Gun launched Anti Tank missiles

uk 75

uk 75

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Both the US and France (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/amx-30-with-acra-gun-launched-missiles.1933/#post-16472) developed gun launched anti tank missiles in the 60s.
The US Shillelagh survived with the M551 Sheridans of the 82d Airborne but it was the Soviet Union who deployed them on its main battle tanks.
The UK and Germany prefered to develop the 120mm gun.
Perhaps if a version of Shillelagh or ACRA had been developed for the 120mm they might have been more successful.
 
Reloads ? Same problem as 'external tubes' on a sub...

The recent big muzzle-loading 'mobile mortars' have practicable work-arounds due to shorter projectiles, but ...
 
uk 75 said:
Both the US and France (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/amx-30-with-acra-gun-launched-missiles.1933/#post-16472) developed gun launched anti tank missiles in the 60s.
The US Shillelagh survived with the M551 Sheridans of the 82d Airborne but it was the Soviet Union who deployed them on its main battle tanks.
The UK and Germany prefered to develop the 120mm gun.
Perhaps if a version of Shillelagh or ACRA had been developed for the 120mm they might have been more successful.
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The problem is in how the system was imagined.

The US build a gunlike reloadable missile launcher that could also fire 152mm HEAT and Beehive rounds. Problem: recoil from the gun rounds was enough to disable the missile guidance electronics (yes, even in the M60A2).

The Soviets built missiles that they could launch out of guns, from 100mm to 125mm.

All other successful GL-ATGMs have been conceived as a missile you can launch out of a gun.
 
Australia trialled the Sheridan in 1968 and found it unsuitable mainly due to the ammunition. Apparently the combustible cartridge case wouldn't entirely combust and hot, flammable debris would fall back into the turret. This was so dangerous that only a single round of ammo was allowed to be carried during the trials. Also, for a couple of reasons, the effective range ofthe main gun was about 600 metres.

Presumably better ammo in other gun fired missiles would have eliminated the fire hazard in the M551. A rangefinder would also be standard in later GFMs, but the obsuration and recoil from firing might be a real problem.
 
Rule of cool said:
Australia trialled the Sheridan in 1968 and found it unsuitable mainly due to the ammunition. Apparently the combustible cartridge case wouldn't entirely combust and hot, flammable debris would fall back into the turret. This was so dangerous that only a single round of ammo was allowed to be carried during the trials. Also, for a couple of reasons, the effective range ofthe main gun was about 600 metres.

Presumably better ammo in other gun fired missiles would have eliminated the fire hazard in the M551. A rangefinder would also be standard in later GFMs, but the obsuration and recoil from firing might be a real problem.
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The later Sheridans and M60A2 had a compressed air system to blow the entire contents of the gun bore out the tube. This system reduced rate of fire to one round every 30 seconds.

The US Army was not amused by this.
 
uk 75 said:
Perhaps if a version of Shillelagh or ACRA had been developed for the 120mm they might have been more successful.
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uk 75, I'm under the impression that electronic componentry was still to big, bulky and fragile in the 1960's for miniaturisation down to 120mm. Hence the 152mm and 142mm for Shillelagh and ACRA respectively.

Regards
Pioneer
 
aonestudio said:
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...launched-missile-cheap-cruise-missile-at-dsei
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Target engagements at ~ 1500ms may be the most numerous but certainly limits the tank's overall contribution...would argue hardened electronics arent as costly as before and would allow greater rng from a genuine gun action launch. Likewise, already tested 140mm tk rds could facilitate a great deal more propellent.

Additionally, a 140mm gun can, in certain circumstances, out range even 155mm guns in a counter-battery role thus drastically enhancing a tank's ability to engage more targets of opportunity in the new "transparent battlefield. .
 
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jsport said:
Target engagements at ~ 1500ms may be the most numerous but certainly limits the tank's overall contribution...would argue hardened electronics arent as costly as before and would allow greater rng from a genuine gun action launch. Likewise, already tested 140mm tk rds could facilitate a great deal more propellent.

Additionally, a 140mm gun can, in certain circumstances, out range even 155mm guns in a counter-battery role thus drastically enhancing a tank's ability to engage more targets of opportunity in the new "transparent battlefield. .
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I suspect that a 120mm firing a subcaliber HE could reach out quite a long way. I know that Sabots sure can when they're accidentally fired at the HEAT/HESH setting.

The big problem is that 140mm is a big round, which means fewer rounds you can store inside. And once tanks start hitting targets at 10km+, they're going to be expected to make those shots regularly. Which increases the number of rounds expended in any given engagement.
 
When tanks are only being used in a limited raid role they need to make a significant deep effect and then retreat. the current front reflects that. No more tank on tank. Planners have emphasized forever, dont tank on tank. Tank where the adversary is vulnerable and ATGM where the adversary tank is.

Video games continue to spoon feed stupid. Tank on tank never makes any sense if one wants winning effects. Tanks in reserve to fill gaps...yea if you are already losing.
 
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I suspect that tank weaponry would soon evolve toward low-velocity 152-mm/155-mm guns, optimized for infantry support and fortification destruction. In such case, the re-appearance of gun-launched anti-tank missiles - for the cases when enemy armor needs to be engaged - would be logical.
 
Dilandu said:
I suspect that tank weaponry would soon evolve toward low-velocity 152-mm/155-mm guns, optimized for infantry support and fortification destruction. In such case, the re-appearance of gun-launched anti-tank missiles - for the cases when enemy armor needs to be engaged - would be logical.
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So long as any ATGM is designed Russian style. "We made a missile you can shoot out of a tank gun!"
 
https://www.armyrecognition.com/new...grate-loitering-munitions-on-m1a2-abrams-tankThe above could afford more endurance, but IMO would be best addressed w/ many gun-launched internally stored round/uas. Future direct fire engagements are likely to evolve into to some form of automated active Defense/Protection not the principal function of the crew. The crew will focus mostly on indirect fire based planning & execution. This level of automation has already been explored.
 
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Could guided howitzer rounds be developed any earlier? What about guided round for heavy mortars?
 
Every guided developed, but someone has to buy. Like everything, who is buyin.
 
If guided artillery rounds are more realistic than guided tank missiles then the US Army could buy them instead of the Shilleliegh.
 
Rule of cool said:
If guided artillery rounds are more realistic than guided tank missiles then the US Army could buy them instead of the Shilleliegh.
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A 152mm gun launched missile has been out of service for a many years.
 
jsport said:
A 152mm gun launched missile has been out of service for a many years.
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I imagine that guided artillery could be developed concurrently with guided tank gun missile. When the shilleligh proves useless within a year the effort could switch to artillery.
 
Excalibur 155mm has allegedly been proven to be inferior (pervasive jamming) to the antiquated laser guided 155mm Copperhead in Ukr.
It would appear Ukr or the Euros. will be left to develop guided tk rounds . The Russians seem to be well along and improving tank guided rounds.
 

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