Focke Wulf Fw 191

[hesham]

Hi,


here is also a drawing for Bauschreibung Nr.230 file about Focke Wulf FW.191,and they
displayed this drawing which was called P.1015002-14.

 

[Stargazer]

Please mention the source, on the one hand to allow others to have a look at them, too, and on
the other hand just for fairness with regards to the original source/publisher.

hesham, I realize that you did not care to reply to Jemiba's request and I can only agree with him that when posting that amount of high quality company archives. Giving the title of the original company brochure as "your source" is certainly not enough since I'm sure you didn't fly to Germany to compile library volumes...
So even if you don't want (or can't) provide a web link, a mention of the source book you found them is in order! Especially from someone who very often asks for the sources...

 

[hesham]

Stargazer,


I sent the first page from the source,and that source was called;
FW 191 Baubeschreibung Nr.230 of 1940

 

[hesham]

Hi,


from the book; Die Deutsche Luftruestung part II,here is the Focke Wulf FW.191C
four engined project drawing.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is an artist drawing to FW.191.

 

[blackkite]

Re: Focke-Wulf Fw 191

Hi! Fw191.
Rearward armaments were very powerful, but no gunner at the tail.

 

[Vladimir]

Thanks, blackkite

 

[hesham]

Why open new thread although we have this;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9086.0.html

 

[blackkite]

Re: Focke-Wulf Fw 191

Oh I search "Focke Wolf" not "Focke-Wolf". ;D
I hope to move my post to following topic if my post have some value.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9086.0.html

 

[Arjen]

Focke-Wulf, not not Focke-Wolf. Mods!

 

[blackkite]

Re: Focke-Wulf Fw 191

Oh Focke-Wulf!! Thanks a lot.
Wolf is a wild animal. ;D

 

[blackkite]

Re: Focke-Wulf Fw 191

Hi cockpit pictures.

 

[Arjen]

Several thoughts:
- this thread's title is a near duplicate of this one: Various Focke-Wulf projects
- proper spelling of the company name should be Focke-Wulf, including the hyphen, to facilitate forum searches
- this thread, so far, deals only with the Fw 191 - not with other types

It has been pointed out many times before on this forum catch-all-threads titled 'Various/unknown/lesser known -whatever-' do not make for easy retrieval of posted data.

I would suggest 'Focke-Wulf Fw 191' as a new thread title, if this thread is not to be merged with the earlier thread.

Topic renamed and posts from other thread added, thanks for the clue

 

[blackkite]

Re: Focke-Wulf Fw 191

Tnanks my friends.
I'm sorry to trouble you so much.
Wiki says that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_191
"General characteristics(FW191 V6, as designed)
Length: 18.45 m (60 ft 6 in)
Wingspan: 25 m (82 ft)
Height: 4.80 m (15 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 70.5 m² (759 ft²)
Empty weight: 11,970 kg (26,389 lb)
Loaded weight: 19,575 kg (43,155 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Junkers Jumo 222 liquid-cooled engines, 1,618 kW (2,200 PS) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 620 km/h @ 6,350 m (385 mph @ 20,800 ft)
Range: 3,600 km (2,237 mi)
Service ceiling: 9,700 m (31,824 ft)
Rate of climb: 6.1 m/s (1,200 ft/min)
Wing loading: 278 kg/m² (57 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 170 W/kg (0.10 hp/lb)
Armament
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 81 machine guns in chin turret
2 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 81 machine guns in remote-controlled turret at rear of each engine nacelle
1 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon and 2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns in dorsal turret
1 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon and 2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns in ventral turret
4,200 kg (9,240 lb) of bombs (Two torpedoes could also be carried internally)"

 

[blackkite]

Wiki abstruct
Design and development
(1)In July 1939, the RLM issued a specification for a high-performance medium bomber (the "Bomber B" program). It was to have a maximum speed of 600 km/h (370 mph) and be able to carry a bomb load of 4,000 kg (8,820 lb) to any part of Britain from bases in France or Norway.
(2)Bomber B bomber was to have a pressurized crew compartment, remotely controlled armament, and was to utilize two of the new 2,500 PS (2,466 hp, 1,839 kW) class of engines then being developed (Jumo 222 or Daimler Benz DB 604).
(3)The Arado Ar E340 was eliminated. The Dornier Do 317 was put on a low-priority development contract; and the Junkers Ju 288 and Focke Wulf Fw 191 were chosen for full development.
(4)An interesting feature was the inclusion of the Multhopp-Klappe, an ingenious form of combined landing flap and dive brake, which was developed by Hans Multhopp.
(5)A crew of four sat in the pressurized cockpit, and a large Plexiglas dome was provided for the navigator; the radio operator could also use this dome to aim the remotely controlled rear guns.
(6)The proposed operational armament consisted of one 20 mm MG 151 cannon in a chin turret, twin 20 mm MG 151 in a remotely controlled dorsal turret, twin 20 mm MG 151 in a remotely controlled ventral turret, a tail turret with one or two machine guns and remotely controlled weapons in the rear of the engine nacelles. However, different combinations were mounted in the prototype aircraft.
(7)Sighting stations were provided above the crew compartment, as well as at the ends of the aforementioned Bola beneath the nose.
(8)The aircraft had an internal bomb bay. In addition, bombs or torpedoes could be carried on external racks between the fuselage and the engine nacelles.
Failure and End of Program
(1)Problems arose almost immediately when the Jumo 222 engines were not ready in time for the first flight tests, so a pair of 1,560 PS (1,539 hp, 1,147 kW) BMW 801A radial engines were fitted. This made the Fw 191 V1 seriously underpowered. Another problem arose with the RLM's insistence that all systems that would normally be hydraulic or mechanically activated should be operated by electric motors.
(2)It is said that the intention to use electric power for almost all of the aircraft's auxiliary systems(fly by wire!!?) (also a fact for the successful Fw 190 fighter), requiring the installation of a large number of electric motors and wiring led to the nickname for the Fw 191 of "Das fliegende Kraftwerk" (the flying powerstation((Same as Boeing787!). This also had the detrimental effect of adding even more weight to the overburdened airframe, plus there was also the danger of a single enemy bullet putting every system out of action if the generator was hit.
(3)Dipl. Ing Melhorn took the Fw 191 V1 on its maiden flight early in 1942, with immediate problems arising from the lower rated engines not providing enough power, as was anticipated.
(4)One surprising problem that was encountered were the Multhopp-Klappe, which presented severe flutter problems when extended, and pointed to the need for a redesign. At this point, only dummy gun installations were fitted and no bomb load was carried. After completing ten test flights, the Fw 191 V1 was joined by the similar V2, but only a total of ten hours of test flight time was logged.
(5)The 2,500 PS (2,466 hp, 1,839 kW) Junkers Jumo 222 engines which would have powered the Fw 191 proved troublesome. In total only three prototype aircraft, V1, V2 & V6, were built. The project was crippled by engine problems and an extensive use of electrical motor-driven systems.
(6)At this point, the RLM allowed the redesign and removal of the electric motors (to be replaced by the standard hydraulics), so the Fw 191 V3, V4 and V5 were abandoned. The Fw 191 V6 was then modified to the new design, and also a pair of specially prepared Jumo 222 engines were fitted that developed 2,200 PS (2,170 hp, 1,618 kW) for takeoff. The first flight of the new Fw 191 took place in December 1942 with Flugkapitän Hans Sander at the controls. Although the V6 flew better, the Jumo 222 were still not producing their design power, and the whole Jumo 222 development prospect was looking bad due to the shortage of special metals for it. The Fw 191 V6 was to have been the production prototype for the Fw 191A series.
(7)Due to the German aviation engine industry having ongoing problems in producing powerplant designs capable of output levels matching or exceeding the 1,500 kW (2,000 PS) figure throughout the entirety of the war years, that had any demonstrable level of combat-ready reliability, the Jumo 222 engines were having a lot of teething problems, and the Daimler Benz DB 604 had already been abandoned, a new proposal was put forth for the Fw 191B series.
(8)The V7 through V12 machines were abandoned in favor of using the Fw 191 V13 to install a pair of Daimler Benz DB 606 or 610 "power system" engines, which were basically coupled pairs of either DB 601 or 605 12-cylinder engines. Their lower power-to-weight ratio, however, from their 1.5 tonne weight apiece for each "power system", meant that the armament and payload would have to be reduced. It had already been decided to delete the engine nacelle gun turrets, and to make the rest manually operated. Five more prototypes were planned with the new engine arrangement, V14 through V18, but none were ever built, possibly from the August 1942 condemnation by Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring of the coupled "power system" DB 606 and 610 powerplants as "welded-together engines", in regards to their being the primary cause of the unending series of powerplant problems in their primary use, as the engines on Heinkel's He 177A Greif, Germany's only production heavy bomber of World War II.
(9)One final attempt was made to save the Fw 191 program, this time the Fw 191C was proposed as a four engined aircraft, using either the 1,340 PS (1,322 hp, 986 kW) Jumo 211F, the 1,350 PS (1,332 hp, 993 kW) DB 601E, the 1,475 PS (1,455 hp, 1,085 kW) DB 605A or similar rated DB 628 engines. Also, the cabin would be unpressurized and the guns manually operated, with a rear step in the bottom of the deepened fuselage — in the manner of the near-ubiquitous Bola gondola used by the majority of German bombers for ventral defense under the nose — being provided for the gunner.
(10)However, at this time, the whole "Bomber B" program had been canceled, due mainly to no engines of the 2,500 PS class being available, which was one of the primary requirements in the "Bomber B" program. Although the Fw 191 will be remembered as a failure, the air frame and overall design eventually proved themselves to be sound; only the underpowered engines and insistence on electric motors to operate all the systems eventually doomed the aircraft. All in all, there were only three Fw 191s ever built (V1, V2 and V6), and no examples of the Fw 191B or C ever advanced past the design stage. The project was eventually scrapped.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Jumo222 and DB604.

 

[lucamax]

Dear Friends,
here I post a model of the Fw 191 (source: War Planes of the Second World War, Green, Vol 9) and a 3-view of the Fw 191C (Source, Die Deutsche Luftrustung 1933 - 1945, Nowarra, Vol. 2).
Regards.

 

[newsdeskdan]

From the brochure.

 

[hesham]

From the brochure.

Wow,very nice my dear Dan.

 

[hesham]

here is also a drawing for Bauschreibung Nr.230 file about Focke Wulf FW.191,and they
displayed this drawing which was called P.1015002-14.

From the same source.

 

[hesham]

Another caption from my files,

In mid-1939, the Technische Amt des RLM (Technical Office of the Reich Air Ministry) developed initial tactical and technical assumptions for a new category of bomber aircraft - medium bombers with long range and payload. The new aircraft was to succeed the standard Luftwaffe bombers such as the Heinkel He 111 and Junkers Ju 88. Both types had too small a payload to perform long-range flights with a maximum bomb load, and increasing the amount of fuel drastically reduced the combat payload of these aircraft.

Unlike the long-range heavy bombers being developed abroad at the time, Germany stubbornly stuck to the proven concept of a twin-engine bomber. The Technical Office demanded a maximum speed of 600 km/h for the new aircraft with a take-off weight of around 20,000 kg, the ability to perform diving attacks, a payload of 4,000 kg of bombs and a range of 3,600 km. Such a range would allow for practically covering the entire territory of the British Isles and part of the North Atlantic. The conditions formulated in the requirements also spoke of remotely (remotely) controlled gun positions and a pressurized cabin for the crew, so that it would be possible to reach an operational ceiling higher than the range of effective fire of ground anti-aircraft artillery. Initially, the new bomber was to be powered by powerful Daimler-Benz DB 604 or Junkers Jumo 222 engines - still under development at that time. Both types were 24-cylinder in-line units, liquid-cooled, with a designed power of about 1,470 kW (2,000 hp), with the DB 604 having cylinders in an X arrangement, while the Jumo 222 had 6 rows of 4 cylinders, arranged radially around a common crankcase. However, in 1942, further development of the DB 604 engine was suspended, even though its prototypes achieved a power of 1911 kW (2600 hp) on the test bench. Thus, only the Junkers engine remained available, although it was never brought to a state of real technical maturity.

The Technical Office forwarded the tactical and technical conditions of the new bomber - codenamed Bomber B (bomber B) - to four interested aircraft manufacturers: Arado, Dornier, Focke-Wulf and Junkers. Arado soon presented the Ar 340 project, based on the earlier development of the E 500, and even before the outbreak of World War II made a mock-up of the new aircraft. It had a very unconventional layout with a central fuselage gondola and two tail booms supporting the empennage. This achieved a free field of fire from the gunner's position located at the end of the fuselage gondola. Despite promising performance, the Ar 340 project was not further developed and was put "on the shelf". Dornier developed a preliminary design designated Do 317, but gave greater priority - by order of the RLM - to the development of the Do 217P high-altitude bomber. Thus, the winners of the first stage of the competition were the Focke-Wulf Fw 191 and Junkers Ju 288 projects. In the following years, many different prototypes of both aircraft were built, which were subjected to intensive comparative tests, but ultimately neither the Fw 191 nor the Ju 288 made it beyond the experimental stage. The Junkers machine had the greatest chance of series production, but despite numerous improvements and excellent flight characteristics, it too did not reach the level qualifying for line service.

 

[hesham]

And,

Work on the technical design of the Fw 191 aircraft began at the Focke-Wulf factory in late 1940, in a design team led by engineer E. Kosel. The bomber was designed as an elegant, twin-engine, high-wing, cantilever monoplane with a retractable undercarriage, of all-metal construction. The four-person crew sat in a common pressurized cabin at the front of the fuselage, from where they controlled, among other things, the defensive armament placed in remotely controlled rotating gun turrets. The turrets were planned to be placed above and below the fuselage, in the front of the fuselage and in the rear parts of the engine nacelles. Electric motors were used to drive all moving parts of the aircraft - including the undercarriage, flaps, rudders and gun turrets - instead of classic mechanical or hydraulic systems, which - contrary to the designers' opinion - was forced by the Forschungsabteilung des RLM (Reich Aviation Ministry Development Department). This solution was, however, very unreliable, susceptible to damage, prone to breakdowns and caused major problems in operation and maintenance, and also increased the weight of the structure (electric generators, engines, kilometers of cables). Due to the large number of these engines and other electrical installations, the aircraft was even jokingly called das fliegende Kraftwerk, or "flying power plant". Another interesting design solution used in the Fw 191 were special flaps designed by engineer Hans Multhopp (so-called Multhopp-Klappen), placed between the fuselage and the engine nacelles (one on each wing) and between the engine nacelles and ailerons (three on each wing). They served as ordinary landing flaps, and in diving flight as aerodynamic brakes. These flaps also caused a lot of trouble for the designers, because extending them in flight disturbed the stability of the aircraft and caused very dangerous vibrations. After abandoning work on the DB 604 engine, the Fw 191 designers decided to use Jumo 222 engines to power the bomber, but their development was significantly delayed. As a result, the first prototype Fw 191V1, flown in the spring of 1942 by test pilot Mehlhorn, and the second Fw 191V2, flown shortly afterwards, were powered by substitute 14-cylinder radial engines in a double radial configuration, air-cooled, type BMW 801MA with a maximum take-off power of 1,176 kW (1,600 hp) each and a nominal power of 1,015 kW (1,380 hp). However, these engines provided too little power and the prototypes - despite not having installed armament yet, but only its mock-ups, which reduced the take-off weight - had performance worse than expected. Both machines flew a total of just 10 hours in test flights, during which problems with the Multhopp flaps, electrical installation and insufficient engine power were revealed.
In the meantime, the factory was working on three more prototypes, designated
Fw 191V3 to V5. However, due to the lack of Jumo 222 engines, they were not completed and did not take part in the flight test program. A proposal to temporarily use competitive 24-cylinder in-line engines such as Daimler-Benz DB 606 or DB 610 was also considered, but this idea was eventually abandoned. It was not until late 1942 that Focke-Wulf received the first two pre-production Jumo 222 engines from the Junkers engine factory, thanks to which they could be tested in flight on the Fw 191 aircraft. For this purpose, the sixth prototype Fw 191V6 was built, which was the model for the planned series version of the Fw 191A, in which additionally - after strenuous efforts by the designers in the RLM authorities - the extensive electrical installation was abandoned in favor of proven and reliable hydraulic systems. The first flight of the Fw 191V6 prototype was carried out in the spring of 1943 in Delmenhorst by the head of the test pilots of the Focke-Wulf Flugkapitän plant, Hans Sander. This prototype also had only mock-ups of the armament installed, but its performance did not improve radically. However, further test flights were not continued, because at that time the RLM finally gave up on the development of the "B bomber". The Fw 191V6 made only one more flight - on 26 July 1943 it flew from Delmenhorst to the flight test centre in Wenzendorf.

The deteriorating strategic and economic situation in Germany and the shortage of raw materials meant that the series production of the Junkers Jumo 222 engines was in question. Daimler-Benz engines of the DB 605L, DB 614 and DB 628 types were also only in the initial phase of development and development. In this situation, the Focke-Wulf plant - wanting to save its project - proposed the development of a version of the Fw 191B, with slightly changed armament (among other things, the gun turrets in the engine nacelles were abandoned, and a rear gun position was added in the aircraft's tail) and powered by Daimler-Benz DB 606 or DB 610 engines. In order to reduce the weight of the structure, the pressurized installation in the cabin was also abandoned. Unfortunately, the DB 606 and DB 610 engines themselves - which were basically a combination of two DB 603 and DB 605 engines respectively, driving a common propeller shaft - although more easily available and providing greater power - were much heavier than the Jumo 222. The RLM did not accept the Fw 191B project for implementation.

On paper, there was also another development variant of the Fw 191, designated Fw 191C (its other unofficial designations were Fw 391 or Fw 491). This time, it was to be a four-engine machine, for which the existing and proven Junkers Jumo 211F, Daimler-Benz DB 601E, DB 605A or new DB 628 engines were considered. In this version, not only the pressurized cabin was abandoned, but also the remotely controlled gun turrets. The defensive armament was to be operated manually and placed in two turrets on the back of the fuselage (front and rear) and two gun positions under the fuselage (front and rear). The aircraft was to have an enlarged cross-section of the fuselage in the front and middle parts, and thus an enlarged bomb bay. The bomb load capacity was also to be greater. However, at the end of 1943, the Reichsluftfahrtministerium finally cancelled further development of the Fw 191, as well as the two remaining designs created under the Bomber B programme, i.e. the Junkers Ju 288 and the Dornier Do 317.