Embraer KC-390 Millennium

Austria and Netherland finalize their joint discussion with Embraer for 9 C-390:

Deliveries to the Netherlands had initially been slated for 2026 but will now happen a year later. Last month, Dutch Defense Secretary Christophe Van der Maat said that the country's joint agreement with Austria means the first delivery will now take place sometime in late 2027. After this, its four remaining C-390s will all be delivered before the end of the decade.

c-390 signing ceremony fia 2024

Photo: Embraer
On the plus side, sealing a joint deal will enable both countries to benefit from a lower acquisition cost per plane. Both air forces will also closely collaborate on training and logistics and be perfectly positioned to partner with other NATO C-390 operators - this currently includes Portugal, operator of the first NATO-configured C-390, while Hungary and the Czech Republic have also lodged orders for the plane.
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https://simpleflying.com/netherlands-austria-order-9-embraer-c-390s-pave-way-nato/
 
Just asking a dumbarse question - what advantages does it bring, compared to the all-ubiquitous C-130J ? I mean, everybody and his dog seems pleased with the C-130 since 60 years or more...
 
Cheaper MRO (new maintenance chain and twin Turbofans)
Fast and High alt cruise
More comfortable ride (a factor in long range deployment such as Europe to Pacific)
Increase rotation number (see point above)
Same infrastructure as C-130 (cabin volume )

What it does not offer:
Ubiquity (see all mission that the C-130 mastered over the years)
Unprepared runway operations
A network of subcontractor knowingly able to adapt anything on it.
4 engines to generate power for subsystems.

IMOHO, the C-390 is more a C-295 competing partner that also offers C-130 size cargo operations.
 
The C-390 cargo bay is a little wider and taller than the C-130's, and is sized between the C-130H/J and C-130H-30/J-30 in length.

Its payload capacity is 30% greater than either C-130 variant.

KC-390: Length 12.68 m X width 3.45 m X height 2.9 m (3.2 m aft of wing) + 5.82 m length on ramp
Payload: 26,000 kg

C-130H/J: Length 12.31 m X width 3.12 m X height 2.74 m + 3.12 m length on ramp
Payload: 20,000 kg

C-130H-30/J-30: Length 16.9 m X width 3.12 m X height 2.74 m + 3.12 m length on ramp
Payload: 20,000 kg
 
TomcatViP said:
Cheaper MRO (new maintenance chain and twin Turbofans)
Fast and High alt cruise
More comfortable ride (a factor in long range deployment such as Europe to Pacific)
Increase rotation number (see point above)
Same infrastructure as C-130 (cabin volume )

What it does not offer:
Ubiquity (see all mission that the C-130 mastered over the years)
Unprepared runway operations
A network of subcontractor knowingly able to adapt anything on it.
4 engines to generate power for subsystems.

IMOHO, the C-390 is more a C-295 competing partner that also offers C-130 size cargo operations.
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Mostly agree, though the MRO aspect is helped by the V2500 being one of the two most widespread commercial engine families today. For engine-related maintenance at least, the C-390 can probably draw on a bigger contractor base than the C-130! BTW, engine electrical generator output in non-SOCOM Hercs is about the same (4x40/50kVA vs. 2x90kVA).

Maro.Kyo said:
Atlas was part of the bid and lost to Millenium.
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Hence *second* chance. If this programme favoured something in the C-130-class, the A400M bid was always going to be a long shot, with Airbus simply not having anything right-sized to offer. Its defeat would then be of no consequence regarding a new requirement for something larger, however.
 
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Not really surprising that Sweden are interested in buying the C-390 looks like this is a big thank you to Embraer for their continued partnership after buying the Gripen E and of course supplying the radar for the GlobalEye AWACS.
 
The Dutch air force ordered a few as well, they could possibly be ordered on merit?
 
The 390 is not a substitute for the 130. See it more like a shortened modern C-141.
IMOHO the C-390 is competing on the same ground as the CN-295 but with payload bay directly compatible with that of the C-130.

In effect, it directly competes against the Airbus combo: A400/CN 135/195 offering faster depot to troops delivery with a similar volume and direct effective unprepared airstrip delivery when 390 & 130 are paired. Think Vietnam and the usage of C-141 relayed by 130 and 123 in the context of the Pacific now as seen from Europe.
 
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TomcatViP said:
O 390 não é um substituto do 130. Veja-o mais como um C-141 moderno e encurtado.
Na minha opinião, o C-390 está competindo no mesmo nível do CN-295, mas com compartimento de carga diretamente compatível com o do C-130.

Na verdade, ele compete diretamente com o combo da Airbus: A400/CN 135/195 oferecendo entrega mais rápida do depósito para as tropas com um volume similar e entrega direta e efetiva de pista de pouso despreparada quando 390 e 130 são pareados. Pense no Vietnã e no uso do C-141 retransmitido por 130 e 123 no contexto do Pacífico agora, como visto da Europa.
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C-390 has 26 ton capacity....
 
@carvalho2008 : absolutely. Better payload & slightly better volume. But on tactical ground, what are the takeoff restrictions with one engine out? That´s what would matter with unprepared airstrips.
 
TomcatViP said:
@carvalho2008 : absolutely. Better payload & slightly better volume. But on tactical ground, what are the takeoff restrictions with one engine out? That´s what would matter with unprepared airstrips.
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The C-390 Millennium is capable of carrying out missions on small runways, such as those in the Amazon.
 
TomcatViP said:
In effect, it directly competes against the Airbus combo: A400/CN 135/195 offering faster depot to troops delivery with a similar volume and direct effective unprepared airstrip delivery when 390 & 130 are paired. Think Vietnam and the usage of C-141 relayed by 130 and 123 in the context of the Pacific now as seen from Europe.
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As a matter of fact, Indonesia (Airbus partner in the CN135/195 program) just signed an agreement for further cooperation with Embraer:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brazils-embraer-signs-mou-expand-133412891.html
Embraer executive Rodrigo Silva e Souza said Indonesia was one of the fastest growing aviation markets globally, adding that Embraer had identified "areas where both parties can leverage their expertise, enhance Indonesia's aerospace capabilities and expand its air connectivity."
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Slovakia is up next

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?...on-for-its-future-military-transport-aircraft
The Slovak Ministry of Defense today signed a Letter of Intent with the Brazilian Ministry of Defense, paving the way for a deeper industrial cooperation between the two countries. During this visit to Brazil, the Slovak Minister of Defense acknowledged that the Embraer C-390 is the option that better fits Slovakia’s future military transport requirements.

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cheers
 
I mean, had Lockheed not beaten the C390 into the air by a couple years, I suspect that the US would have replaced all their C130s with C390s.
 
TomS said:
C-130J First Flight: 1996
KC-390 First Flight: 2015

I submit that 19 years is more than "a couple."
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Granted.

I still maintain that had the two been much closer timewise, it's likely the US would have bought KC390s instead of Herk Js.
 
Embraer should expand production to Mexico. Mexico could definitely use some to replace its eclectic mix of C-130s.
 
Mexico is certainly a promising sales prospect, but I don't think a second production line is economical at the low rate this thing will be built at. As I said earlier in the thread, with the large US market already taken, this type of aircraft will be steadily ticking over at single digit order increments. As with Portugal and the Czech Republic, parts production in Mexico would definitely be an attractive option though.
 
I am surprised that Turkey has not elected to go this route, vice gaining secondhand C-130J. Being associated with BRICS (sp).

Must be financial constraints due all the other endeavors they have going on at the moment.
 
Same thoughts here yasotay about Turkey not opting for the C-390s, that would have been a better move than the second hand C-130s that they did get in the end.
 
FighterJock said:
Same thoughts here yasotay about Turkey not opting for the C-390s, that would have been a better move than the second hand C-130s that they did get in the end.
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Funny thing is, Embraer had offered TAI a rather good partnership deal back in 2013-14 or so, but sadly TAI management saw no ROI in doing that. This was also back when TAI had received a contract by the government to build a regional airliner based on Dornier 328.

I bet they're kicking themselves right now (and they should!)...
 

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