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convairxf92

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Over the past ten years, I've been trying to build every US jet from the P-59 through the latest F-35, 1/144 scale. I've only got two left to go (XF-81 and XF-87) and am now trying to fill in some gaps. I've read online about MiGs, captured by the USAF, given Century series fighter numbers. The F-110 (which was originally an early F-4B Phantom), F-112, and F-113. Is there any evidence of aircraft given F-114, F-115 or F-116? How about after the F-117? Thanks.

- Jim
 

quellish

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convairxf92 said:
Over the past ten years, I've been trying to build every US jet from the P-59 through the latest F-35, 1/144 scale. I've only got two left to go (XF-81 and XF-87) and am now trying to fill in some gaps. I've read online about MiGs, captured by the USAF, given Century series fighter numbers. The F-110 (which was originally an early F-4B Phantom), F-112, and F-113. Is there any evidence of aircraft given F-114, F-115 or F-116? How about after the F-117? Thanks.

- Jim

This should give some insight:
http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/coverdesignations.html
 

convairxf92

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Quellish:

I've seen this site before. Do you think the information is accurate? Thanks.
 

flateric

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Andreas Parsch is No.1 for me in designation systems.
Moreover, he's one of forum members...
 

Andreas Parsch

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convairxf92 said:
I've seen this site before. Do you think the information is accurate?
Good question - I like it, when researchers don't believe internet sources at face value ;)!

Anyway, the "Cover Designations" page should be as accurate as it can get, regarding the unofficial nature of the data. I've taken care to give rather detailed information about my sources, but feel free to ask for more background information if needed. As for the general accuracy of "Designation-Systems.Net", I give no guarantees ;D , but if you want to know sources for some specific piece of information, just ask. For anything related to U.S. aircraft and missile designations, I can often provide primary (official DoD or USAF) documents.

@flateric: Thank you :)!


Regards
Andreas
 

convairxf92

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Andreas:

So.....as I'm planning my next strategy to build 1/144 aircraft, here are my conclusions - please correct me if I'm mistaken:

F-112 - yet to be determined
F-113 - choice between MiG-17 or MiG-23
F-114 - MiG-17
F-115 - ?
F-116 - MiG-25 (?)
F-118 - MiG-29 (?)

Were any of these planes marked with US markings? Any photos available? I've seen one on the internet of a MiG-21 with US markings, but none of the others listed. As I am completing my US fighter series, every plane I've built had to have US markings (my patriotism), which required, at times, custom decals, so creating them is not an issue. Thanks.

- Jim
 

quellish

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convairxf92 said:
Andreas:

So.....as I'm planning my next strategy to build 1/144 aircraft, here are my conclusions - please correct me if I'm mistaken:

F-112 - yet to be determined
F-113 - choice between MiG-17 or MiG-23
F-114 - MiG-17
F-115 - ?
F-116 - MiG-25 (?)
F-118 - MiG-29 (?)

Were any of these planes marked with US markings? Any photos available? I've seen one on the internet of a MiG-21 with US markings, but none of the others listed. As I am completing my US fighter series, every plane I've built had to have US markings (my patriotism), which required, at times, custom decals, so creating them is not an issue. Thanks.

- Jim

There are a good number of photos out there now of these aircraft with US markings. Here is a good starting point:
http://area51specialprojects.com/migs.html
 

hesham

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Hi,


in the LA FANA magazine issue 158,I found a small info about F-112,and of course
it was by French language,and when I translate the part of F-112,I get that;



The General Dynamics F-111 would see in the day 1964,that the
version of the Lockheed A-11, became YF-12A ,was departing to call
F-112.
 

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Stargazer2006

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Google Translator is useful to get a general understanding of a passage, but you really should not resort to automatic translation for such small excerpts...

Send a PM to a forum member and ask them to translate! That will keep you from posting such jibberish!

The passage says:

"it's hard to find one's way [in the designations system], especially when you know that F-110 was the original USAF designation for the F4H-1 « Phantom » II, that the General Dynamics F-111 would appear only in 1964 and that the interceptor version of the Lockheed A-11, which became the YF-12A, was originally to be called the F-112."

I must say that even in my own language I find this sentence awfully badly written! No wonder the Google Translator messed things up so much!
 

Jos Heyman

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What was the data of that La Fana magazine?
Linking F-112 to the Lockheed F-12 is indeed tempting and it is something that I suggested in my own (private) records until about 15 years ago, be it with a clear comment that there was no documentary evidence for that. Since then I have become convinced that the F-112/F-12 link is not correct. The fact that the F-12 designation was not assigned until 27 April 1964 will have contributed to this.
Considering the classified nature of the Lockheed A-11 and considering that it was in fact a CIA aircraft, I doubt that the USAF assigned a designation in the early days. Different, but to a certain extent the same, was the Northrop Freedom Fighter, which flew for the first time on 30 July 1959, was not a USAF aircraft and did not have a designation in spite of the fact that it carried a USAF serial. It was not until 22 October 1962 that the F-5 designation was assigned.
I would be reluctant to accept the La Fana statement as conclusive evidence.
 

hesham

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My dear Jos,


the date for Issue 158 is 1983.
 

Stargazer2006

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Jos Heyman said:
What was the data of that La Fana magazine?
Linking F-112 to the Lockheed F-12 is indeed tempting and it is something that I suggested in my own (private) records until about 15 years ago, be it with a clear comment that there was no documentary evidence for that. Since then I have become convinced that the F-112/F-12 link is not correct. The fact that the F-12 designation was not assigned until 27 April 1964 will have contributed to this.
Considering the classified nature of the Lockheed A-11 and considering that it was in fact a CIA aircraft, I doubt that the USAF assigned a designation in the early days. Different, but to a certain extent the same, was the Northrop Freedom Fighter, which flew for the first time on 30 July 1959, was not a USAF aircraft and did not have a designation in spite of the fact that it carried a USAF serial. It was not until 22 October 1962 that the F-5 designation was assigned.
I would be reluctant to accept the La Fana statement as conclusive evidence.

I agree. Yet this is not the first time I've read about that early F-112 allocation, but of course the article above might have repeated an earlier mistake from an earlier book or article, so it doesn't prove a thing.
 

Andreas Parsch

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Stargazer2006 said:
I agree. Yet this is not the first time I've read about that early F-112 allocation, but of course the article above might have repeated an earlier mistake from an earlier book or article, so it doesn't prove a thing.
I could quote several "designation myths" which have been repeated for decades in printed sources and/or websites, but have nevertheless been proven wrong. And regarding the "YF-12 was originally to be the F-112" speculation: The likelyhood of this being true is very low, IMHO.
 

Stargazer2006

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Yes Andreas. Wasn't F-12 an inhouse Lockheed designation which conveniently found its place in the DoD's system, anyway? It was part of the A-12/RB-12 (SR-71)/M-12 series I think.

Which reminds me of another frequent mistake: there never was an "A-11" designation allocated, and especially not to the Lockheed A-12 or any of its versions!
 

LowObservable

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IIRC "A-12" was a Lockheed designation. The U-2 was nicknamed "Angel" within Lockheed, and its replacement was "Archangel", with numerous very different versions starting at A-1. A-11 was a non-stealthy design; A-12 was the result of the CIA insisting that Lockheed emulate GD's stealth work.


F-110 and F-111 were logically applied under the pre-Oct 1962 nomenclature system, the difference being that F-110 was rolled into the new joint system when the F4H was redesignated. YF-12 was applied after the Oct 62 change as the next open fighter designation after the Grumman F-11A Tiger.
 

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