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Orionblamblam

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Finally, an international effort that truly works.

Russia: basic gun.
Germany: sights
Israel: folding forward grip
USA: Folding stock, 10-round magazine, tactical light, door-breacher, pistol grip, required basic gun modifications.

The right to keep and bear arms is just *grand.* ;D



 

yasotay

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:eek:

Sorta redefines the term "Assault Shotgun".
 

yasotay

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I misplaced my quotes... Ah Breneki slugs an' a clip of #1, nice for urban efforts.
 

flateric

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That's how eAPR subscription money were spent, yes?)))
We have here continuing debates - if it worth to allow firearms. I suppose that country population will decrease very fast in case of 'yes' - cases with shooting to death road workers 'guilty for tire sticking' or just people who start from the crossroad too slowly are not rare even now here - Makarov's PM are not too expensive in terms of money (opposite to perspectives to go to jail for having it).
 

Michel Van

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Orionblamblam said:
Russia: basic gun.
Germany: sights
Israel: folding forward grip
USA: Folding stock, 10-round magazine, tactical light, door-breacher, pistol grip, required basic gun modifications.

What No Belgium FN Herstal ? :'(

Orionblamblam said:
History has shown that a disarmed population can decrease pretty rapidly. Russian history, for instance. Criminals, and criminal governments, seem to have no problem in both obtaining and using firearms, even when made illegal.

Curious thing... when I lived in California, the gun laws were very restrictive... and violent crime was a constant concern for me. Now that I live in Utah, where the gun laws are *far* more in line with what the American founding fathers intended, I can own virtually any firearm I want, and may carry said firearms concealed (as I often do). But here in Utah... I don't feel any particular *need* to do so. Armed citizens are less appealing targets for criminals.

Belgium is perfect example !
they have the Restrictive gun law in the World !
No Full Automatic Guns, Rifle, MG (sub Heavy) Shutgun, Teaser, Peperspray except for Police
only Revolver, some Automatic Revolver and Gun for Hunting and that
with only Police interrogation and Psychological Exam every five Years...
even for Air gun !
Gunclubs have very restrictive order to keep they Weapons Lock up

and ?

The Kid arm there self with knife, screwdriver, hammers.
Baseball became "very popular" because the you can used the bat it as Weapon.
Golf also, Paintball because the Guns use under safety range they make serious injury

in Belgium 15 years old kid murder other kid for MP3 Player with knife
or do Gangwars ( I moving to new house because i life between two Gangs... :mad: )
we had first Drive by shooting here (with Air Guns, but they make serious injury at Victim)

and Wat is the absurd on that ?
BEGLIUM IS A BIG WEAPON MANUFACTOR IN WORLD (FN HERSTAL)

i need a Gun...
or gona move to USA (i think Utah is nice place ;D )
 

MIRAGE 4000

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"History has shown that a disarmed population can decrease pretty rapidly .... " :mad:
what a strange Far-West laws !
 

Archibald

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Orionblamblam said:
flateric said:
We have here continuing debates - if it worth to allow firearms. I suppose that country population will decrease very fast in case of 'yes'

History has shown that a disarmed population can decrease pretty rapidly. Russian history, for instance. Criminals, and criminal governments, seem to have no problem in both obtaining and using firearms, even when made illegal.

Curious thing... when I lived in California, the gun laws were very restrictive... and violent crime was a constant concern for me. Now that I live in Utah, where the gun laws are *far* more in line with what the American founding fathers intended, I can own virtually any firearm I want, and may carry said firearms concealed (as I often do). But here in Utah... I don't feel any particular *need* to do so. Armed citizens are less appealing targets for criminals.

Here we are... the kind of subject were French and US citizen will never agree (among others). ;D
 

Archibald

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Don't worry, we are still far from a civil war, so no need to be armed... riots in suburbs stopped two years ago, after a month. ;D
 

yasotay

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Archibald said:
Don't worry, we are still far from a civil war, so no need to be armed... riots in suburbs stopped two years ago, after a month. ;D

Well I am not worried at all about a civil war for France, so much as a "ethnic" war. I recall reading a while ago that the Police Chief of Paris asked for significantly more capability (i.e. armored cars and more protection) in order to allow his police to go into some of neighborhoods that tended to have less than ideal values for the country. Not that there are not neighborhoods in most American mega-cities that the local police tend not to go into unless it is necessary.

I have to agree with Orionblamblam, that there are a significant number of historic occurrences of populations being disarmed, as part of the road to dictatorial leadership. As for America, whether you agree with it or not, guns are part of the culture. Registering them, sequestering them and finally taking them away (it always ends up that way, always) leaves only criminals will have them and the police who usually arrive after the fact. The law abiding citizen who follows the rules ends up nothing more than a victim. The American psyche, is not tempered to be a victim, and under the layer of consumerism there still lies a very live current of individualism and independence that says; "The government works for me, not the other way around."

Likewise I to agree with Michel Van, you take away the guns and people will use sports equipment and household utensils on each other. Will we get to the point we have to have serial numbers on butter knives?
 

smurf

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In the areas that still value individualism, the crime rate tends to be low; those areas that value collectivism,t he crime rate tends to be high.
Are you sure you have it the right way round? Individualists might individually see the value of keeping the law.
 

Simon666

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Orionblamblam said:
That little historical fact is hardly restricted to the "far west." China, for example, experienced it several times just in the 20th century... firsdt, mass murders under the Japanese, and then even worse under Mao. The Nazis and the Soviets also demonstrated it fairly conclusively.
Iraq under Saddam Hussein demonstrates an armed citizenry is no guarantee against an oppressive dictatorship but is useful for attacking invading forces.
 

amsci99

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Orionblamblam said:
Finally, an international effort that truly works.

Russia: basic gun.
Germany: sights
Israel: folding forward grip
USA: Folding stock, 10-round magazine, tactical light, door-breacher, pistol grip, required basic gun modifications.

The right to keep and bear arms is just *grand.* ;D

Orionblamblam

A bit off topic but is that a semi-automatic shotgun for the Saiga series?
 

flateric

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Tromix-mod of Saiga 12K with additional stuff?
 

Firefly 2

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Michel Van said:
Orionblamblam said:
Russia: basic gun.
Germany: sights
Israel: folding forward grip
USA: Folding stock, 10-round magazine, tactical light, door-breacher, pistol grip, required basic gun modifications.

What No Belgium FN Herstal ? :'(

Orionblamblam said:
History has shown that a disarmed population can decrease pretty rapidly. Russian history, for instance. Criminals, and criminal governments, seem to have no problem in both obtaining and using firearms, even when made illegal.

Curious thing... when I lived in California, the gun laws were very restrictive... and violent crime was a constant concern for me. Now that I live in Utah, where the gun laws are *far* more in line with what the American founding fathers intended, I can own virtually any firearm I want, and may carry said firearms concealed (as I often do). But here in Utah... I don't feel any particular *need* to do so. Armed citizens are less appealing targets for criminals.

Belgium is perfect example !
they have the Restrictive gun law in the World !
No Full Automatic Guns, Rifle, MG (sub Heavy) Shutgun, Teaser, Peperspray except for Police
only Revolver, some Automatic Revolver and Gun for Hunting and that
with only Police interrogation and Psychological Exam every five Years...
even for Air gun !
Gunclubs have very restrictive order to keep they Weapons Lock up

and ?

The Kid arm there self with knife, screwdriver, hammers.
Baseball became "very popular" because the you can used the bat it as Weapon.
Golf also, Paintball because the Guns use under safety range they make serious injury

in Belgium 15 years old kid murder other kid for MP3 Player with knife
or do Gangwars ( I moving to new house because i life between two Gangs... :mad: )
we had first Drive by shooting here (with Air Guns, but they make serious injury at Victim)

and Wat is the absurd on that ?
BEGLIUM IS A BIG WEAPON MANUFACTOR IN WORLD (FN HERSTAL)

i need a Gun...
or gona move to USA (i think Utah is nice place ;D )

Everything can be used as a weapon, my compatriot, absolutely everything. And while Belgium has had a few political gut reactions to some appalling atrocities ( numerous family killings by fathers, kids killing kids... you name it and it happened) using fire arms the fact remains that restrictive weapon laws does not a safe country make. On the other hand, neither do liberal weapon laws. The use and ownage of arms by civilians increases the margin for erronus useage, the lack of it ( combined by an undermanned police force and sensational based media)just increases the notion that people should arm themselves for protection.
I am interrested in weapons from a technological point of view, and I don't feel the urge to arm myself although I live and work in Brussels and come into contact with violent types on an everyday basis. I for one, am not scarred. And why do people want to arm themselves? In the USA it would be a cultural thing that is included in the second amendment of the constitution ( although I still view that one as a remnant of the past, the possibility to recruit each civilian in a militia against the Brits), while in other countries it would be fear. Fear, or the wanton need to arm oneself, just because you can.
The fact is, simply, that weapons are dangerous, and not toys.
That said, I hereby will ad some of my personal gun porn :) Mostly Belgian ;D

FN P90
FN2000
FN SCAR
Barret 95
PAPOP
 

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mz

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Firefly said:
make. On the other hand, neither do liberal weapon laws. The use and ownage of arms by civilians increases the margin for erronus useage, the lack of it ( combined by an undermanned police force and sensational based media)just increases the notion that people should arm themselves for protection.

I think real research shows no correlation between killings/murders and gun laws. So the pro-guns and no-guns advocates are often overzealous.

I have no firm opinion on this anyway. There was just a school shooting over here, and the government is openly saying that that has changed their minds in gun regulations issues, and they say that underaged people should not get guns anymore and the application process should be slow.
I don't think all that makes sense, there are plenty of responsible youngsters living in the countryside who use their weapon for hunting, mostly with their parents. It's not like guns are some black magic. They are equipment that can be dangerous if used that way, yes. I've occasionally worked with them some since youth and they require some basic safety training but it's quite easy if you are a normal kid who has turned 12 or so.
 

Just call me Ray

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Orionblamblam said:
Bleah. PAPOP is the same class of "looks cool in sci-fi, sucks in real life that OICW was:


Amazingly enough the OICW looks far more practical than the PAPOP.
 

jstar

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Speaking as an ex-infantryman, I personally would not want to have to have to lug
either one of those around, no matter how cool they look. Way too awkward.
 

Firefly 2

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It's the electronics and the grenade magazine that makes them bulky, I guess. Using polymers they wouldn't have been much heavier than let's say an M4 with an M203 launcher and some added optics.
 

Archibald

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Belgium is perfect example !
they have the Restrictive gun law in the World !
No Full Automatic Guns, Rifle, MG (sub Heavy) Shutgun, Teaser, Peperspray except for Police
only Revolver, some Automatic Revolver and Gun for Hunting and that
with only Police interrogation and Psychological Exam every five Years...
even for Air gun !
Gunclubs have very restrictive order to keep they Weapons Lock up

and ?

The Kid arm there self with knife, screwdriver, hammers.
Baseball became "very popular" because the you can used the bat it as Weapon.
Golf also, Paintball because the Guns use under safety range they make serious injury

in Belgium 15 years old kid murder other kid for MP3 Player with knife
or do Gangwars ( I moving to new house because i life between two Gangs... )
we had first Drive by shooting here (with Air Guns, but they make serious injury at Victim)

and Wat is the absurd on that ?
BEGLIUM IS A BIG WEAPON MANUFACTOR IN WORLD (FN HERSTAL)

i need a Gun...
or gona move to USA (i think Utah is nice place )

Can't agree with this statement. An angry man with a knife will "only" (sorry for this word) kill 2 or three people in the street.
Give him an assault gun similar to what si shown here, and he will kill dozen of people.

Trouble is, even an "ordinary" man (or woman) can go nut if he has had a bad day, or is very, very irritated about something (for example, his boss).
And guess what happened in this case ? Rage and murder.
Now, give this angry guy an assault gun, and watch the result...

That's a fact.
 

Rickshaw

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I'm sorry. I know from extensive military experience, guns are dangerous objects which most civilians aren't trained sufficiently to my satisfaction to use safely. However, I'd also suggest American society is not the same as any other society and I would suggest attempting to try and derive any lesson from American society's almost incestuous relationship with firearms would be difficult, if not downright impossible (and yes, this means that trying to impose non-American societies' lessons on American society is equally as silly). Americans appear happy with the problems that widespread gun ownership have brought their society, whereas I'd suggest most non-Americans have no desire to repeat those same errors.
 

flateric

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Looks damn cool, and don't kill...just make you blind...
 

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Just call me Ray

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flateric said:
Looks damn cool, and don't kill...just make you blind...

And just wait until you find out what it's called:

The Personnel Halting AndStimulation Response rifle.

Yup. That's right:

 

sferrin

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rickshaw said:
I'm sorry. I know from extensive military experience, guns are dangerous objects which most civilians aren't trained sufficiently to my satisfaction to use safely. However, I'd also suggest American society is not the same as any other society and I would suggest attempting to try and derive any lesson from American society's almost incestuous relationship with firearms would be difficult, if not downright impossible (and yes, this means that trying to impose non-American societies' lessons on American society is equally as silly). Americans appear happy with the problems that widespread gun ownership have brought their society, whereas I'd suggest most non-Americans have no desire to repeat those same errors.

Hey, give us a thousand years and maybe we'll evolve to your plane of existence. ::)
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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OK, this topic is definitely closed.

Scott, I didn't appreciate the last post. Its not a topic to be used trivially. Removed pictures.
 
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