Government sanctioned Area 51 documentary

[Orionblamblam]

Here's a perfectly good documentary on Area 51 from 2010. Everyone should watch this. At work, with the volume turned way up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVed8n3_ZrU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEh5-yaRkEw

 

[Michel Van]

HELL YEAR
Penn & Teller are sooo Cool !

for those uninformed
Penn & Teller are magicians
who look on there colleagues and Say: nice trick...BUT BORING MAN !
over do the trick and show public who it work
then they do a better (but outragous) trick


by the way someone put the german doku about Area 51 on Youtube
German languages "Geheimnis Area 51" by Dirk Pohlmann

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVjMOyDUNV8[/flash]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngt6kaysBJY[/flash]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLLUrqEcVY[/flash]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzUH4ljnWg[/flash]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpWwhP_y8Do[/flash]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGH_1Q1rwS8[/flash]

 

[blackstar]

Thanks to some tips I got here, I was able to write this:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1852/1

My review for the SF Chronicle should also come out soon.

Meanwhile, the book also got reviewed here:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/books/la-et-book-20110530,0,6422645.story

What annoys me is that critics look at all her endnotes and her interviews and assume that it is pretty much a great piece of research on Area 51 right up until the point where she goes nuts and starts talking about mutant Nazi teenagers working for Stalin. But it's not a well-researched book. She gets a lot of facts wrong and misses some important sources (for instance, no mention of Chris Pocock's 2004 book on the U-2). It's not like the Nazi teenager story is suddenly inconsistent with everything else she's written about.

 

[Stargazer]

Great article, Blackstar. I've just shared in on Facebook with all my English-speaking friends.

 

[SOC]

Thanks to some tips I got here, I was able to write this:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1852/1

Nice job. Since I have no intention of wasting my money, I'd have found it a bit more interesting if you cited some of the examples of the errors.

 

[Arjen]

Amazon.com: reviewer S. Buckl has a go at it.

I'm through the first four chapters of the book and I can already see that the author got an "F" in science. She may be a good reporter and a skilled writer, but she should have the book reviewed by a knowledgeable science consultant before publishing. The mistakes are so obvious that they destroy all credibility.

Here are some examples. On page 21, the author refers to the panic caused by the radio broadcast of the "War of the Worlds". She mentions that the public was "sensitized" due to recent technological advances, and she cites the jet engine, the radar and the microwave oven. None of these devices were known to the general public in 1938. Experimental jet engines were being developed in the UK and Germany, but were virtually unheard of in the USA. Radar was also in an experimental phase, and shrouded by a great deal of secrecy because of its military potential. The secrecy was so great that even the German military was not aware about the progress made in the field in the USA and UK, lets alone general public. Finally, the heating effect of microwaves was not discovered until 1945.

Then on page 29 the author says that the nuclear blast travels at 100 mph. As with any explosion, the shockwave travels at the speed of sound (approx. 700 mph).

On page 33 she refers to Peenemunde as the fabrication site for German V2 rockets. V2 was produced at Mittelwerk in the Kohnstein. The initial production line built at Peenemunde was destroyed in a RAF bomd raid. Peenemunde was the test site for V2 rockets, not a production site.

On page 34, the author refers to V2 as a "winged missile". V1 was the winged missile (a precursor of today's cruise missiles), while the V2 was a ballistic missile without wings, only small control surfaces in the tail.

And all these in the first 30 or so pages of the book...

Now, regarding the mysterious Soviet "flying saucer". There is absolutely no evidence that the Soviets had the technology to build a compact aircraft capable of flying at 1200 mph, intercontinental range, hovering capability, and stealthy in 1947. In fact, nobody is capable of building such an aircraft today. If such an aircraft was ever developed over 60 years ago, some information would have leaked out by now. Moreover, if the Soviets had such technology, why didn't they use it improve the performance of their military aircraft during the Cold War armament race?

Bolding mine. Don't buy.

 

[flateric]

price drop says for itself

 

[blackstar]

price drop says for itself

Actually, that's pretty standard for an Amazon new release.

 

[blackstar]

Amazon.com: reviewer S. Buckl has a go at it.

I know somebody who is compiling a list of errors for a long review he is writing.

I've been told that her assertion about Mengele contradicts what is known about him. He was apparently hiding in Germany until around 1948 until he fled to South America. There are a number of books about this, and she cites none of them.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

"Annie Jacobsen is an American journalist who writes about business, finance and terrorism for a variety of national and international magazines and webzines and, in particular the Los Angeles Times Magazine"

" The Los Angeles Times called it "highly readable" and "deeply researched...a dream for aviation and military buffs."

Hmm....

 

[Arjen]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[Stargazer]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

LOL! So true, unfortunately... :

 

[blackstar]

" The Los Angeles Times called it "highly readable" and "deeply researched...a dream for aviation and military buffs."

Yeah, you can smile at a positive book review in the LA Times of a book written by an LA Times reporter. But there have been positive reviews in other places too.

A couple of observations:

First, there is often a pattern to these kinds of things and we have seen this before. The early book reviews are all wonderful and positive. But then people start to ask hard questions and dig deeper into the book, and then the reviews start to become more negative. I think that book publishers often depend upon this, just like movie studios try to make a lot of money on opening day because they know that once people tell their friends "it stinks" they will lose audience. So you can probably expect a lot more negative reviews of this book, especially after Nightline did their story.

Second, there is another pattern here, which is what happens when generalists--i.e. not subject-matter experts--review a book written by a journalist that has credentials and especially when the book has a lot of footnotes. The reviewers see all the footnotes and a) assume that the reporter is "good" (otherwise why would they have a job at the LA Times?), and b) assume that the footnotes indicate that the reporter knew the material very well.

But both a) and b) are bad assumptions. There are lousy journalists working for major publications. And there are also a lot of people who can cite a lot of material, but still not understand that material. It would be useful for classified aircraft experts to look at her list of source material and try to determine what she missed that is important. A few things off the top of my head:

-no mention of Chris Pocock's 2004 book on the U-2
-no mention of the two USAF Roswell histories
-no mention of books on Joseph Mengele's post-WWII activities

Can anybody name other important sources she missed?

There is a good previous example of what I wrote about above concerning the best-selling book about the CIA "Legacy of Ashes." That book also got praised by other journalists. But then Jeff Richelson tore it to pieces in a review, noting that the author had misused and misunderstood many of his sources:

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/files/sins_of_omission_and_commission.pdf

 

[shockonlip]

Amazon.com: reviewer S. Buckl has a go at it.

I'm through the first four chapters of the book and I can already see that the author got an "F" in science. She may be a good reporter and a skilled writer, but she should have the book reviewed by a knowledgeable science consultant before publishing. The mistakes are so obvious that they destroy all credibility.

Here are some examples. On page 21, the author refers to the panic caused by the radio broadcast of the "War of the Worlds". She mentions that the public was "sensitized" due to recent technological advances, and she cites the jet engine, the radar and the microwave oven. None of these devices were known to the general public in 1938. Experimental jet engines were being developed in the UK and Germany, but were virtually unheard of in the USA. Radar was also in an experimental phase, and shrouded by a great deal of secrecy because of its military potential. The secrecy was so great that even the German military was not aware about the progress made in the field in the USA and UK, lets alone general public. Finally, the heating effect of microwaves was not discovered until 1945.

Then on page 29 the author says that the nuclear blast travels at 100 mph. As with any explosion, the shockwave travels at the speed of sound (approx. 700 mph).

On page 33 she refers to Peenemunde as the fabrication site for German V2 rockets. V2 was produced at Mittelwerk in the Kohnstein. The initial production line built at Peenemunde was destroyed in a RAF bomd raid. Peenemunde was the test site for V2 rockets, not a production site.

On page 34, the author refers to V2 as a "winged missile". V1 was the winged missile (a precursor of today's cruise missiles), while the V2 was a ballistic missile without wings, only small control surfaces in the tail.

And all these in the first 30 or so pages of the book...

Now, regarding the mysterious Soviet "flying saucer". There is absolutely no evidence that the Soviets had the technology to build a compact aircraft capable of flying at 1200 mph, intercontinental range, hovering capability, and stealthy in 1947. In fact, nobody is capable of building such an aircraft today. If such an aircraft was ever developed over 60 years ago, some information would have leaked out by now. Moreover, if the Soviets had such technology, why didn't they use it improve the performance of their military aircraft during the Cold War armament race?

Bolding mine. Don't buy.

The Amazon.com: reviewer S. Buckl made some boo-boos too!
Many of us can find them above, but one requires some in depth
knowledge from reading aerospace engineering books or asking
someone who has the knowledge.

Technical stuff can be hard to get right!

So, she screwed up, and her publisher screwed up not getting
the book reviewed by someone who had a clue. That alone would have
probably saved the day here as that would have also alerted
her publisher on the teenage mutant junk.

I am amazed by the lack of caution she exhibited on not checking
with her other Area 51 sources on the teenage mutant story. She would
have gotten warnings from those guys. That should have raised a
big question in her mind. I would really like to ask her that to see
what she said.

After all, one of those Area 51 guys gave her the story on the
teenage mutants. When Bill Weir from ABC News in Las Vegas,
and his boss talked with that source, they reported that to them,
this man seemed obviously confused and conflicted. I believe they
used the word "obviously" because they were trying to understand
why Annie Jacobsen didn't notice it. In Annie's defense though,
perhaps ABC saw him on a bad day. Weir also indicated the guy was
in his late 80s. Who knows. I actually thought that maybe this
source had read the the 1956 "Astounding Science Fiction"
story "Tomb Tappers" by James Blish, and then got confused. It would
be another interesting question.

So the bad news is that it wasn't just one mistake that was made but
a number of them in the system of checks and balances.

The good news is that such editorial staffs need good technically
capable people who can do the research and run down the facts and
check online sources, etc. Perhaps now they will at least work
with stringers. So some of you guys on this forum who love research
may be interested! You never know!

 

[blackstar]

The good news is that such editorial staffs need good technically
capable people who can do the research and run down the facts and
check online sources, etc. Perhaps now they will at least work
with stringers. So some of you guys on this forum who love research
may be interested! You never know!

Unfortunately they don't do this. Getting a reviewer, or a fact-checker, costs money. Now at most it costs them a few thousands of dollars (less than 20, probably less than 10 to hire a fact-checker). But they don't like spending that cash.

 

[shockonlip]

The good news is that such editorial staffs need good technically
capable people who can do the research and run down the facts and
check online sources, etc. Perhaps now they will at least work
with stringers. So some of you guys on this forum who love research
may be interested! You never know!

Unfortunately they don't do this. Getting a reviewer, or a fact-checker, costs money. Now at most it costs them a few thousands of dollars (less than 20, probably less than 10 to hire a fact-checker). But they don't like spending that cash.

Yours truly did this for awhile.

True I didn't get paid and I was unofficial and I didn't get brought in
on everything.

But I was brought in on some breaking stuff.

I enjoyed the research and helping analyze what they did bring me in
on.

Over time I was invited to certain events where I met leading aerospace
industry leaders and got to talk with other aerospace writers.

Eventually I proposed a piece which I wrote and the real writer cleaned
it up a bit and they actually published it! The official writer got the
byline but I was credited at the end for the research. Also got a few
hundred bucks. I was on cloud 9 !

It was the getting in early on the story, helping noodle the thing,
doing the research, yes, getting to use the name of the big publication
(I always asked permission before I did that and they always cautioned
my on what I could and couldn't say). Getting to meet some of the other
writers. Also pushing them in areas I wanted them to go in (they did some
and didn't do others). It was actually a very cool non-paying job !!
We both got something ut of it.

It was very fun !!

And I think it offers benefits to such publications as they can't afford
to pay for some of the stuff they need these days.

 

[blackstar]

Yours truly did this for awhile.

Was that for an academic or society press?

The problem is that really big publishing houses just don't do this, even when they'll spend huge gobs of money on advertising. They just don't care about accuracy. Academic presses can be better, but so much of professional (print) publishing depends upon the author being conscientious and good.

 

[shockonlip]

Yours truly did this for awhile.

Was that for an academic or society press?

The problem is that really big publishing houses just don't do this, even when they'll spend huge gobs of money on advertising. They just don't care about accuracy. Academic presses can be better, but so much of professional (print) publishing depends upon the author being conscientious and good.

It was a major magazine.

So was she writing an LA Times newspaper piece that became
a book, or did she start out with a book that became a newspaper
story (in more ways than one).

If it was a book, then I see your point. Although there
is no reason why a book writer couldn't use the services of a
stringer to help organize and plan things, especially in unfamiliar
waters for the journalist.

If it was a LA Times newspaper piece, then my point about
stringers applies.

 

[blackstar]

So was she writing an LA Times newspaper piece that became
a book, or did she start out with a book that became a newspaper
story (in more ways than one).

If it was a book, then I see your point. Although there
is no reason why a book writer couldn't use the services of a
stringer to help organize and plan things, especially in unfamiliar
waters for the journalist.

If it was a LA Times newspaper piece, then my point about
stringers applies.

This stuff goes both ways--sometimes a reporter writes a long story and decides it could be a book. Sometimes they are given permission to go research a book with the condition that they have to do a feature-length story for the magazine/newspaper.

You are right that an individual author could get a research assistant to track stuff down. Sometimes that is included in their book advance contract. But it costs money, and usually they use such a person to research, not to check facts.

 

[Dark Eagle]

The biggest deal about revealing information about Area 51 is to saturate conspiracy with continued dis-information.

The only reason they let this information out to begin with in 07 was to honor the sacrifices of the people who developed these programs. Which was also a means to create more dis-nformation.

Their mistake~ was to NOT censor out one word in the primary document, "The History of the OXCART Program", by Kelly Johnson

Everything about it since then has been an effort to back step and cover up this mistake. They will only succeed in making people more curious.

There is no way they are going to release information about want they do there, or reveal any new platforms. If you want to know when a new platform will be revealed you'll have to wait until one crashes in plain sight and they have no way to cover it up.

Jacobsen's book is a good read, but like anything else, it's filled with dis-information. You just have to wade through it. There are some very interesting connections.

 

[Mat Parry]

Their mistake~ was to NOT censor out one word in the primary document, "The History of the OXCART Program", by Kelly Johnson

Sorry if this is a dumb question, can you tell me what was the one word which was mistakenly un-censored, and in what context (a single quote) was it used?

Thanks

 

[flateric]

'Area'

 

[InvisibleDefender]

The biggest deal about revealing information about Area 51 is to saturate conspiracy with continued dis-information.

The only reason they let this information out to begin with in 07 was to honor the sacrifices of the people who developed these programs. Which was also a means to create more dis-nformation.

Their mistake~ was to NOT censor out one word in the primary document, "The History of the OXCART Program", by Kelly Johnson

Everything about it since then has been an effort to back step and cover up this mistake. They will only succeed in making people more curious.

There is no way they are going to release information about want they do there, or reveal any new platforms. If you want to know when a new platform will be revealed you'll have to wait until one crashes in plain sight and they have no way to cover it up.

Jacobsen's book is a good read, but like anything else, it's filled with dis-information. You just have to wade through it. There are some very interesting connections.

I totally disagree about the USAF or DARPA declassifying programs only because they have failed. What about Have Blue, Tacit Blue, Broomstick, Gnat, Bird of Prey, etc, etc, etc........

 

[Dark Eagle]

Their mistake~ was to NOT censor out one word in the primary document, "The History of the OXCART Program", by Kelly Johnson

Sorry if this is a dumb question, can you tell me what was the one word which was mistakenly un-censored, and in what context (a single quote) was it used?

Thanks

Not a lot of people have seen this document because it's a PDF. Key word searches don't bring it up.

http://www.foia.cia.gov/browse_docs.asp?doc_no=0001458639&no_pages=0025&showPage=0001

Page 4.
" By this time we were working with P&W on a J58 engine. To overcome the afterburner problem of a large radar cross section return from the aft quadrant, we proposed the use of cesium additive to the fuel. This was first brought up by Mr. Ed Lovick of ADP, and its final development was passed over to P&W. It was eventually a basic part of our cross section reduction methods."

Page 9.
"We were able to prove by 1 January 1960 that our concept of shape, additive, and loaded plastic parts had enough promise to warrant going forward with the project."

~~~~~~~~

The CIA tried to hide this information when their Historian "rewrote" the Archangel story. All information about cesium was omitted from the rewrite. Why?

I was told by ????? "potential litigation".

This document and the new book by Ed Lovick describes this material was the main reason the project existed. I suspect some of the contents of this book is dis-information.

I propose it was the sole reason for the aircraft's demise. Why do I believe this? Because I was there, I saw what was happening in regards to environmental regulations and laws.

A lot of people do not realized what the big deal was. In the mid to late eighties, scientist discovered that cesium was being absorbed into plants and animals through the food chain.

It was once thought that associated hazards of cesium was only of concern to radioactive cesium and that once the radioactivity decayed, it would be safe.

The Center for Disease Control based it's studies on possible exposures to tiny amounts of cesium whether it is radioactive or stable. Read the CDC's Health Effects for cesium, if cesium was a component of the fuel their data and studies are flawed.

It's studies in no way considered large potential exposures as an additive to jet fuel in which 20+ billion pounds of it was used during the last quarter of the 20th century.

Plus, the Environmental Assessment Report for the deactivation of the SR-71 did not include the use of this additive. <That's a big NO-NO!

Anyway, there are many more connections to the use of heavy metal serums going back to WWII, the stories, true or not are quite interesting indeed.

 

[blackstar]

And now Richard Rhodes ("The Making of the Atomic Bomb") chimes in:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/annie-jacobsens-area-51-the-us-top-secret-military-base/2011/05/26/AGIZPLIH_story.html

"Annie Jacobsen, a Los Angeles-based independent journalist, does an adequate if error-ridden job of reporting on these black-budget projects and several others besides, using the classic investigative method of interviewing dozens and dozens of worker bees from engineers to security guards and piecing their stories together. Then, like a test pilot who pushes her plane too far, she crashes and burns on the grisly tales of an unnamed single source, supposedly an Area 51 engineer and Manhattan Project veteran who leads her on a wild goose chase of honking absurdity straight down the UFO vapor trail into the very heart of conspiratorial darkness. There Jacobsen is told that Auschwitz butcher Dr. Josef Mengele, the German aircraft-designing brothers Walter and Reimar Horten and Soviet dictator Josef Stalin conspired back in the late 1940s to scare America silly with a Nazi-Soviet flying saucer crowded with wobbly 13-year-olds with large, surgically altered heads. Except that the thing crashed. In a barren corner of New Mexico. Really."

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Just slightly off-topic, on the subject of radioactive additives to the Blackbird's fuel, it brings to mind something I saw in Landis' Blackbird book. In the section on the D-21, a picture capition describes the removal of the D-21's inlet spike because it contained magnesium-thorium.

I was just wondering if this is in any way tied in to the use of additives in the Blackbird's fuel.

 

[Dark Eagle]

And now Richard Rhodes ("The Making of the Atomic Bomb") chimes in:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/annie-jacobsens-area-51-the-us-top-secret-military-base/2011/05/26/AGIZPLIH_story.html

"Annie Jacobsen, a Los Angeles-based independent journalist, does an adequate if error-ridden job of reporting on these black-budget projects and several others besides, using the classic investigative method of interviewing dozens and dozens of worker bees from engineers to security guards and piecing their stories together. Then, like a test pilot who pushes her plane too far, she crashes and burns on the grisly tales of an unnamed single source, supposedly an Area 51 engineer and Manhattan Project veteran who leads her on a wild goose chase of honking absurdity straight down the UFO vapor trail into the very heart of conspiratorial darkness. There Jacobsen is told that Auschwitz butcher Dr. Josef Mengele, the German aircraft-designing brothers Walter and Reimar Horten and Soviet dictator Josef Stalin conspired back in the late 1940s to scare America silly with a Nazi-Soviet flying saucer crowded with wobbly 13-year-olds with large, surgically altered heads. Except that the thing crashed. In a barren corner of New Mexico. Really."

Ms. Jacobens work is not an imagination of sensationalistic claims as that dumb ass Richard Rhodes says.

It may not be all that accurate, but it does connect the dots to other revelations. She was correct in bringing out this information and she was correct by stating it's source and placing these theories in proper perspective.

She says she believe the guy, but that doesn't mean what he remembers is fact. It just may be the way he perceives it.

I know how wild and silly this thing about Dr. Menglele's genetically engineered 13 year old aviators sounds. Actually it's quite ridicules. But, it does tie something in to the theory I have about Roswell.

Just slightly off-topic, on the subject of radioactive additives to the Blackbird's fuel, it brings to mind something I saw in Landis' Blackbird book. In the section on the D-21, a picture capition describes the removal of the D-21's inlet spike because it contained magnesium-thorium.

I was just wondering if this is in any way tied in to the use of additives in the Blackbird's fuel.

I don't think the Blackbird's actually used a radioactive variant of cesium. The 30% Cesium Metal in Dialkyl Phosphite was soluble in the JP-7 and IONIZED by the high exhaust gas temperatures. This reaction breaks the free electrons from the cesium molecule which then absorbs radar waves in the exhaust plume.

The D-21 used a Marquardt RJ43-MA-11 ramjet (modified missile engines). I never worked on the D-21, I would like to see more information about it, thorium is an alpha emitter. It the D-21's on display contain this material then they should be protected, those materials should be preserved by encapsulation materials and not left outside to the elements and decay. This could expose children and that would be bad.

 

[blackstar]

Actually it's quite ridicules. But, it does tie something in to the theory I have about Roswell.

Let's hear your theory.

 

[Dark Eagle]

It's pretty bad, you may not feel like eating your popcorn after reading it. But, remember you asked for it.

I have collected a few links, but I would rather have people do their own research, it's pretty far out there. But, not as far out as the Area 51 Engineer's story.

So many people are intrigued by the secret base and facilities such as AREA 51 where the U-2's and Blackbirds were developed. Big hit movies out of Hollywood and countless TV programs. It seems like everyone that I have seen has reference to the Blackbirds.

People have dedicated their lives in the research of such phenomena. But, is it just phenomena?

The subject always turns to Aliens from outer space. The reality of it all is more likely to be Earthbound. Aliens not from other Worlds but rather aliens from abroad.

In the race for advance technology and domination of the free World we committed ourselves to this goal at any cost.

The NAZI's that we brought to the US under programs like Operation Paperclip were of a different breed, a different thought, a different culture. They had no qualms about dissecting live human children and preforming horrendous human experimentation's.

Taken from their families, slicing open babies, removing their lymph glades, infecting them with TB. Subjecting people to intense pressures in altitude chambers, live chemical testing, poisons, experimental subjects were shot with poisonous bullets, radiation, people suffered, tortured, and often died or were just shot and disposed of just like laboratory rats. This is just a tiny example of what these maniacs were capable of and did every day.

Experiments on twin children in concentration camps were created to show the similarities and differences in the genetics of twins, as well as to see if the human body can be unnaturally manipulated. The central leader of the experiments was Josef Mengele, who from 1943-1944 performed experiments on nearly 1,500 sets of imprisoned twins at Auschwitz.

From about September 1942 to about December 1943 experiments were conducted at the Ravensbrück concentration camp, for the benefit of the German Armed Forces, to study bone, muscle, and nerve regeneration, and bone transplantation from one person to another. Sections of bones, muscles, and nerves were removed from the subjects without use of anesthesia. As a result of these operations, many victims suffered intense agony, mutilation, and permanent disability.

Today you go to work and have a cup of coffee, and do a task. In that time they would have mutilated some tiny child or two and had the corpses thrown in a heap to be burned with the daily trash.

This was their norm, their moral standard. These are the people we brought to the US to work and in some cases run our programs, gave immunity to and protected.

I wonder if the rumors and sightings at Roswell and AREA 51 are just extensions of the NAZI agenda. Maybe it wasn't "Aliens" the witnesses saw at the crash site, maybe it was human children, all contorted and deformed by the experiment. With these NAZI's running the programs. It makes more sense that our government was dropping children from high altitude to see the effects. Maybe the sightings were the result of human experimentation's that our government was doing. After all this was just the average day at work for those guys. They were use to no different.

Alien technology, flying saucers, UFO's, Roswell, Area 51. Are they real or a just part of a security strategy refereed to as disinformation propaganda designed to reflect the horrendous facts of real history.

One must consider the "national state of mind" at the end of WWII, our desperate need for advance technology and our panic state as we entered the nuclear cold war.

American hatred toward the Japanese was most prominent. American media and general attitudes depicted the death and elimination of every last "Jap".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment

After the end of WWII the Atomic Bomb attack on Hiroshima left untold casualties, among them over 6000 orphans alone in that one attack. With survivors burned beyond recognition to the point where not even a persons sex could not be identified. The resulting burns of the survivors left no distinguishable features, no ears, or noses, no hair, the burned tissue between the fingers would make fingers and hands appear longer, no sex organs, burned skin would appear wrinkled and leathery without pigment, burned eye lids would make a Japanese child's almond shaped eyes appear larger. Sounds like the description of what they call Small Gray Aliens.

The Japanese surrendered "unconditionally".

America, under Operation Paperclip held, hired, coerced, the worlds top scientist and engineers from NAZI Germany. These scientist include people like Hubertus Strughold. (The aeromedical library at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas had been named after Hubertus Strughold in 1977. He is known as the Father of Space Medicine. However, it was later renamed because documents from the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal linked Strughold to medical experiments in which inmates from Dachau were tortured and killed.) I read a document that said Dr. Strughold was at Roswell that day, his expertise was Hypoxia.

These were the people we put in charge of many advanced programs taking America into the technological lead for World domination.

With so many subjects at hand would it not be beyond the capabilities of these scientist to use (wounded Japanese, inhumane and murderous Japanese war criminals) for making perfect guinea pigs for such in high altitude experiments, etc. High altitude balloons would require very small and lightweight subjects. There were some programs involved with the use of human guinea pigs from the Atomic Bomb Survivors.

Remember Japanese were not even considered human at that time and the NAZI's had no qualms for human experimentation.

For example- Could it be the reported alien sightings at Roswell were in fact the results of high altitude experiments using wounded and disfigured children of the Japanese atomic bomb attacks. Could the descriptive reports of the sightings at Roswell actually have been a secretly held supply of human guinea pigs?

Could this be a good enough reason for a disinformation program where in the truth will never be told?

What makes more sense, genetically engineered child pilots of expatriate Nazi's or using disfigured children of the Japanese atomic attacks for hypoxia experiments? Could there be a Mengele connection?

That's it, but remember it's just a theory.

 

[Orionblamblam]

For example- Could it be the reported alien sightings at Roswell were in fact the results of high altitude experiments using wounded and disfigured children of the Japanese atomic bomb attacks. Could the descriptive reports of the sightings at Roswell actually have been a secretly held supply of human guinea pigs?

Could this be a good enough reason for a disinformation program where in the truth will never be told?

What makes more sense, genetically engineered child pilots of expatriate Nazi's or using disfigured children of the Japanese atomic attacks for hypoxia experiments? Could there be a Mengele connection?

 

[blackstar]

It's pretty bad, you may not feel like eating your popcorn after reading it. But, remember you asked for it.

Thank you. I've learned a lot here.

 

[Dark Eagle]

The use of human guinea pigs is nothing new to reality. Clinton was apologizing for the U.S. "again" just a few month back. It's all easy enough to google.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/4307262/Nazi-angel-of-death-Josef-Mengele-created-twin-town-in-Brazil.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1126504/The-Twins-Brazil-Did-Nazi-doctor-Mengele--Angel-Death--cause-twin-surge-South-American-town.html


I wonder if somebody set Dr. M up down there after the war. Maybe too hot to bring in the U.S.

Strughold the handsome tall, blue eyed, blond was not as well known. His background was kept out of the N-burg trials. He could have been the U.S. connection, besides he was the head of the medical program.

How hard would it be to use Dr. M as a medical liaison / check-out point for the guinea pigs.

The story in Jacobsen's book has Dr. M involved in another scenario, but a plane crash.

That could be understandable, transporting g-pigs but it rules out the high altitude balloon story.
In summary,
It's my opinion, if that was true, at any age, I believe these people had a huge dedication to their emperor and their country. They were probably living in agony, with no hope for long term survival, no one to care for them, lost in a sea pain. To make such an operation possible these individuals most likely volunteered as in the heroic tradition of the Samurai, giving their lives into the "divine wind" as the Kamikaze.

In any case it's quite possible this could have happened. Kept out of public view for the protection of the Republic and the advancement of mankind. Saving humanity from the scourges of communism.

Their only memory would be as Neil Armstrong said as he set foot on the surface of the moon "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind".

"Like many others, their names will not be known".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

 

[Orionblamblam]

We're heading into a whole weird area here.

 

[sublight]

* Click *

 

[flateric]

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8579490/Area-51-the-plane-truth.html