Franco German MBT60

[uk 75]

In real life France and Germany built separate prototypes of AMX30 and Leopard which were intended to be combined into a final lproduction tank.
Germany did get as far as building the MBT70 with the US but efforts with the UK never got anywhere.
Had Germany accepted the French 105mm gun and France been willing to get the tank earlier than 1965, a joint Char Leo might have entered service with both countries.
Fast forward to 1967 and instead of MBT70 Germany and France decide to build an ACRA missile equipped tank, plus some with the Rheinmetall 120mm gun.
Leo2 is also tested in its 120mm version by the US and UK. The tank proves itself cheaper and more reliable than either XM1 or Chieftain.. Licence production versions are ordered for USAREUR and BAOR.
Leox 1 and 2 are also bought by Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Turkey.

 

[Lascaris]

That's probably workable, mate the AMX30 turret with the Leopard hull, the proposal was actually made in real life. Post that the French and the Germans did actually have a joint project for a little while, using the Leopard 2 hull with a new turret before the French went their way with Leclerc. And TTL you'll probably be getting the proposed Leopard 2 hull/Leclerc turret combination around 2000 instead of sometime in the 2020s or later...

 

[Michel Van]

the biggest Problems were political and assessment
on French side DeGaulle wanted to exit Nato on long term once "Force de Frappe" was operational
on German side Defence Minister Franz Joseph Strauss oppose the common tank project
next to that the Bundeswehr refused the French 105mm gun do issue with NATO ammunition.

Let assume the French and Germans had found Agreement like Leopard hull AMX30 turret with German 105mm gun for NATO ammo.
it would save France allot problem in 1970s with AMX30B models and there Ammo.

i could imagine that the French and Germans (with other NATO partner) develop successor to LEO for 1980s

 

[Andrei_bt]

That's probably workable, mate the AMX30 turret with the Leopard hull, the proposal was actually made in real life. Post that the French and the Germans did actually have a joint project for a little while, using the Leopard 2 hull with a new turret before the French went their way with Leclerc. And TTL you'll probably be getting the proposed Leopard 2 hull/Leclerc turret combination around 2000 instead of sometime in the 2020s or later...

Thanks, interesting, is there any source confirming this?

 

[zen]

Wouldn't it help if both opted for British 105mm NATO tank gun?

 

[TomS]

Wouldn't it help if both opted for British 105mm NATO tank gun?

I thought the German gun essentially was the British 105mm L7 gun made under license.

The issue was that the French wanted their specific low-twist gun, because they thought HEAT was a better bet than APDS for tank killing, and HEAT worked better with a lower spin rate while APDS (but not APFSDS) needed a higher spin rate. Turns out they bet wrong (by the 1970s, anyway) but unless you can convince them of that in the early 1960s, this is probably an unsquarable circle.