I turn on the computer, launch the browser, click on the forum page, and see I have a PM. It's someone saying they've appreciated the work. I call that "gratitude" and it may not mean much to Scott, but to me it says "I've had a great time thanks to what you've done." And the knowledge that I make others happy is what keeps me going, it's not about kudos or rewards. But then I guess Scott will come with another one of his nihilistic/pessimistic one-liners to say that "happy" is non-existent as a notion and is purely subjective. The heck with that!
 
Well at least no has called your image posting behavior as an indication of excessive compulsive disorder. It hurt my feelings until I realized that the only opinion that really matters is Paul's opinion as Administrator.
 
There are options for "liking" a post or adding "kudos" to a poster, but I've never liked that idea.
 
DonaldM said:
Well at least no has called your image posting behavior as an indication of excessive compulsive disorder. It hurt my feelings until I realized that the only opinion that really matters is Paul's opinion as Administrator.
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Any image posted to a topic ought to bring something of interest to a topic. For example, there's no point posting a photo of an inaccurate third party mahogany model of a project, it adds nothing. A better quality version of a picture posted before is useful. A picture from a new angle is useful. Follow these principles and you shouldn't go far wrong.
 
PaulMM said:
There are options for "liking" a post or adding "kudos" to a poster, but I've never liked that idea.
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Do we really want to have Thank You messages being saved permanently on the forums? Since this forum is part reference and part discussion board, I don't know if we should permanently save housekeeping messages. Kudos might be a quick way to thank the original poster.
 
I think it would give people another thing to feel paranoid /depressed about - why don't I have any kudos? Why does that idiot have kudos? Why does nobody like my posts?


Can vote on it though if people think its a good idea.
 
I guess people might think it is a contest. Does the "No Thanks!" subtract Kudos? I don't know what the answer is. I have never contributed to this forum expecting a thank you.
 
DonaldM said:
I have never contributed to this forum expecting a thank you.
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Neither have I. But the reward system is part of established social behavior. The problem is when there is a sense of expectation or even entitlement in return for actions that are strictly voluntary.

I think the best way is to never expect anything -- then you are guaranteed never to be disappointed. If a pat on the back comes your way, then it's a nice surprise. As for "likes" and "dislikes", there is a website based on that. It consumes 8.3 billion man-hours every month (more factoids here). I think SPF is above that. If not, please like me, please, please like me! I'll even like you back!

Good grief!
 
I don't think this whole "Thanks!/No thanks!" thing makes much sense, so sorry if I encouraged this.

I certainly don't want people to be sort of "rated" by other members in such a way that a mark appears under their signature. This is not only childish, it is also unfair to those members who don't contribute much but have their place here as anyone else.

A good way to do things would be something like what Amazon does for instance: you can rate a review and say whether you found it useful or not. If a post (or a topic) could be similarly rated, then it would not only give the poster an indication that their contribution has been appreciated/found useful, but it would also serve as an indication for other forum members that this is likely a valuable thing to read.

This being said, I have no idea whether it is possible to implement such a thing in a forum like this, I guess not.

At any rate, please get over and done with the "Thanks/No thanks!" thing!
 
circle-5 said:
The problem is when there is a sense of expectation or even entitlement in return for actions that are strictly voluntary.
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Indeed. Like if you have you own fireworks display and get cheesed off that the neighbors sit in their back yard and watch it without paying you for it. Or like when the government broadcasts TV programs and gets pissy when you don't buy a "TV license." Or when a street mime does his thing on a busy sidewalk and gets upset when he gets a beatdown rather than a hatful of cash.


I think the best way is to never expect anything -- then you are guaranteed never to be disappointed.
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Or have a signed contract.
 
PaulMM said:
I think it would give people another thing to feel paranoid /depressed about - why don't I have any kudos? Why does that idiot have kudos? Why does nobody like my posts?


Can vote on it though if people think its a good idea.
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Two thumbs down. I think it works fine as is.
 
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