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Historian takes critical look at Die Glocke

Archibald

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That vision of Hitler and his clique dancing to that old hit "we gonna rock / around / the glocke tonight / rock around the glocke tonight..." (ok, I take my coat....)
 

Jemiba

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Sarcastic is the correct wording, I think, though that video comes very diplomatically.
The believers, nevertheless, probably will feel vindicated, because it is confirmed by a
well known historian now, that there's no prove, that there wasn't anything like "Die Glocke".
All those "revolutionary" developments mentioned (jets, rockets, missiles, flying wings) were
already known before the war, and even in other countries, but not a technology, that could
overcome gravity. So, Germany would have had to make a tremendous scientific quantum leap
(that haven't been repeated until today !) in times, when the economy and scientific institutions
already may have been completely overstretched. But some people, and especially scientists,
need pressure to function really good ! (sarcasm modus off again) .
So, no reason for true believers to lose faith in that thing !
 

Flyaway

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I take the video as also throwing shade at the current state of The History channel. Do people remember when that channel was actually about history, not ancient aliens, looking for buried treasure and Hitler plus his magical weapons.
 

Tony Williams

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I must admit I hadn't heard of this until recently, when I was sent a book to review - For the Good of All, by Ian J Ross. It is an alternative history/time travel novel - pure fiction which doesn't pretend to be anything else - in which Die Glocke features, and I found it thought-provoking and very well-written. My review of the book is on my blog here: https://sciencefictionfantasy.blogspot.com/2021/03/for-good-of-all-by-ian-j-ross.html
 

dannydale

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I take the video as also throwing shade at the current state of The History channel. Do people remember when that channel was actually about history, not ancient aliens, looking for buried treasure and Hitler plus his magical weapons.
What was done to the History channel is a microcosm of what American cable tv became.

The first commercial aired on tv already paid for set the stage for every other lie to follow, and they quickly ran thick, fast, and very deep. Now literally everything on tv is a complete lie.
 

Hood

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Meh, I've seen this guy's video on the mythical RAF Enstone Lancasters and was very unimpressed.

For those unware of this tale, supposedly, one day in 1943 six Lancasters in a glossy paint finish without any code markings and modified bomb bay doors (others say they were removed entirely) from a hush-hush unit turned up at RAF Enstone then in use as a satellite airfield by No 21 Operational Training Unit. They stayed for around 18 months and never interacted with the OTU. The OTU then used Wellingtons and a few Oxfords.
The only evidence comes from a 10-year old boy (Gordon Markham) living near the airfield at the time and one photograph perhaps taken by him.

Mark Felton believes this secret unit was training to drop A-bombs - in 1943....
The evidence for this claim? One highly classified secret document which he claims mentions RAF Enstone in connection with something to do with the Manhattan programme.
No unit history or evidence of the unit exists.

There is no evidence the aircraft had gloss paint, any brand-new factory fresh Lancaster on a rainy day would look glossy to a ten-year old boy. The photo shows a normal Lancaster paintjob and with normal open bomb-bay doors. Of course being a super hush-hush unit I'm sure the crews would pose for a local farmer or his son to take their photograph... (the photo can be seen here: https://web.archive.org/web/2008072...ippingnorton.net/Features/aviationhistory.htm)
Even if they were gloss black, why? It would add very little to the speed and we all know that gloss black is the opposite of anti-flash white...
Had anyone even thought about the paint to use with nuclear weapons in 1943? I think even the US didn't use anti-flash white until circa 1954-55?

Allegedly they were kept in a locked hangars at one end of the site - as others have pointed out, Enstone was a satellite field and only had a single B1 and a T2 hangar, both of which were on the technical site and certainly not on the 'far side' of the airfield as some accounts claim.

I know Bomber Command was foresighted about some things but training to drop A-Bombs in 1943 before even Los Alamos had designed them...
Why bomb-aimers would need to practice dropping a free-fall weapon with completely unknown aerodynamics and ballistics is another very pertinent question.
This begs the question of why the bomb bay doors were modified - no Fat Man or Little Boy existed so what would the dummy bomb be? How would they know what shape to make it? Why didn't anyone at Enstone see any bombs? was there even a bomb store at Enstone?

Let's not forget this is 1943 - the same year of the Dambusters Raid, where this particular bombing problem had taken some time to solve and in which the bomb-aimers had little time to prepare for their new low-level techniques or even knowing the target despite the target being specifically known to the command chain. The idea that the RAF would waste resources on training crews for an operation in 2 years time is laughable, Bomber Harris would have tossed you out of his Scampton office window for suggesting such a waste of his resources - he wanted to smash Germany flat and end the war by 1944.

Even finding enough special Lancasters for 617 Squadron was difficult and Harris wanted ever Lanc he could get to pound Germany. Would he really authorise bombers to spend 18 months stooging about without a weapon or even a dummy weapon to drop? (I could add his hatred of 'Panacea merchants', he might just have believed Barnes Wallis could make a mine skip, but a bomb splitting atoms...).

Presumably had the Lancs been modified, Avro would have done the work, of course a lot of Avros records were lost post-war so its possible the records went up in smoke in the fire.
I am no paint expert, presumably the RAF had a stock of gloss black paint?

They may be no smoke without fire, it may well be that they were connected to some kind of radar/radio countermeasures unit (to me this would be far more historically significant in terms of the overall bomber campaign at that time), but there is no link to the Atomic Weapons programme and really any kind of sensible analysis has to ask the kind of pertinent questions I have. The fact that as an historian that he can base an entire story on one photo of a Lanc, the memory of a farmer and perhaps one document in Kew somewhere mentioning Enstone is rather astonishing. I can only presume that the desire to find a good story for his YouTube audience took predence.
And that's the rub, one million viewers with thousands of comments like "wow this is real history, this is the greatest discovery ever, you should be on TV", show how everyone will accept anything that is on a YouTube video - so if he can make a myth like the Enstone Lancs come true how can he make a myth like the Die Glocke die?
 

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