Anti-drone technologies and tactics

yahya said:
Gerbera foam drones, which according to wiki have a range of mere 370 miles, were downed in Poland i.a. by KLu F-35s. One of them allegedly damaged a house.

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And a debris-assembled one found on a rabbit cage in Poland.



More on the Gerbera:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerbera_(drone)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2025_Russian_drone_incursion_into_Poland
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Damaged house turned out damaged in a storm in July . But of course never miss an opportunity for some more Russia did it.

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Ainen said:
To be fair, i have a feeling house wasn't damaged by gerbera - fast google says it's a 18 kg foam plane.
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Apparently, the Russians are big on recycling ,they pick up damaged drones in Ukraine, duct tape the damaged parts to hold them together, and up we go from Russia over ukraine or Belarus to Poland on a "attack trip".

Not to mention the excellent quality of the Polish asbestos roof tiles on that chicken coop that held the recycled drone impact.

The jokes write themselves.
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More on the drones found in Poland.

https://t.me/CyberspecNews/90869
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/90923
There are reports that these drones were equipped with the Controlled reception pattern antennas (CRPA) to override GPS spoofing. Whether that was successful remains unattested.

And firing AIM-120s against these cheap drones resembles the RSAF way of dealing with Houthi drones in the past.
 
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Ultimately you will see truck mounted SMRs powering ultra high energy microwave DEWs as the solution.
 

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yahya said:
An interesting interpretation of the drone incident in Poland and how these drones could have been downed.

https://weapons.substack.com/p/did-russia-attack-poland-with-drones
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That's a particularly creative piece of evidence-free writing.

yahya said:
And an interesting map showing heavy GPS spoofing in that part of the world.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/gps-jamming
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Putting an expensive anti-jamming antenna on Gerbera, where cheapness was the primary design driver, is like putting lipstick on a pig. If you're doing it, you're doing it for a reason, which makes that flight of drones atypical before they ever launched.

Meanwhile attempts to blame Ukraine for the incursion don't explain the incursions into Lithuania in July.
 
Interesting analysis from a Russian blog:

"A minimum of 20 UAVs entered Polish airspace from western Ukraine and Belarus, of the Gerber type. The exact quantities vary, Poland claims 19 units, Ukrainian monitoring channels that specialize in UAV tracking write about 24.

The destruction of the UAVs involved NATO forces in Poland; AEW Gulfstream G550 CAEW from Italy, an unknown tanker airplane, also Netherlandish F-35A and Polish F-16s involved in the intercept.

It's known that the F-35A managed to intercept 3 UAVs with AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM, that cost ~1.5 mln USD each, the rest of the drones fell on their own. So far Polish authorities have found 15 UAVs.

What are the consequences.

Among obvious diplomatic protests in the Netherlands and Poland, there are a couple of interesting conclusions.

First of all these weren't normal Gerberas. As noted previously the Gerberas had additional fuel tanks, which has never been spotted on Gerberas in Ukraine. Second of the drones were simple but nonetheless carried CRP-antennas to protect from EW.

So the UAVs that entered Poland were specifically meant for Poland, and had a specific purpose of flying over Poland for as long as possible. Of course it's also possible that this was an accident.

There are also interesting aftershocks.

The most important - everyone witnessed the inability of NATO to deal with even the simplest of aerial threats. To intercept flying compositeboards for several thousand dollars, they used AEW and F-35As missiles that cost millions, and only managed to intercept 3 UAVs. It's not hard to predict that were we to launch 300-400 Shaheds at Zheshuv and there would be nothing left of it. As a reminder, these Gerbers were unarmed.

NATO understands this and are already making their first, though not particularly useful, moves - the Netherlands have decide to deploy two SAMs Patriot and NASAMS to eastern Poland. This leads to another situation - western SAMs that could have been handed over to Ukraine will instead be kept for cases like these, something Zelensky is already complaining about.

Another important moment - no reaction came from NATO - they just held consultations and condemntations, and that means that next time accidentally one could send tens of Shaheds to vacation in Zheshuv."
 
ComradeVortex said:
First of all these weren't normal Gerberas. As noted previously the Gerberas had additional fuel tanks, which has never been spotted on Gerberas in Ukraine. Second of the drones were simple but nonetheless carried CRP-antennas to protect from EW.
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That antenna adds probably 50% plus to the baseline cost of a Gerbera.

ComradeVortex said:
Another important moment - no reaction came from NATO - they just held consultations and condemntations, and that means that next time accidentally one could send tens of Shaheds to vacation in Zheshuv."
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Apparently written before the announcement of Eastern Sentry.

And having mentioned Eastern Sentry:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...n-nato-operation-to-bolster-european-security
 
Mr.T said:
Damaged house turned out damaged in a storm in July . But of course never miss an opportunity for some more Russia did it.

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Don't ridicule yourself. Even storms cannot pierce reinforced concrete.

If machine translation is correct, it's becoming obvious it was a Polish AIM-120 that has caused the damage to that building. Polish internet space is full of such reports right now. Mazel tov!

https://businessinsider.com.pl/praw...-nie-rosyjski-dron-ale-polska-rakieta/jxc0350
https://www.fakt.pl/polityka/polska...campaign=leo_automatic&srcc=undefined&utm_v=2
https://lublin.eska.pl/polska-rakie...-musimy-brac-pod-uwage-aa-jnEE-e2UE-aYZK.html
https://niezalezna.pl/polska/zniszc...-media-uderzyla-w-niego-rakieta-z-f-16/552122
https://www.msn.com/pl-pl/wiadomosc...-uderzyła-w-dom-na-lubelszczyźnie/ar-AA1MEb5D
https://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/polska...lszczyznie-media-uderzyla-w-niego-polska.html
https://oko.press/na-zywo/na-zywo-relacja/na-dom-w-wyrykach-spadla-polska-rakieta
 
The july storm was a polish story and its mostly timber and roofing , but it seems Poles intercepted a house with an Aim-120 , pro tip maybe leave the styrofoam fly as it seems AD will kill some folks sooner or later like the Ukrainians when they intercepted a tractor and killed two Poles.


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And the chicken coop drone
https://twitter.com/x/status/1967893035389521920
View: https://x.com/i/status/1967893035389521920
 
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Dilandu said:
What, not even the Kurva Bober?(
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Privet! That was actually a joke (c) by Dmitry Anatolyevich. The combination of these words seems rather unknown among the Poles. (With the exception of the case of foam drones piercing reinforced concrete).
 
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topspeed3 said:
Gerbera is double (straked) delta wing aircraft (remote controlled).
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I thought that was called a cranked arrow (like Shuttle).

In honor of Barney Miller's right hand man--the next drone should be "Wojo" with "Horshack" sub-munitions--wait--wrong show. Where's Dietrich?

Special agent Chuck Barris gave me false intel.
 
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As to the drone incident in Poland on 9/10 Sept. 2025, this explanation is very interesting:

https://t.me/the_Right_People/55793
Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus, Major General Pavel Muraveiko:

Some of the stray drones were destroyed by our country’s air defense forces over the territory of the republic.

In addition, the First Deputy Minister of Defense reported that information about the air and radar situation was exchanged with the on-duty forces and assets of Poland and Lithuania. This took place “through existing cooperation channels between 11:00 p.m. on September 9 and 4:00 a.m. on September 10.” Thus, neighboring countries were notified of the approach of unidentified aerial vehicles toward their territories.

This made it possible for the Polish side to respond promptly to the actions of the drones by scrambling its on-duty forces into the air.

Pavel Muraveiko said.
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I wonder whether the Belorussians have some sort of a 'hot line' with the Poles and Lithuanians to inform about incoming drones.
 
There are likely all kinds of low-level back channels. Lots of people in that part of the world have both Ukrainian and Russian heritage. I wonder if the late aerodynamicist Seymour Bogdonoff came from a family that helped acquire the A-12's titanium.

Brother-in-law deals are all over the planet.
 
publiusr said:
I thought that was called a cranked arrow (like Shuttle).
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You say potato, I say compound delta ;) The Saab Draken double-delta configuration definitely predates the shuttle or F-16 cranked arrow, but in practise all three names are referring to the same thing.
 
DWG said:
So far that house has been labelled as hit by weather damage, a Russian drone, and a Polish missile (not Dutch?). The insurance claim will be legendary, if it doesn't turn into another Jarndyce v Jarndyce.
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Presumably, the generous Polish taxpayers will have to compensate the damage caused by the AIM-120 fired either from a PAF-16 or KLu F-35. Doubtful the house owners had insurance, which would be anyway useless in that very case.
 
Mr.T said:
Poles sure have a fetish for zoopark arsenal shit load of platforms sourced from all around the globe ,now rivals Ukrainan zoopark , only difference is Ukrainans do not need to pay for any of their shit and most of it does not survive to its first service interval
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I suspect that rapid delivery is winning out over consistency of platform or weapons.

It's also possible that they're wanting the variety of sensors to complicate Russian countermeasures.

Plus, you can always swap a turret onto a different chassis later.
 
yahya said:
Privet! That was actually a joke (c) by Dmitry Anatolyevich. The combination of these words seems rather unknown among the Poles. (With the exception of the case of foam drones piercing reinforced concrete).
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That was not reinforced concrete....light concrete blocks.
 
publiusr said:
I thought that was called a cranked arrow (like Shuttle).

In honor of Barney Miller's right hand man--the next drone should be "Wojo" with "Horshack" sub-munitions--wait--wrong show. Where's Dietrich?

Special agent Chuck Barris gave me false intel.
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Like concorde...it is diferent form.
 
Zooparks allow for people to compare different wares, and maybe inspire a third build with the best aspects of everything that has gone on before. I'd love to see Jay Leno use some of his wealth to build a Frankencar with the best features of every pre-existing car.

Something very like that is likely going on with respect to drones. There may be enough drone parts strewn over the landscape that can be bodged together if the number of drones from single suppliers runs low.
 
View: https://youtu.be/m-v5Ui2LWYY


Victor Pinchuk Foundation said:
Sep 17, 2025

On September 13, 2025, Victor Pinchuk Foundation and Yalta European Strategy (YES) held a discussion "Drones and the Future of Warfare in Ukraine" on the occasion of the YES Annual Meeting 2025 in Kyiv. Among the participants of the discussion were:

Sven Kruck, CEO, Quantum Systems
Shamil Krutkov, Commander of the 93rd Separate Mechanized Brigade, Armed Forces of Ukraine
Oleksandr Kamyshin, Advisor to the President, Office of the President of Ukraine
Major General Christian Freuding, German Federal Ministry of Defense
Andrius Kubilius, Commissioner for Defence and Space, European Commission

Moderators: Sanna Marin, Prime Minister of Finland (2019-2023); Member, YES Board and Nataliya Gumeniuk, CEO, Public Interest Journalism Lab.

Copyright:© Victor Pinchuk Foundation - YES2025This video is authorized for public use with proper credit.

Please acknowledge © Victor Pinchuk Foundation - YES2025 as the official organizer of the conference.
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A discussion that was somewhat uneven, largely due to somewhat disparate panelists. Depending on their responsibilities, of course, they had to be wary of what they could divulge anyway.

Kruck stressed the scale and speed of production. He positioned Quantum Systems close to Ukrainian clients early on and is convinced that interaction is key to success; urgency of purpose. Krutkov stated the obvious in that a classic mech brigade in his battlefield is inoperable w/o UAVs/UGVs. Kamyshin attributed 95% of mech losses/kills to UAVs; he highlighted the diversity and evolution of drone roles stating that during just one night drone interceptors prevented 76 Russian Shaheed variants reaching their targets. He put Ukraine's own drone production at 2 million in 2024 and stated that while they do use Chinese components still, they're not indispensable or irreplaceable to them anymore.

Freuding addressed how Ukraine has employed asymmetries during Russia's aggression, namely in unmanned systems, cost effectiveness and tactics. These asymmetries themselves have pushed innovation while at its core, war remains the imposition of one's will upon another with violence. He expressed confidence in Europe's current readiness while being unwilling to "crystal ball" things. Kubilius, referring to the recent incursion of Russian drones into Poland explicitly, called EU counter-drone capabilities limited when faced with (in extremis) a scale in the millions. In his estimation the Eastern Shield initiative - including a "drone wall" - is a "must" and realizable (some kind of sufficient IOC?) within a year. He is impressed by the Ukrainian drone ecosystem and its unique procurement model. Any temptation to decrease investment even in the case of (a nominal) cease-fire or other arrangement must be fought as for the foreseeable future Russia will continue in a war time economy regardless. Ukraine's experience and companies will become part of the "next arsenal of democracy", being in a good position of benefitting from this investment. Kamyshin stated that Ukrainian companies are not driven by the profit motive for the time being (for obvious reasons) but sees potential for "ten unicorns at least" in the future.

This wasn't a comprehensive summary by any measure, just the things that got my attention on one viewing. My recollection and interpretation may vary. The Yalta European Strategy conference has posted many videos of their panels, worth a look for the interested.
 
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