EKIP 'flying saucer'

[boxkite]

What is the last stage of development of the Russian EKIP design(s)?

 

[flateric]

Ruine. Still looking for investments, don't want to sell technology to Chinese and Germany who wanted to buy. Patriotism.
Here's their site http://www.ekip-aviation-concern.com/
All government speeches of state support went nowhere. Here's a list)))

6. GOVERNMENTAL SUPPORT OF "EKIP" PROJECT


Resolution of the Council of Ministers - Government of the Russian Federation NQ 261 dated June 30, 1993

- Solution of the Council of Ministers - Government of the Russian Federation NQ 1642-P dated 30/09/93.

- Resolution of Meeting held by First Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation (Minutes OL-P7-13 Pr of 02/08/96)

- (Minutes OL-P7-29 Pr of 11/11/96)

- Assignment of the President of the Russian Federation (Assignment Pr-1734 of 24/10/97)

- Resolution of the State Duma of the Russian Federation on Budgetary Financing of "EKIP" Project in 1999 (Item of RF Budget in 1999 - 9.2.2)

- Central Bureau of Forest Protection of Federal Forestry Service of Russia (Agreement)

- RF Ministry of Defense, RF Air Force Scientific Development Complex (Agreement)

- Letter of Saratov Region Governor Mr. Ayatskov to the President of the Russian Federation (Ref. 1-07/1913 of 24/09/97)

- Letter of the President of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences to the President of the Russian Federation (Ref. 17-177/98 of 19/08/98, performed by O..Kuznetsov)

- Letter of the Deputy Chairman of Industry, Construction, Transport and Power Committee of the RF State Duma to the Government of the Russian Federation (Ref. Na33.11-21/1594 dated 07/10/98, performed by Yu.K. Sevenard)

- Letter of the President of Rosconvers Aerokosmos to the Government of the Russian Federation (Ref. NQ AR-452/10 dated 08/10/98, performed by R. Musaelyan)

- Letter of Minister of Federal Forestry Service of Russia to the RF Government (Ref. N2 DO-1-8-5/397 of 09.10.98, performed by B. Shubin)

- Letter of Minister for Emergency Situations to the Government of the Russian Federation (Ref. Ns 1-432-16 of 07/10/98, performed by S. Shoygu)

 

[Matej]

Wasnt there U.S. Navy order?

 

[flateric]

Yep, I've read such stuff about Naval Air Systems Command attempt to cooperate with EKIP concern to build EKIP-concept based UAV, this news is exactly 3 years old, but nothing in the air so far.

 

[Matej]

Well, we must wait until 2007. Three additional prototypes were planned to manufacture in this year with serial production begin in 2010. The next year shows...

 

[flateric]

Crossing fingers, Mato...Looking how fast Skunk Works arranged their Polecat and comparing...and also I'm very sceptic about technology transfer...otherwise, remembering my years at KPO Zvezda-Strela that sold Kh-31's (in form of MA-31 Krypton) to US NAVY...everything possible.

 

[Matej]

A VERY interesting inside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cThIbDONerI&feature=player_embedded

 

[Matej]

Proposed 1200 passanger version and the condition of the subscale prototype from 2009.

 

[Orionblamblam]

A VERY interesting inside.

Wow. Looks like they've taken the old gag of taking anything that was invented in the West and claiming it was actually invented in Russia, and applied that to loopy Burnelli conspiracy theories. I especially liked the claim that American investors stole the design concept, spent 28 billion dollars building their own version of it, then crashed it.

 

[Matej]

Well, it is certain that anything close to the EKIP was not invented in the West (yet). The statement about the 28 billion dollars is clearly wrong. The man really said billion, but if this is really true, I think he means million.

And if its related especially to the Boeing, overgrown with all sorts of corruption, cheating and unfair game (Delta IV rockets against Atlas V, spying the Airbus, etc. etc. etc.), I must constrain myself to say only that this seems to be plausible, instead of solid truth.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Well, it is certain that anything close to the EKIP was not invented in the West (yet).

[quote author=Generic Burnelli Conspiracy Theorist] You LIE!!! The EKIP is clearly a ripoff of the Vincent Burnelli lifting body design concept, which is the safest, cheapest, most fuel efficient flying machine ever designed anywhere ever in the universe! It's being held back by The Man!!![/quote]

Blah, blah, blah.

Basically, what the feller in the video was saying was damn near word for word what a lot of the Burnelli nutjobs have been blathering about for sixty years, just with names and locations changed. Both the conspiracies and the overblown promises of the capabilities of the aircraft are the same old dreary nonsense.

EKIP looked interesting, but it didn't look like it really provided any verifiable advantages. It's basically got the seating arrangement of a Boeing Blended Wing Body, stuck inside a *fat* fuselage guaranteed to generate a vast amount of needless drag. It looks like it might perform more efficiently than BWB at really low speeds... but who'd want to sit in a closed box like that at a hundred and fifty miles an hour when the same level of effort could build a modern airship that travels further, just as fast, and at a fraction of the cost... and with a far better view?

 

[Matej]

It looks like it might perform more efficiently than BWB at really low speeds... but who'd want to sit in a closed box like that at a hundred and fifty miles an hour when the same level of effort could build a modern airship that travels further, just as fast, and at a fraction of the cost... and with a far better view?

Cargo in the coastline perhaps? It seems that they were combining a lot of technologies like the ground effect, boundary layer suction, some sort of water injection into the engine... Just try to stay alive long enough, this project is in my focus list, so I will find the truth during my lifetime.

And I am not aware nor interested in any Burnelli conspiracy theories.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Cargo in the coastline perhaps?

Seaplanes used to be common. Now they're not. And I'm just not seeign a revived seaplane industry of any real note. Why? Because every city in the world *already* has an airport, msot with easy access to the local ground transportation infrastructure.

And I am not aware nor interested in any Burnelli conspiracy theories.

Good for you. But just be aware, they are essentially just what the Russian guy in the video was saying... just in English and with a few names changed. Still pretty much blames Boeing for everything, though.

 

[Simon666]

EKIP looked interesting, but it didn't look like it really provided any verifiable advantages. It's basically got the seating arrangement of a Boeing Blended Wing Body, stuck inside a *fat* fuselage guaranteed to generate a vast amount of needless drag.

Regarding the needless drag of a *fat* fuselage like that, the claim about the EKIP is that the vortex cells at the rear prevent separation all the way to the end, so profile drag should be a lot lower than is to be expected of that shape. Seemed to work somewhat in wind tunnels with scale models as far as I remember from publications (EU funded some research in vortex cells), but I doubt how well those magical vortex cells work when scaled up. Still, it looks like fuselage volume would be greater than necessary. They claim this as an advantage over traditional cramped airliners of today, but since weight for a pressure vessel is proportional to volume I would definitely count that, on top of the shape itself, as a definite disadvantage. For extinguishing forest fires however, you don't need to pressurize any passengers, so there I could see it. Induced drag is a different topic alltogether too, difficult to say which way that would go, span decreases but so does wing weight.

 

[flateric]

AFAIK, [independent] WT test have shown that even in case of one engine failure, EKIP goes down like brick

 

[OM]

Wow. Looks like they've taken the old gag of taking anything that was invented in the West and claiming it was actually invented in Russia

[chekov]

"Scotch. It vas inwented by a little old lady from Leningrad!"

[/chekov]

 

[flanker]

Wow. Looks like they've taken the old gag of taking anything that was invented in the West and claiming it was actually invented in Russia...

You know, most of the time, it goes other way. I have seen idiots claiming that MiG-29 is a copy of F-16, and that Su-27 is copy of F-15. Two fins, two engines, wheels, cockpit, you get the idea...

A few days ago i watched program about design during WW2. And there the british claimed that it was uber genius that Mosquito was made of wood (and that it was the first fighter/bomber that was, never mind the Soviets with LaGG-3, Yak-1 etc...) and that it was the fastest plane from 1941 to 1945. Oh and behold, they even said it was the first stealth plane. No kidding. They said "It was virtually invisible to radar". I still have a facepalm mark.

Ok, sorry for the off topic...

 

[Orionblamblam]

You know, most of the time, it goes other way. I have seen idiots claiming that MiG-29 is a copy of F-16, and that Su-27 is copy of F-15. Two fins, two engines, wheels, cockpit, you get the idea...

I think you perhaps mistook my (perhaps badly phrased) meaning. I meant *not* that EKIP is a ripoff of a Western design, but that the odd conspiracy theories and magical claims about EKIP are ripoffs of Burnelli conspiracies and claims.

That said, the EKIP is clearly a ripoff of a Western design.

 

[Steve Pace]

Looks like a pregnant HL-10 without a vertical tail on its dorsal centerline -SP

 

[OM]

Looks like a pregnant HL-10 without a vertical tail on its dorsal centerline -SP

...I think the real test of that theory is to extrapolate the nature of said offspring that would be produced from such a birth

 

[Grey Havoc]

Artist's impression of Saratov Aviation Plant EKIP (Ecology and Progress) ground effect vehicle developed in the late 1980s.

Source: http://www.liveinternet.ru/community/802038/post118445369/

 

[shedofdread]

From Imperial College - https://www.imperial.ac.uk/aeronautics/fluiddynamics/ResearchInfo/FlowsWithTrappedVortices.pdf makes mention of the EKIP platform.

 

[Stargazer]

Here is a set of previously unposted pictures of the EKIP concept and L2-3 prototype:

 

[Stargazer]

All the above images can be found (along with a lot of information and specs in Russian) inside the following documents (and two others which are too big to attach here):

 

[Trident]

Seems it's still around, and in relatively decent condition too:

Aviation Photo #5503865: Vortex Cell 2050 - Untitled

Photo taken at Chernogolovka in Russia on April 24, 2019.

www.airliners.net

 

[hesham]

From Air Force 1994/10.

 

[Archibald]

UKIP flying saucer ? for you british ? (runs for cover !)

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/oarqx9

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/oarqx9/ekip_bodywing_prototype_and_model_of_passenger/

 

[Cy-27]

There were also more EKIP references in the following publications:

Aerospace Journal September-October 1996 [Page 30]
Flight International 29 June - 5 July 1994
Russian Aerospace News 2001

Unfortunately, none of these are accessible at present,until I clear access to my loft space !