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Fokker Civil Projects

hesham

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From Czech National Technic Museum,

I found those unknown Projects for Fokker,F.XXXIX,F.XXXXII & F.XXXXXVII,or F.39,
F.42 & F.57
,does anyone hear about them ?.
 

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Apophenia

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I found those unknown Projects for Fokker,F.XXXIX,F.XXXXII & F.XXXXXVII,or F.39,
F.42 & F.57
,does anyone hear about them ?.
They likely never existed as pre-1945 designs. By 1935, Fokker was abandoning its chronological sequence of 'F' designations in favour of designations based on seat numbers - beginning with the F.XXXVI (F.36) airliner. (Around the same time, the shift from Roman to Arabic numerals in Fokker marketing materials began in earnest.)

Since then, many people have tried to 'rationalize' those 'F' series designations under the misapprehension that Fokker was still following a numerical sequence.
 

hesham

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Yes my dear Apophenia,

but we can consider them unknown Projects ?.
 

Apophenia

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I would say not. We can consider these as possible designations for potential projects. We do not know for sure that 'F.39', 'F.42', or 'F.57' represent actual projects.
 

Apophenia

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Cheers lark! I had the F.39 (and the proposed twin-engined F.139 derivative) in my Fokker Alpha-Numeric list but assumed that they were distinct Avia designations.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Lark,

and I know the F.39 as Avia with co-operated with Fokker,but I think maybe it was anther concept ?.
 

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Jemiba

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....,but I think maybe it was anther concept ?.
Translation of the attached article via online translator and some corrections:

"In addition to the series of four aircraft for the Air Force, Avia built two more
F-39 export aircraft in the bomber version (maiden flight 2nd of January 1932),
but fitted with the French Gnome-Rhône "Jupiter" engines of 412 kW (560 hp).
They were purchased by the Yugoslav Air Force, for which internal equipment
was also assembled from products of foreign companies, according to
Yugoslavian needs. Production sublicence was also sold to Yugoslavia, however,
no aircraft of that type were built there."

So, no clue to another use of this designation here, I think.
 

hesham

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In Luchtvaartkennis magazine,

there was a twin engined transport monoplane Project,appeared before F.X,powered by two Wright
Cyclone 1820 engines ?,unknown designation for it ?.
 

Apophenia

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... there was a twin engined transport monoplane Project,appeared before F.X,powered by two Wright Cyclone 1820 engines ?,unknown designation for it ?.
That is odd. The R-1820 didn't exist when the Fokker F.X first flew. Perhaps Luchtvaartkennis is getting their Cyclones confused and meant the R-1750 (or even the earlier, 1654 cid Wright P-2 9-cylinder radial)?
 

hesham

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Dear Apophenia,

maybe it was coming after,frankly I don't know its date ?.
 

hesham

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From Lucktvaartkennis magazine,

there was a Fokker F.VIII transport airplane Project version,but has a sesquiplane configuration,
never built.
 

Apophenia

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... there was a Fokker F.VIII transport airplane Project version,but has a sesquiplane configuration, never built.
A quibbling difference ... the 1922 sesquiplane project wasn't an "F.VIII transport airplane Project version". The built F.VIII didn't exist until 1927.

The sesquiplane F.VIII was a variation on the one-off, 1921 F.V convertible monoplane/biplane - intending to re-use the same fuselage design but with different wings.
 

hesham

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No dear Apophenia,

I am sure it was called F.VIII,but the beginning of this designation was in 1924/25.
 

Apophenia

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No dear Apophenia,

I am sure it was called F.VIII,but the beginning of this designation was in 1924/25.
Okay. We know for sure that there was a 1922 F.VIII project and that Reinhold Platz launched into the built F.VIII design (as a trimotor) in 1926. No reason to assume that this designation couldn't have been recycled more than once ...

My quibble was with the "F.VIII transport airplane Project version". Possibly I'm being pedantic but, to me, that implied a projected variant of the built F.VIII (or its 1926 design phase).
 

hesham

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From Lucktvaartkennis magazine,

there was anther Project from Fokker F.XVII,as a mailplane.
 

hesham

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In many sources,

the Fokker F.56 had two or more different shape,with several kind of engines,and it began in 1935,
passing 1936 and 1937 ?.
 

hesham

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Hi,

there was also Fokker F.60 or F.63 ?,was mentioned in this source.
 

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Aubi

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Fokker 60 was stretched variant of Fokker 50, which in turn was Fokker F27 Friendship with Pratt & Whittney turboprops instead of Rolls-Royce Dart.
 

hesham

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Fokker 60 was stretched variant of Fokker 50, which in turn was Fokker F27 Friendship with Pratt & Whittney turboprops instead of Rolls-Royce Dart.
Of course I know that dear Aubi,

but that was a Project pre-1945,it was not related to this one at all.
 

Apophenia

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... but that was a Project pre-1945,it was not related to this one at all.
The Fokker F.60 project was for a transatlantic airliner, designation based upon 60 passenger payload. Never heard of an .F.63'.
 

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Okay. I assumed it's related to the picture on the cover.
Anyway, i found an interresting books, Fokker Commercial Aircraft: From the F.I. of 1918 up to the Fokker 100 of Today.
F.56 was according to the book a 1935 project of 56-seat mid-wing passenger plane with two decks and four 1000 hp engines. F.60 or F.63 are not mentioned.
 

hesham

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OK my dear Aubi,

and maybe there was a version Project,could accommodated 63 passenger,so called F.63,all are mentioned
in the book.
 

hesham

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In Luchtvaartkennis magazine,

there was Fokker F.XX-B Project,also intended for transport duty,no more details are known.
 

hesham

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Also from this source,

there was anther F.XXIII in 1937 (not 1935),but were them the same one or not ?.
 

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lark

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Hesham.

The book of which the cover is shown was published in 1963 and written
by the late Hugo Hooftman, aviation writer and publisher of Cockpit , a Dutch aviation mag.
( I obtained the book when I was 18 ...ahem :cool: )

A few captions in de book are incorrect , especially in the chapter abour te Fokker 4-engined designs.
The drawings (or the captions) of the F.XXII and F.XXXVI are wrong. The schetch of the 180 is not the F.180 but ontwerp 180.
The so called F.60 or F.63 are not mentioned in the excellent new book 'The Fokker fours' devoted to all Fokker 4 engined
aircraft constructed and many projected.
 
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hesham

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OK my dear Lark,

and I just displayed what was mentioned in this book,and for F.60,I will ask in Dutch forum about
it,maybe there was any reliable Info about it and to confirm,also the F.XX Bomber,there was a drawing
to it,maybe in a museum or Fokker company as I know,as F.XXXVI Bomber.
 

lark

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Fokker F.40 also mentioned as F.XL

Planned 1935 variant of the F.36/37 offered by Fokker to the KLM.
Several designs planned under this designation
4-engined civil liner as high- mid- or low wing aircraft for 40 passengers, two tailfins.
A twinboom Burnelli wing type with accomodation in the wing was also on the drawing board.

Offer not taken up by KLM.

Still searching for a good illustration...

Source. Luchtvaartkennis 2/2008/Air Britain Netherlands branch-Fred Gerdessen.
The Fokker Fours , new book by Rob J.M.Mulder.
,
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Lark,

and also as I know,the F.24 was designed in two or more concepts with different engines.
 
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