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Stinger MANPADS are being modified to avert obsolescence and add some new capabilities such as the proximity fuze but the end of it's use and service is foreseeable. I´ve read about the "Future Stinger Capability Working Group". What covers behind this group?
Are there any new planned systems in the project status, maybe a pulsed energy system from the many Stinger, Mistral and Starstreak users?
 
An electronics kill warhead would certainly extend the lethal radius of the missile in some instances but the real truth is inherent to the USAr's view that "And if you really get into trouble, you can use the Javelin on slow helos!"

Which is indicative of an air-centric platform dominance that wants responsibility for all area air defense and doesn't want little pongos with rockets firing willy nilly at them as they go by.

And herein lies the real problem and potential for any followon to Man Portables: Acquisition Range, Carry Weight and Flight Range are _not_ proportional.

Go to YT and look up: 'Fastest RC Airplane, 400mph'.

Sure, it's about 3ft across and 2.5ft long, definitely non packable.

But it is a turbine and it has 5 minutes = 30 miles of radius. Cut that in half and you still have an EXCELLENT platform for flying over the nearest ridgeline and tagging out that Apache as it comes to the bob up for a Hellfire shot.

And because you don't have to know that it is there by /seeing it/ (with organic to unit systems), you can start to emphasize UGS and AHMs as your rapid lay cueing devices.

AWACS or TPQ or no, this gives you the area cue to push round out there which can hurt the other guy before he can hurt you, thus obviating the old saw: "If the enemy is range, so are you." With the 21st century: "Yeah but I'm not sitting in a 65ft long, 140 decibel supersized housefan, beating the air into submission."

In particular, if you want to hunt drones like the RQ-1/9 and it's Chinese equivalents, you really need more than a 2,200lb ZPU-2 to do your work for you. If you have a 50lb ADADS, a set of 5, 15lb, modified artillery acoustic firefinders and a 5X 30lbs interceptors you can fly with your IPhone, you've just chopped 87% off your donkey weight TOE.

How does this effect us?

How long do you think it will be before we are the ones fighting a numerically if not technically air-superior Chinese threatfor on their turf?

Keeping in mind that Stinger was originally 'ADSM and MLMS' intended to be multi-roled, with superior American technical integration it is theoretically possible that a drone you carry for high-eye survelliance and possible air defense against threat helo forces and the like could also be dove into a truck which your optics eldge-locked on your wrist mounted PDA.

Coupled with added volume for a parachute, this means you have a piece of junk airframe (just like the Ukrainians and Russians are 3D Printing by the bulk ton) which can be made more effective (longer loiter between gas-gone recovery = remote launch and support site) than say a Switchblade or equivalent, dedicated, loitering ATR.

Mix and Match. Multiple Missions, one Mission Airframe.
 
here is an early proposal for a turkish manpad from roketsan aselsan
 

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LEG said:
An electronics kill warhead would certainly extend the lethal radius of the missile in some instances but the real truth is inherent to the USAr's view that "And if you really get into trouble, you can use the Javelin on slow helos!"

Which is indicative of an air-centric platform dominance that wants responsibility for all area air defense and doesn't want little pongos with rockets firing willy nilly at them as they go by.

And herein lies the real problem and potential for any followon to Man Portables: Acquisition Range, Carry Weight and Flight Range are _not_ proportional.

Go to YT and look up: 'Fastest RC Airplane, 400mph'.

Sure, it's about 3ft across and 2.5ft long, definitely non packable.

But it is a turbine and it has 5 minutes = 30 miles of radius. Cut that in half and you still have an EXCELLENT platform for flying over the nearest ridgeline and tagging out that Apache as it comes to the bob up for a Hellfire shot.

And because you don't have to know that it is there by /seeing it/ (with organic to unit systems), you can start to emphasize UGS and AHMs as your rapid lay cueing devices.

AWACS or TPQ or no, this gives you the area cue to push round out there which can hurt the other guy before he can hurt you, thus obviating the old saw: "If the enemy is range, so are you." With the 21st century: "Yeah but I'm not sitting in a 65ft long, 140 decibel supersized housefan, beating the air into submission."

In particular, if you want to hunt drones like the RQ-1/9 and it's Chinese equivalents, you really need more than a 2,200lb ZPU-2 to do your work for you. If you have a 50lb ADADS, a set of 5, 15lb, modified artillery acoustic firefinders and a 5X 30lbs interceptors you can fly with your IPhone, you've just chopped 87% off your donkey weight TOE.

How does this effect us?

How long do you think it will be before we are the ones fighting a numerically if not technically air-superior Chinese threatfor on their turf?

Keeping in mind that Stinger was originally 'ADSM and MLMS' intended to be multi-roled, with superior American technical integration it is theoretically possible that a drone you carry for high-eye survelliance and possible air defense against threat helo forces and the like could also be dove into a truck which your optics eldge-locked on your wrist mounted PDA.

Coupled with added volume for a parachute, this means you have a piece of junk airframe (just like the Ukrainians and Russians are 3D Printing by the bulk ton) which can be made more effective (longer loiter between gas-gone recovery = remote launch and support site) than say a Switchblade or equivalent, dedicated, loitering ATR.

Mix and Match. Multiple Missions, one Mission Airframe.
feelin some agreement especially on current threat and need for Multi mission one airframe (not seeing any of that from any direction.. but not surprising when creatures like Switchblade are still being taken seriously) but could you please elaborate on ADSM, MLMS, and ADADS?
 
Something like this, especially with FPV, could be a problem. (I guess you could just jam the signal though. If you had a jammer onboard that is.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mav_0yA1z8
 
I read on DTIC last year that the Army and Marines are/were investigating integrating a single shot laser system into the Surplus Stinger MANPADS. Although with power and cooling issues you wouldn't really have enough energy for anything but small uavs.
 
John21 said:
I read on DTIC last year that the Army and Marines are/were investigating integrating a single shot laser system into the Surplus Stinger MANPADS. Although with power and cooling issues you wouldn't really have enough energy for anything but small uavs.

If it's intended for single-shot you don't need to worry about cooling. But good luck to the poor guy trying to aim the thing. Imagine trying to target that RC plane in the video above with a laser pointer.
 
They're looking at man-portable versions of MHTK. Here's the launch canister for MHTK (which gets quad-packed into one MML tube).
 

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Marauder, although not related to this here, but will the SLAMRAAM, or the larger AMRAAM-ER fit the MML? (I know they don't plan on using the interceptor...)
 
The MML canisters are sized to hold AIM-9X. No way a SLAMRAAM would fit.
 
TomS said:
The MML canisters are sized to hold AIM-9X. No way a SLAMRAAM would fit.

Indeed. Had to do a bit of digging and it is really sized for the AIM9X as the largest interceptor. So 15 9x's per launcher or 15x4 MHTK 'like' interceptors.
 

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The benefit of a MANPAD is that it is human portable. However that limits all-up weight for seekers, warhead, and fuel. I was wondering if anyone knows of a proposal for splitting the system between two soldiers with a solid fuel booster stage carried by the other soldier in order to increase range?
 
Avimimus said:
The benefit of a MANPAD is that it is human portable. However that limits all-up weight for seekers, warhead, and fuel. I was wondering if anyone knows of a proposal for splitting the system between two soldiers with a solid fuel booster stage carried by the other soldier in order to increase range?

It's an interesting idea but I think you would still need a tripod for launch unless those exo-skeletons get deployed.

I was thinking about a recoilless rifle fired ramjet assisted projectile that would exploit some of the guidance tech from the Railgun effort.

Come to think of it, a one-shot, man-portable Railgun might be possible with advances in energy storage.
 
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/01/cheap-drones-exquisite-weapons/125216/

"Even small numbers of intelligent, mobile IEDs would be a major problem for U.S. forces — yet tech trends indicate we could face tens of thousands of such drones on the battlefield.

The presence of numerous inexpensive, autonomous air and sea drones will soon be an inescapable part of the battlefield.
We’re several years past the ability to 3D-print a drone in a single day; researchers are now refining prototype systems that can print 25 to 100 times faster than that. A single small facility with only 10 such printers will soon be able to produce 1,000 drones a day. These will be autonomous weapons that can attack with precision to destroy vehicles, parked aircraft, fuel, and ammunition stores."
 
Small drones look like the answer to the air threat - they can be produced at a fraction of the price of missiles, and have far greater range and maneuverability.
They may not be able to catch a jet, but that may not be the point: if they can prevent aircraft from operating in an area they will have done their job.

See http://www.swarm-troopers.com/scenarios/ "Defying the bear"

Is anyone aware of any serious development in this area?
 
Wembley said:
They may not be able to catch a jet, but that may not be the point: if they can prevent aircraft from operating in an area they will have done their job.

If they can't catch jets how are they suppose to prevent them from operating in the area? (On the other hand there are very small RC turbines available, and would could probably build a small UAV that could catch one though it's endurance would be so small you may as well use a missile.)
 
MANPADS_stinger.jpg


The US Army is seeking a replacement for its Raytheon FIM-92 Stinger short-range air-defence (SHORAD) surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, with a request for information (RFI) issued to interested parties on 10 November.

The man-portable air defence system (MANPADS) RFI seeks to meet increasing demand to counter the growing aerial threat capabilities with a new SAM system to replace the Stinger that has been in the US Army inventory since the early 1980s.

“The Stinger Reprogrammable Microprocessor (RMP) will become obsolete in fiscal year (FY) 2023, and Stinger Block I is undergoing a service life extension to extend its end of useful life. The current Stinger inventory is in decline,” the army said. “The [US] Army is conducting a SHORAD study which will inform efforts to modernise and to address emerging threats, which may increase the demand for MANPADS capable missiles.”

According to the RFI, the US Army is currently planning to award a full and open competitive contract no later than FY 2026 for the production of up to 8,000 MANPADS missiles to fill this need.

As noted by the army, in 2016 Congress and military senior leaders, “noting the results of studies and peer threat nations’ aggressions, provided resources and directed the army to aggressively pursue air-defence capabilities to protect maneuvering forces as soon as feasibly possible. This effort serves to meet increasing demand for MANPADS, organisational growth within the Air and Missile Defense (AMD) portfolio, and increasing near-peer threat capability.”

 
Avweek behind paywall article


Hmm. Not paywalled for me this morning. The only really new point of information is that the target set is intended to include Group 2 and 3 UAS, meaning basically the size of Scan Eagle or RQ-7. These are targets Stinger has kind of struggled with.

But I wonder if they aren't looking too literally for a Stinger follow-on.

The way I see it, there are two (or even three) disparate target sets here, which may require many different solutions. One is the really small Group 1 and 2 drones, Scan Eagle and smaller, which are lethal primarily by direct attack. Those need to be dealt with en masse. That requires a solution that can be fielded much more widely than MANPADS. Probably part of the onboard armament for the next IFV (e.g., airburst munitions for cannon) or possibly a C-UAS round that can be fired from infantry grenade launchers.

Another is Group 3-4 UAS and helicopters that provide CAS by lobbing missiles with ranges of at least 8-10 km. I question whether a literal shoulder-fired MANPADS like Stinger can be capable of countering that threat. We may need to admit that the future is at least something a bit larger than Starstreak and RBS-70 (maybe 60 pounds in a launch tube), which require at least a tripod-like firing post and work best from a light vehicle mount.

Fixed-wing attack aircraft are an entirely different problem. They are so likely to employ guided standoff weapons than no even vaguely man-portable weapon will have a chance to engage the aircraft directly. For that, the counters start with AIM-9X equivalents and go up from there.
 
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For the small drone threat, I agree that the grenade-launcher solution is likely the way to go. I would think that a modified Raytheon Pike or similar could do the job initially, though future drones could have threat detection and the ability to take evasive maneuvers or even deploy countermeasures.

 
pr3eak_ZdjPiorun.jpg


As Defence24.pl learns, Mesko Skarżysko has positively concluded negotiations with the US Department of Defense. The US government’s order will eventually include several hundred missile sets. These systems are the most modern very short-range weapons used by the Polish Army. Lightning plays a key role in the air defense system, serving primarily against helicopters, attack aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles.

The conducted negotiations and contracting constitute another element of the export offensive of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa. It is worth emphasizing that the entire implementation of this project, starting from the offer construction stage, through monthly reviews with the Ordering Party, risk management and organization of production processes, is carried out strictly according to the American methodology. Mesko introduces these new processes using the experience of other Group companies, such as WZE, WZU or ZM Tarnów, which have already gone through a similar path. In addition, the missile sets that we export are secured, inter alia, by an authorization system protecting against unauthorized use, under the strict control of the manufacturer. These solutions guarantee the safe use of the sets both by the Polish Armed Forces and after they are handed over to our allies
dr inż. Przemysław Kowalczuk, Member of the Management Board of Mesko SA for Development

The purchase of Pioruns by the United States is an achievement of the Polish arms industry, which will provide equipment to a very demanding user, but also a response to the needs reported by the American army, among others in connection with the threat from Russia. The US Army has to fill the “gap” in the potential of very short-range air defense. During the decades of reigning in the air, the Americans did not attach much importance to this, but the course of recent conflicts, for example in Ukraine, showed that there is a real threat to soldiers USA deployed in the areas of operations by enemy helicopters or unmanned aerial vehicles.

The Americans, to rebuild their capabilities, opted for portable MANPADS sets, due to their flexibility and high efficiency, at a relatively low cost. The first step towards restoring the direct air defense potential of US troops was to increase the use of Stinger kits and their partial modernization. However, it was decided that this was not enough and there was a need for a new generation of MANPADS sets with higher parameters, better suited to operation in the conditions of the modern battlefield. That is why the Americans decided to buy Piorunów. Previously, the Pentagon acquired a number of Grom kits, delivered in 2016 and 2018-19, which could have influenced the decision to acquire a newer Polish system.

Piorun was developed as a result of development work started in 2010 by a consortium consisting of Mesko SA, CRW Telesystem-Mesko and the Military University of Technology. Its main goal was to develop a new MANPADS as a result of the modernization of the existing Grom. The development of the new design was successfully completed after five years in 2015, and its public premiere took place during the 24th International Defense Industry Exhibition MSPO 2016 in Kielce, when it received the President of the Republic of Poland award.

In December of the same year, a contract was concluded with the Ministry of National Defense for the supply of 420 launchers and 1,300 missiles for the Polish Armed Forces with a deadline for completion by 2022. Lightning bolts can be fired from portable launchers, as well as from Pilica sets (used in the Air Force, in air defense units) and Poprad, used in all divisions of the Land Forces.

When developing it, it was decided, first of all, to increase the range and ceiling for the detection and countering of air targets, as well as to extend the capabilities compared to its predecessor, i.e. the Grom. In the starting mechanism, cooperation with targeting devices and a target type switch changing the guidance algorithm were introduced, new observation devices were installed on a rail, a new battery cassette and an authorization system for use were installed.

The homing head has been modernized through the use of a new detection system, new homing algorithms and a proximity sensor. The warhead, the starting engine and the coolant were also modified. As a result of the introduced changes, the sensitivity of detection, the range of detection and destruction of the target as well as resistance to interference have been increased. This system is infrared guided and can fight various types of air targets both day and night at a distance of up to 6500 meters, and at an altitude of 10 to 4000 meters.

 
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The Americans, to rebuild their capabilities, opted for portable MANPADS sets, due to their flexibility and high efficiency, at a relatively low cost. The first step towards restoring the direct air defense potential of US troops was to increase the use of Stinger kits and their partial modernization. However, it was decided that this was not enough and there was a need for a new generation of MANPADS sets with higher parameters, better suited to operation in the conditions of the modern battlefield. That is why the Americans decided to buy Piorunów. Previously, the Pentagon acquired a number of Grom kits, delivered in 2016 and 2018-19, which could have influenced the decision to acquire a newer Polish system.
They make it sound like we're equipping our forward deployed forces with Polish MANPADS, that can't actually be the case?
 
They make it sound like we're equipping our forward deployed forces with Polish MANPADS, that can't actually be the case?
Why not? DoD recently buy Iron Dome from Rafael, for example

today mainstream DoD's contractors do not have similar product on their assembly lines, because during decades in US the MANPADS dev was be marginalized, it got to the point that Army was reduced SHORAD capabilities by 60%

Air supremacy during the Global War on Terrorism, followed by budget constraints, resulted in a nearly 60 percent reduction in short-range air defense (SHORAD) capabilities. There were 24 SHORAD battalions during the Army of Excellence. Currently, there are only nine — seven of which are National Guard.

 
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The Americans, to rebuild their capabilities, opted for portable MANPADS sets, due to their flexibility and high efficiency, at a relatively low cost. The first step towards restoring the direct air defense potential of US troops was to increase the use of Stinger kits and their partial modernization. However, it was decided that this was not enough and there was a need for a new generation of MANPADS sets with higher parameters, better suited to operation in the conditions of the modern battlefield. That is why the Americans decided to buy Piorunów. Previously, the Pentagon acquired a number of Grom kits, delivered in 2016 and 2018-19, which could have influenced the decision to acquire a newer Polish system.
They make it sound like we're equipping our forward deployed forces with Polish MANPADS, that can't actually be the case?

My suspicion is that this is an order for a combination of FME and transfer to allies (e.g., a US transfer to Ukraine, in addition to the direct Polish sale).
 
Why not? DoD recently buy Iron Dome from Rafael, for example
And they can't get rid of them fast enough. It is a problematic interim purchase and an integration and sustainment headache to put it mildly. Foreign systems are fine as an interim option but you're not going to isolate US industry from a 10K missile initial production contract and crush your MANPAD design capability in the process (especially now that you have political capital to fund such a thing).
today mainstream DoD's contractors do not have similar product on their assembly lines, because during decades in US the MANPADS dev was be marginalized, it got to the point that Army was reduced SHORAD capabilities by 60%

And how would you know that? Dangle a carrot of 10K missile production run and see what they can come up with from both enhancements and new clean sheet proposals POV. Its not like the Army prepares these things in a bubble..there is significant collaboration with industry to see where they are before they publish solicitations and request for information..having done this sort of thing myself in a prior life.

Industry has known that a MSHORAD Inc3 is coming right after the Guardian program is sorted out. They've made it known to them that this was the approach and it goes back at least 3-4 years.

They are giving themselves a standard five year OTA (most likely) head start (FY-23 development, with FY-27 production start) which should be more than adequate for this type of weapon given that they've managed to field completely new, and complex systems (like MSHORAD, IFPC etc) in similar or less time.

The Army plans to begin design, development, and test of a replacement missile in FY23 leading to the production of 10,000 M-SHORAD Inc. 3 missiles beginning in FY27. https://sam.gov/opp/476bf5b2da734120a718830b07ece2d7/view

This thing looks ripe for a Raytheon-Lockheed collaboration like the one that exists on the Javelin. Lockheed has done a lot of government, and company funded work around miniaturizing interceptors with the MHTK, and MSHORAD efforts (and a bunch of other company funded efforts) and Raytheon has an established Stinger program and production line and has recently completed the PF integration work.
 
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I'd hope they could further miniaturize APKWS into something launched off compressed air and potent enough to disable drones in the 25-75 pound range. Compressed air can get it a ways before the smokelesd rocket motor ignites, to strike with next to no warning for drone operators. Larger drones are already targetable through MANPADS. Those little suckers are much harder to pick up during the daylight hours because they blend into the background radiation so well. Bonus if the system doubles as a weapon system that can take out light vehicles. They've squeezed laser seekers into .50BMG, they can do it on a rifle grenade-style rocket launcher,

They may even needs a smart helmet that scans the skies looking out for loitering objects. People do not have the stamina to use the Mark I eyeball for that sort of thing.
 
I'd hope they could further miniaturize APKWS into something launched off compressed air and potent enough to disable drones in the 25-75 pound range. Compressed air can get it a ways before the smokelesd rocket motor ignites, to strike with next to no warning for drone operators. Larger drones are already targetable through MANPADS. Those little suckers are much harder to pick up during the daylight hours because they blend into the background radiation so well. Bonus if the system doubles as a weapon system that can take out light vehicles. They've squeezed laser seekers into .50BMG, they can do it on a rifle grenade-style rocket launcher,

They may even needs a smart helmet that scans the skies looking out for loitering objects. People do not have the stamina to use the Mark I eyeball for that sort of thing.

Minus the compressed gas launch, you just described Miniature Hit-to-Kill. A 5-pound rocket that can hit CRM and UAVs


They've even tinkered with a man-portable quad-pack launcher.


My dream solution would be a shoulder launcher that could hold either a single larger MANPADS or a quad of lightweight MHTK-type missiles. Or a multi-round firing post with 3-4 stations for a mix of weapons.
 
Early days, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next system has a gripstock that could fit a tube nearly identical to Stinger's (with a more modern missile inside) as well as other cannisters for other payloads.
 
Early days, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next system has a gripstock that could fit a tube nearly identical to Stinger's (with a more modern missile inside) as well as other cannisters for other payloads.

I know they've also tinkered with a common CLU for Javelin and Stinger. (A modified Javelin CLU, I believe)
 
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Minus the compressed gas launch, you just described Miniature Hit-to-Kill. A 5-pound rocket that can hit CRM and UAVs

The MHTK (and in the Europe the MBDA equivalent) are potentially also perfect as CIWS for warships and other vessels.
 
Maybe a .50cal laser-guided rifle slug would fill the short range niche against drones. I was thinking less of a specialist using it, but that may be impractical.

If you have to aim MHTK then its not a great leap over previous generations for readiness. They need something that be ripple-fired in vertical launches against SDB type weapons. There is no time to point more than one-direction against planned near future peer weapons. What's the point of being locked in the old point and shoot rut?

We need distributed networking of electro-optical and acoustical sensors to geo-locate activity. You can build all sorts of protection into a network, from early warnings to sniper triangulation. You need both situation-awareness and targeting capabilities to grow together.
 
I'd hope they could further miniaturize APKWS into something launched off compressed air and potent enough to disable drones in the 25-75 pound range. Compressed air can get it a ways before the smokelesd rocket motor ignites, to strike with next to no warning for drone operators. Larger drones are already targetable through MANPADS. Those little suckers are much harder to pick up during the daylight hours because they blend into the background radiation so well. Bonus if the system doubles as a weapon system that can take out light vehicles. They've squeezed laser seekers into .50BMG, they can do it on a rifle grenade-style rocket launcher,

They may even needs a smart helmet that scans the skies looking out for loitering objects. People do not have the stamina to use the Mark I eyeball for that sort of thing.

Minus the compressed gas launch, you just described Miniature Hit-to-Kill. A 5-pound rocket that can hit CRM and UAVs

Didn't they cancel that? I mean, why on earth would we need a tiny, inexpensive SAM. /sarc
 
Maybe a .50cal laser-guided rifle slug would fill the short range niche against drones. I was thinking less of a specialist using it, but that may be impractical.

If you have to aim MHTK then its not a great leap over previous generations for readiness. They need something that be ripple-fired in vertical launches against SDB type weapons. There is no time to point more than one-direction against planned near future peer weapons. What's the point of being locked in the old point and shoot rut?

We need distributed networking of electro-optical and acoustical sensors to geo-locate activity. You can build all sorts of protection into a network, from early warnings to sniper triangulation. You need both situation-awareness and targeting capabilities to grow together.
Another good weapon might be something like the XM25 air burst Grenade launcher.

Basically make it a man portable flak gun that good against inflanty in cover.

Be useful against the likes of the Quadcopter drones.
 
I'd hope they could further miniaturize APKWS into something launched off compressed air and potent enough to disable drones in the 25-75 pound range. Compressed air can get it a ways before the smokelesd rocket motor ignites, to strike with next to no warning for drone operators. Larger drones are already targetable through MANPADS. Those little suckers are much harder to pick up during the daylight hours because they blend into the background radiation so well. Bonus if the system doubles as a weapon system that can take out light vehicles. They've squeezed laser seekers into .50BMG, they can do it on a rifle grenade-style rocket launcher,

They may even needs a smart helmet that scans the skies looking out for loitering objects. People do not have the stamina to use the Mark I eyeball for that sort of thing.

Minus the compressed gas launch, you just described Miniature Hit-to-Kill. A 5-pound rocket that can hit CRM and UAVs

Didn't they cancel that? I mean, why on earth would we need a tiny, inexpensive SAM. /sarc

Just a question related to this speculative sidebar - does anyone know of attempts to create larger MANPADS?

Hypothetically, could one not create a LOAL system cued by an infantry controlled director at some distance from the launcher? Doing so could allow a vertical launch removing the need for it to be shoulder held, which would in turn allow assembling of a two-stage system using parts carried by two infantrymen. So, it'd be a team of at least three people (rather than the standard two). That would allow pushing the missile weight above 25-30kg... some of that would be lost in requiring some energy to suspend prior to turning, but not much... so one could significantly expand the envelop with such an approach. It'd also require more set-up - but probably less than three minutes to deploy.
 
Just a question related to this speculative sidebar - does anyone know of attempts to create larger MANPADS?

Hypothetically, could one not create a LOAL system cued by an infantry controlled director at some distance from the launcher? Doing so could allow a vertical launch removing the need for it to be shoulder held, which would in turn allow assembling of a two-stage system using parts carried by two infantrymen. So, it'd be a team of at least three people (rather than the standard two). That would allow pushing the missile weight above 25-30kg... some of that would be lost in requiring some energy to suspend prior to turning, but not much... so one could significantly expand the envelop with such an approach. It'd also require more set-up - but probably less than three minutes to deploy.
Something like the "358" ?
We finally get to see a picture of the entire fully assembled weapon complete with forward control surfaces.
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Foreign systems are fine as an interim option but you're not going to isolate US industry from a 10K missile initial production contract and crush your MANPAD design capability in the process
Oh is it now.....
All should remember this line in future debates about why other countries might want to develop their own instead of 'foreign' options.
 

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