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English Electric Lightning projects

overscan (PaulMM)

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VG Lightning projects...

These were Royal Navy projects.

A nice VG Lightning model (unofficial :) can be found here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=476

Sources:
  • Tony Buttler, British Secret Projects: Jet Fighters
  • Kev Darling, Warbirdtech 28: English Electric Lightning
 

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fightingirish

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Info, pic's and links stolen from what if modelers forum!
BillSlim @ what if modelers forum said:
If you want one, or the TSR.2 brochure, the NW Heritage Group might still have a few left.

They can be reached at:

BAE SYSTEMS - North West Heritage Group
Warton Aerodrome (W23H)
Preston
PR4 1AX
Tel: 01772 855941

The Lightning brochure was £5.50, the TSR.2 was a bit cheaper at £5, though prices have probably changed.
Source: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=17220&st=0
 

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Hammer Birchgrove

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About when would the VG Lightning, naval and land-based, have made their respective maiden flights and entered service? ???

Thanks in advance. :)
 

Hammer Birchgrove

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zen said:
Hammer Birchgrove
Depends on the sort of difficulties they'd have developing the VG wing.
So if I wanted to make a What If? story, I could go anywhere from 1965 to 1972? (Not much of a point having it after, as I see it.)
 

Hammer Birchgrove

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I think I should've asked when English Electric/BAC made the respective suggestions. :)

Thanks in advance.
 

zen

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First VG Lightning is for the VG research work sometime late 1950's if my memory is correct, that under Type 588 studies that covered several aircraft.

Naval VG Lightning is to AW406 I think sometime between 1963 and 1965.

In theory a VG Lightning is quite a plausable effort.
 

hesham

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Hi,

P.3 Projected development of P.1 with side intakes, March 1951.
P.5 Projected development of P.1 with one Rolls-Royce Avon RA.12
with reheat, March 1952.
P.6 Projected development of Lightning to meet ER.134T, April-
August 1953.
P.8 Projected development of Lightning – tandem 2-seat high
altitude fighter to meet F.155T. Area-ruled fuselage, air-to-air
missiles on wingtips. September 1955.
P.15 Projected photo-reconnaissance version of Lightning,
Feb 1956 .
P.18 Projected low-altitude bomber version of Lightning,
Oct-Nov 1956.
P.19 Projected interceptor variant of Lightning.
P.23 Projected development of Lightning.
P.33 Projected 2-seat strike-fighter version for Australia.
P.34 Projected single-seat ground-attack version for RAF.
VG Lightning Projected version of Lightning T.5 with
variable-geometry wing, enlarged ventral pack and folding
fin for carrier-borne naval interceptor role, autumn 1963-
April 1964.

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/aircraft/english-electric-lightning.htm
 

JFC Fuller

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Wow, i have not seen this thread, I have checked BSP Jet Fighters and it makes reference to the P.3 with wind tunnel testing taking place in the second half of 1951 and first half of 1954. This is a potentially fascinating lightning derivative and I would love to see some imagery of it!
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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P.6/1 - Single RB.106 engine, variable intake centerbody [inboard profile & sections in Project Cancelled (2nd ed.) and 3 view in British Secret Projects : Jet Fighters]
P.6/2 - Two Armstrong Siddeley Sa.7 or Rolls-Royce RA.18 engines, also delta variant [3 views in British Secret Projects : Jet Fighters]
P.6B - Straight wing, wing mounted engines [3 view in British Secret Projects : Jet Fighters]
P.6D - canard [3 view in British Secret Projects : Jet Fighters]
P.8 - see topic here.
P.23 - Genie-armed Lightning project [Drawing showing Genie installation in Project Cancelled (2nd Edition)]
 

zen

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P.3 Projected development of P.1 with side intakes, March 1951.
Intriguing one that. Had they dealt with the inlet issues and provided a larger scanner all sorts of things are possible.
 

JFC Fuller

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overscan said:
Thought I'd seen a drawing but can't think where.
I know that feeling! If you do remember please do let me know.

I see that the P.6/1 would have used the RB.106 Thames, once again that engine crops up!
 

JFC Fuller

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zen said:
P.3 Projected development of P.1 with side intakes, March 1951.
Intriguing one that. Had they dealt with the inlet issues and provided a larger scanner all sorts of things are possible.
Indeed, perhaps there was an opportunity to make something exceptional out of the Lightning prior to the P.8 design?
 

Petrus

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In the "Air Pictorial" issue of June 1998 there was an article "Lightning and the unbuilt projects" by Tony Buttler.
(http://www.theaviationindex.com/publication/air-pictorial/volume-60-issue-06-1998)

As its title impied the article contained information on unbuilt versions of the Lightning, including advanced interceptor, ground attack as well as recce variants.

Unfortunately my copy has apparently been lost during a removal, so I can't tell more on that, as I read the article quite a few years ago.

Hopefully somebody in the forum does have it. If so please let us know.

Best regards,
Piotr
 

lark

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I have it... :)

(four pages 362-365)
 

hesham

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Hi,


from the book; Warbird Tech; English Electric Lightning,here is;


1- earliest design of 1948
2- a design with a staggered two-engine layout
3- nearly the final design of 1949
 

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hesham

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Also in Air Pictorial 2/1956,


they spoke about report for English Electric P.1 Lightning to be had a single large turbojet
engine plus a rocket motor,I never heard about such thing before ?.
 

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Jemiba

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Maybe the P.6/1, which would have had a RB.106 engine, although I couldn't
find mention of an additional rocket engine
(drawing from Derek Wood "Project Cancelled")
 

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hesham

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That's right my dear Jemiba,


but maybe unveiled version ?.
 

Hood

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I'm sure I've read somewhere that there was a brief plan to put a Napier Scorpion in the ventral tank.
I'd need to find the source again though to confirm that.
 

JFC Fuller

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Hood,

See here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12762.msg125858.html#msg125858
 

Hood

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Thanks. At least I know my memory isn't failing me!
 

andy_d

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FlyPast recently published a special on "Cold War Warriors," which includes an article on the experiences of Trevor MacDonald Bennett, a former RAF Lightning pilot who went on to train Saudi pilots on the type. He recalls the Lightning as being pretty effective in its secondary ground-attack role with the RSAF, and remarks that the Saudi T55 (the only mark to have both twin seats and the big ventral tank) had the potential to be "the best of the breed." So perhaps the projects for naval or multi-role Lightnings weren't too far-fetched.
 

JFC Fuller

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Found in "History Of The Gloster Javelin" by Ian Smith Watson:

In order to make keeping the Lightning on a more viable prospect, various options were considered, including angle of attack indicators to be fitted to all remaining Lightnings at a cost of £180,000-£190,000. Further, at a cost of £190,000, fitting a cold air unit to sixty-one Mk 6 Lightnings in order to improve low level performance was considered.
The same book states that it was expectation that two Lightning Mk.6 equipped squadrons (almost certainly including 60 Squadron) would remain in the Far East until 1972/73.
 

Grey Havoc

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In July 1959 he went to Germany as a wing commander in charge of air defence operations at the sector control centre at Brockzetel, near Wilhelmshaven. Three years later he returned to the test pilot arena as a squadron commander at Boscombe Down, where he was responsible for fighter development and testing the early version of the Lightning supersonic interceptor and the Hawker P 1127, the forerunner to the Harrier jump jet.
RIP. :(
 

Tony Williams

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The Royal Air Force Historical Society published Journal 72, which came out in 2019, and is devoted entirely to the Lightning. The articles are mostly about service use, but include two by Tony Wilson: "Lightning Genesis" and "Lightning Development Studies and Proposals".

As usual, the Journal is effectively a text version of presentations given at meetings of the Society. These are very interesting, including a vast amount of direct experience from those who were there.

This is the source, although there is a delay in publishing the Journals: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/default/raf-historical-society-journals.aspx
 

kaiserd

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zen said:
P.3 Projected development of P.1 with side intakes, March 1951.
Intriguing one that. Had they dealt with the inlet issues and provided a larger scanner all sorts of things are possible.
Indeed, perhaps there was an opportunity to make something exceptional out of the Lightning prior to the P.8 design?
The Royal Air Force Historical Society published Journal 72, which came out in 2019, and is devoted entirely to the Lightning. The articles are mostly about service use, but include two by Tony Wilson: "Lightning Genesis" and "Lightning Development Studies and Proposals".

As usual, the Journal is effectively a text version of presentations given at meetings of the Society. These are very interesting, including a vast amount of direct experience from those who were there.

This is the source, although there is a delay in publishing the Journals: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/default/raf-historical-society-journals.aspx
Great resource - thanks for the link.
 
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