F-15 Silent Eagle

Abraham Gubler said:
sferrin said:
I'm looking forward to when dawns on some that for the F-15SE to actually get anywhere meaningful they're going to have to hang external tanks on it (destroying much of what they saved in the RCS dept.) because the CFTs no longer hold fuel but AAMs and their launch mechanisms. ;D

I don’t know where you got this conclusion from. The CFTs are effectively drag neutral in subsonic flight for an F-15. So an F-15SE will have the same mission radius for cruise and loiter flying as an F-15C, which isn’t exactly known as a short legged bird. That’s >1,000 NM combat radius with ~14,000 lbs of internal fuel (no CFTs).

sferrin said:
The problem in the F-15's case is that it's got relatively little internal fuel. Even less than the Super Hornet (and it has much more powerful engines drinking the lower amount of internal fuel). That's one of the reasons the Eagle got CFTs so early. They were talking about them even before the original Strike Eagle demonstrator in the early 80s came along.


1000 NM combat radius on 14,000lb of fuel huh? ::)
Abraham Gubler said:
Again it should be able to carry them and launch them but it’s going to be a lot draggier (so more thrust needed) than an F-15C with conformal carriage of AIM-120.

Good thing the current versions use either the -229 or the F110.
Report from Aviation Week from the Farnborough International Airshow 2010 concerning Boeing F-15 Silent Eagle.

Video of Boeing F-15 Silent Eagle missile firing test presentation at Farnborough International Airshow 2010 by dewline.

Boeing has released video of the F-15 Silent Eagle missile firing test on 14 July at Point Mugu, California. I videotaped the press conference at the Farnborough air show a week later, with Boeing Global Strike Systems VP and General Manager Shelley Lavender.

Video of Boeing F-15 Silent Eagle missile test uploaded by theworacle.

Boeing video on the July 14 launch of an AIM-120 AMRAAM test missile from a prototype confromal weapons bay (CWB) on testbed aircraft F-15E1. The CWB, which allows bombs and missiles to be carried internally, is a key feature of the stealthier F-15SE Silent Eagle proposed by Boeing.

compton_effect said:
Its quite interesting all the ideas they had for the conformal packs when it was first designed.
Strangely enough - no internal weapons bays though.
Nice find.

At the time, the primary A2A weapons were the AIM-9L and AIM-7F. Neither cold even come close to fit in the CFTs. AMRAAM was still in testing but it was the A model which also was too big to fit.

You could probably fit a few Mk-82 dumb bombs, but compared to the amount carried externally, it makes no sense.

Also, LO coatings were in their infancy in the time, in no way ready for deployment on a day fighter. Nobody had any proof of the operational value of a stealthy A2A fighter anyway and those that had idea were running a program called ATF.
photo (с) Boeing

wonder how much tail surfaces enjoy missile flumes


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Oh, no! Your stabilizers all burnt and junk. Did I do that? Here, let me get my cellular out, call you a wrecker. Oh, shoot. I got no phone. Cuz I'm a AIM-120 AMRAAM... soooo... k'bye!
wow...that DOES look a little bit uncomfortable...
Either it's not a big deal or some weapon separation analyst screwed the pooch. Either way I'm surprised.
If it does turn out to be a problem, there are mechanical ways of increasing weapon separation. Does anyone know what the current means are (like a swing arm, trapeze, or parallel arms a la F-22)?
I'm sure the tail will survive as long as you don't go shooting 10 AMRAAMs a day. But it would severely limit the flight attitude for launch. No pulling on the stick when you shoot an AMRAAM because the exhaust over the elevator could do unexpected things. Which is quite a reasonable tactical limitation.
If is really an issue, perhaps they can come up with a plume deflector similar to the one used on the AIM-9 side bay launchers of the F-22.

Here's a close-up prior to ignition.



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That doesn't look too different from what you'd get firing an AIM-120 from one of the wing hardpoints. Since that seems to work fine, I doubt this is a problem.
SOC said:
That doesn't look too different from what you'd get firing an AIM-120 from one of the wing hardpoints. Since that seems to work fine, I doubt this is a problem.
I don't believe it is a problem. The flames are only instantaneous anyhoo...

Scroll down to the third page of this. There's a shiny graphic showing the AMRAAM carriage on the Silent Eagle. Cool, huh?
Hi XP-67 -

Do you have that PDF available you could post as the original source is no longer there? Thanks in advance!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Try this on for size. Save now and forever hold your peace. ;) Cheers!


There's also this slideshow from a while back:
Strangely, both Silent Eagle and HG F-16s do not include any obvious treatment for the engine faces or inlet cavities. "Radar blockers" are absent.
Not back. They are still in plan, however they require additional structural and flight software changes, so they are part of the later development process.
I don't think this has been posted here yet. From the DEW Line, via Strategypage:

When I first saw that promotional video back at the DEW line blog I first thought, "That music sucks." Then again, I guess it does earn points for originality considering Lockheed Martin and everyone else under the sun uses stock rock music for their product advertisements.
AAAdrone said:
When I first saw that promotional video back at the DEW line blog I first thought, "That music sucks." Then again, I guess it does earn points for originality considering Lockheed Martin and everyone else under the sun uses stock rock music for their product advertisements.

It's not original. It's the most overused, cliched, piece of music used on military videos. It was original about ten years ago (on a B-1B video).
AAAdrone said:
I stand corrected....

Sorry for the strong response. I just went to watch that video the other day and got about three notes in and thought, "WTF? Again?" ;)
SEOUL AIR SHOW: Boeing sexes up F-15 Silent Eagle for ROKAF
Stephen Trimble
on October 18, 2011 7:43 PM

You're the marketing guy. It's between your aircraft, the Boeing F-15 Silent Eagle, and the Lockheed Martin F-35. The latter is the latest fifth-generation fighter to hit the market and the former is the last and, perhaps, ultimate expression of a 40-year-old fighter series. You fear the Republic of Korea Air Force really wants the shiniest, newest product. What do you do?

You roll out a new paint job and simulate blowing stuff up in North Korea.



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Triton, we've seen all that in October already. Check previous posts.
Budget realities are going to drive even more updated f-15s and even a silent falcon? maybe a new wing and new inlet and still much cheaper than an f-35 or f-22.

Very big market.
Someone may need to get their act together; Via War Is Boring: Boeing backs away from F-15 Silent Eagle development, ROK left hanging (Asia Security Watch)

The South Korean military had hoped to rely on the US for procuring fighters under their FX-III plan, needing a modern semi-stealth fighter to keep their forces battle ready in this millennium. Boeing’s propossed F-15 Silent Eagle (F-15 SE) was meant to fill that void with modern sensor arrays, canted tails, and internal weapons bays.

Unfortunately, it looks likely that Boeing will fail the South Koreans in meeting their air superiority needs, in what appears a design process more akin to Dunder Mifflin/Wernham Hogg-esque business model:

Industry insiders raised questions Wednesday about whether U.S. aerospace giant Boeing will fulfill its pledge to offer F-15 Silent Eagles (F-15 SEs) with an internal weapons bay and twin canted tails, two of the core technologies for stealth jets, to Seoul.

A source familiar with Boeing’s plan to modify its F-15s said little progress has been made in the making of the F-15SE, especially in the development of its conformal weapons bay (CWB), which allows the aircraft to carry weapons internally.

“Only 10 percent of work has been completed for the research and development of the F-15SE’s conformal weapons bay,” the informed industry source said.

The Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has been carrying out research and development of the F-15 SE’s internal weapons bay, a crucial stealth feature, since signing a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Boeing in 2010.

The CWB, a common characteristic of aircraft with low visibility, was a compulsory requirement to enter Korea’s FX-III bid, the country’s third and last phase of a program to procure advanced jets.

Seoul, however, has decided to remove the prerequisite to allow more companies to enter the competition, according to Noh Dae-lae, the commissioner of the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA).

Boeing, which has sold 61 F-15Ks to Korea since 2002, pledged to develop the F-15SE for international customers, including Seoul, by upgrading its F-15 Strike Eagle upon unveiling its concept for the semi-stealth aircraft in March 2009.

An industry source said Beoing has yet to determine whether to push the development of 15-degree outward-canted V-tails, which it proposed to include when the company first announced the F-15SE.

He said Boeing is expected to propose canted vertical tails as an upgrade option to Korea.

Boeing sought to cant the vertical tails of the F-15 outward to reduce the combat aircraft’s radar signature and increase aerodynamic efficiency, but announced it would suspend the development of the new feature in 2010.

Other industry officials noted that it will be physically impossible for Boeing to complete the development of the CWB and canted tails by the end of October this year when Seoul plans to finalize the deal after three to four months of evaluations and negotiations. “Boeing will most likely change their offer. They won’t offer the Silent Eagle,” a senior official of Lockheed Martin, which is competing with Boeing and the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company (EADS) for the FX-III bid, said asking for anonymity.

“They are going to offer the F-15K because that’s the only plane they can deliver by 2016.”

DAPA officials warned that Boeing may enter the FX-III race after minor upgrades to the F-15K, such as installing Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars, but the airplane’s stealth capability remains a crucial factor in deciding which new fighter jets will be purchased.

“Boeing may compete in the FX-III race without having to complete its development of the CWB or canted vertical tails, but it should bear in mind that Korea is eyeing to acquire advanced jets, rather than outdated ones,” a senior DAPA official said.

DAPA is expected to issue a request for proposal on Jan. 30 without the requirements of the conformal weapons bay and a specific target value for the radar cross section of the plane. (Source: Lee Tae-hoon, The Korea Times)
"Boeing Refines Plans For Korea"
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 2/13/2012 12:41 AM CST


Boeing is sharpening pencils for its bid in Korea's FX-III competition, after last year's defeats in India and Japan. A major rule change has opened FX-III up to new entrants, and to make things more interesting, Korea's Defense Acquisition Procurement Administration also wants bidders to include terms under which they would assist Korea in developing an indigenous KFX fighter. Responses to the request for proposals are due in mid-June and a decision should follow in late September or early October.

The big change is the elimination of a requirement for internal weapon bays, Boeing Military Aircraft vice-president for international business development Jeff Kohler said in Singapore on Monday. That requirement would have narrowed the field to two: the Joint Strike Fighter and Boeing's Silent Eagle.

The change frees Boeing to offer what's basically the F-15SA -- the variant for the new Saudi Arabian order -- to South Korea, without the Silent Eagle's conformal weapon bays and canted tails. "It's a good bird", says Kohler, with BAE Systems' digital electronic warfare system, fly-by-wire, dual helmet-mounted displays and other improvements. (The new FBW system will start flight tests late this year.)

But the company stresses that the SE is still an option, and possibly the leading one given Korea Aerospace Industries' participation in developing the new bays.

Nonetheless, Kohler notes that last year's developments "make going forward more challenging", boosting Rafale in Brazil and encouraging Korea to match Japan in pursuing the F-35. But the timing of FX-3 -- Korea wants aircraft in-country by early 2016 -- could be a challenge for the F-35. "We'll see what rolls out in the US budget tomorrow. It could make it harder for our friends at Lockheed Martin, in terms of pricing for the next few years." That could be a bigger factor in Korea than Japan, which is taking small numbers of aircraft in its early years.

Watch for another Boeing initiative this year: a venture into lower-cost intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systems than the high-end P-8A Poseidon and its derivatives. Boeing's Network & Space Systems unit was tasked last year with looking at ISR platforms, along with BMA. "Not everyone needs anti-submarine warfare and torpedoes," Kohler says, adding that the P-8A's modular, Boeing-designed mission system can be scaled down to fit smaller platforms.

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