Douglas Bird Dog?

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Sabrejet

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Does anyone have information regarding the Douglas Bird Dog air-to-air rocket? This weapon was inert- and live-fired by a Douglas detachment based at Edwards AFB and Inyokern in 1954/55.

I can't find any references at all beyond that. I suspect it was a pod-launched, unguided weapon and I'm assuming it didn't progress beyond the test phase.
 
Genie seems an unlikely fit; it would seem that up to six 'Bird Dogs' were being fired from one aircraft. Three QB-17Gs were downed during the trials; two from inert warheads and one live. Sadly that still doesn't tell me anything about the weapon though.
 
This is a report from the 3225th Drone Sqn (based at Point Mugu) detailing QB-17G drone s/n 44-83586 being flown on a Bird Dog sortie from NOTS Inyokern (China Lake) on 21 April 1955. This was a mission against a single firing aircraft, with six rockets launched (all missed!). I suspect anything beyond an unguided air-to-air rocket would have been described as a 'missile', hence my assumption that it may have been pod-launched etc.

001.jpg
 
Hm. Interesting. Are there any data what was the launch platform?

Sabrejet said:
I suspect anything beyond an unguided air-to-air rocket would have been described as a 'missile',
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Well, the number "six" correlate with the number of GAR-1 Falcon missiles, that F-89H could carry. And the time (April 1955) is correlating rather good with F-89H & GAR-1 development.
 
Sabrejet said:
Launched from F-86E and F-86D.
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Kinda strange combination - F-86E wasn't designed to serve as interceptor, and did not have automatic fire control like F-86D, so it hardly could be used as rocket-armed platform. And F-86D did not have any hardpoint, so the only way to launch any kind of rocket from it was to load it into ventral rocket bay.
 
Could have been a test as part of the Genie effort using some other surrogate rocket to work on something like fire control/aiming techniques.
 
To summarize, we have a set of problems:

* The codename "Bird Dog" is among the ones used for AIR-2 "Genie" nuclear rocket early in development.
* Also this codename was since 1950s used for a Cessna O-1 observation plane.
* Six rockets were fired from four passes, which (if it really was a single fighter) indicate the small size of rocket.
* F-86E have four underwing hardpoints, and aren't exactly the good rocket-launching platform due to the lack of collision course attack capability (F-86E lacked the required automatic fire control system)
* F-86D did not have hardpoints at all, and therefore the rocket in question must be installed in the modified weapon bay (and considering that weapon bay was part of the engine air intake, the rocket size must be limited.
 
TomS said:
Could have been a test as part of the Genie effort using some other surrogate rocket to work on something like fire control/aiming techniques.
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Hm. A good idea! Interesting to point, that while it was stated that the target was undamaged, it was not stated that the rockets missed. If those were a substitutes of AIR-2 Genie, it make sense; the rockets came close enough to the target to ensure a "nuclear kill".
 
All rockets were launched from pylons. Numerous test F-86E and F-86D were used in pylon-mounted firings of a similar nature (Mighty Mouse pods on F-86D as well as Falcon and Sidewinder on F-86D for example). In the case of Bird Dog, both aircraft were bailed to Douglas for these tests. So not in-service installations, rather test vehicles to allow the rockets to be fired air-to-air against representative targets. It's probably noteworthy that the targets in all of the tests were QB-17Gs (i.e. bombers) and not QF-80s.

However it's the rocket rather than the aircraft I needed info on. Other reports in the series mention the rockets being fired in salvo, and I don't think that would tally with a Genie scenario. I imagined something more along the lines of Gimlet.
 
Sabrejet said:
Numerous test F-86E and F-86D were used in pylon-mounted firings of a similar nature (Mighty Mouse pods on F-86D as well as Falcon and Sidewinder on F-86D for example)
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Er... If I'm not mistaken, basic F-86D never carried Sidewinders. The F-86F (a modified version of F-86D for export customers, armed with guns instead of rockets) have them, but they have hardpoints. There were some experimental attempt to fit GAR-1 Falcons onboard specifically modified pilon-equipped F-86D (serial 53-4061), but they never went out of testing stage.
 
I don't really want to get into a debate about Sabres, but numerous nations operated Sidewinder-equipped F-86Ds. The F-86F was an outgrowth of the A/E family of day fighters, not a modified version of the D, which evolved separately as an interceptor development of the A model.

As mentioned above, the Douglas-bailed F-86E and D were test aircraft. They were modified to pylon-launch Bird Dog.
 
Just wanted to bump this: Can anyone help? Sounds like it was a tube-launched (possibly), multiple air-to-air rocket. Not sure if it was the precursor of anything but who knows?
 
Dilandu said:
Sabrejet said:
Numerous test F-86E and F-86D were used in pylon-mounted firings of a similar nature (Mighty Mouse pods on F-86D as well as Falcon and Sidewinder on F-86D for example)
Click to expand...
Er... If I'm not mistaken, basic F-86D never carried Sidewinders. The F-86F (a modified version of F-86D for export customers, armed with guns instead of rockets) have them, but they have hardpoints. There were some experimental attempt to fit GAR-1 Falcons onboard specifically modified pilon-equipped F-86D (serial 53-4061), but they never went out of testing stage.
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The F-86Ls sent by MAP to Thailand carried AIM-9s, They had 4-pylon wings. I seem to recall that the Republic of Korea flew AIM-9 equipped D models.
The L was a D model upgraded to be compatible with SAGE, It also was fitted with the same wing as the F-86F-40 (6-3 Leading edge extension with slats, a 2 foot span increase, and 4 pylons.
All of the Day Fighter F-86s (A, E, F, H) had 8 zero-length launchers for 5" HVARS. As, Es, and early Fs had 2 pylons, usually carrying drop tanks, but wired for bombs. Ds had the same 2 pylon setup. Late model Fs ans the Hs had 4 pylon wings.
A number of various models were bailed to contractors for weapon development testing, and they were, of course, used for USAF testing at Eglin and Kirtland.
So, it's not impossible for a D model to be carrying some experimental weapon.
 
ASTIA 34 (Armed Services Technical Information Agency) is entitled T2Q60 fuze performance during bird dog rocket flight tests. This covers 21 test-firings at NOTS Inyokern from 09 March to 16 July 1955.


Alas, it doesn't say much about the rockets themselves: "Bird Dog is a non guided, proximity-fuzed missile intended for air-to-air interception of enemy bombers. The rocket is launched at a range of approximately 2,500 to 4,500 feet, and accelerates to the target. The primary function of the fuze is to detonate the rocket warhead at the instant of optimum-kill probability for all angles of attack. The fuze is a fixed-angle, frequency-modulated, microwave, proximity type."

For more details on the Bird Dogs, readers were referred to ...

T2060 Fuze for the Bird Dog Rocket, Phase 1 Summary Report, DOFL Report PR-56-16, 25 April 1956, Secret. and Safety and Arming Device for the T2060 Fuze, DOFL Report TR-191, 10 July 1955, Confidential.

The text does make clear what interceptor types were used:

"3-3 Rocket Launch Data

The interceptor aircraft approached the type QB-17 drone target aircraft in an approximately level tail or level team attack. All tail attacks were made with an F-86E aircraft using a type A-4 airborne fire-control system. The beam attacks were made with an F-86D aircraft using an E-4 airborne fire-control system. The firecontrol systems were modified for use with Bird Dog rockets. Each fighter could carry four rockets."
 
Can you attach the ASTIA report? The link doesn't work for me. The aircraft comprised one F-86D and one F-86E. I requested access to one doc late last year (FOIA) but am still awaiting it. Thanks for the inputs: I knew there was more to this!
 
Thanks. That's the one I requested to be released! They'd obviously done it but not told me. Ah well I shall have a read. I guess the only question then is did it ever go into production?
 
P-STICKNEY said:
Dilandu said:
Sabrejet said:
Numerous test F-86E and F-86D were used in pylon-mounted firings of a similar nature (Mighty Mouse pods on F-86D as well as Falcon and Sidewinder on F-86D for example)
Click to expand...
Er... If I'm not mistaken, basic F-86D never carried Sidewinders. The F-86F (a modified version of F-86D for export customers, armed with guns instead of rockets) have them, but they have hardpoints. There were some experimental attempt to fit GAR-1 Falcons onboard specifically modified pilon-equipped F-86D (serial 53-4061), but they never went out of testing stage.
Click to expand...
The F-86Ls sent by MAP to Thailand carried AIM-9s, They had 4-pylon wings. I seem to recall that the Republic of Korea flew AIM-9 equipped D models.
The L was a D model upgraded to be compatible with SAGE, It also was fitted with the same wing as the F-86F-40 (6-3 Leading edge extension with slats, a 2 foot span increase, and 4 pylons.
All of the Day Fighter F-86s (A, E, F, H) had 8 zero-length launchers for 5" HVARS. As, Es, and early Fs had 2 pylons, usually carrying drop tanks, but wired for bombs. Ds had the same 2 pylon setup. Late model Fs ans the Hs had 4 pylon wings.
A number of various models were bailed to contractors for weapon development testing, and they were, of course, used for USAF testing at Eglin and Kirtland.
So, it's not impossible for a D model to be carrying some experimental weapon.
Click to expand...
Not quite: the L wing was strictly single-station; the Sidewinder fit added a second inboard station to both F-86D and L as part of a retrofit T.O. The wing shape is similar to F-40 but the D and L have leading-edge anti-ice.

Day fighter F-86A/E and early F had single-store pylons which were only stressed and equipped for fuel tanks. Bomb-carrying was via an inboard pylon on later F-86F, which could also carry a 120-gallon tank in the ferry config or an asymmetric nuke load.
 
Dilandu said:
Er... If I'm not mistaken, basic F-86D never carried Sidewinders. The F-86F (a modified version of F-86D for export customers, armed with guns instead of rockets) have them, but they have hardpoints. There were some experimental attempt to fit GAR-1 Falcons onboard specifically modified pilon-equipped F-86D (serial 53-4061), but they never went out of testing stage.
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The F-86K was the gun-armed F-86D for NATO and other export customers (but the F-86D was soon exported as they were replaced by F-89s, F-101s, F-102s, etc).
 
A little history. The F-86D was initially proposed as either a rocket-armed or cannon-equipped interceptor. Even after approval of the Mighty Mouse F-86D mockup the cannon armament was considered an option for production F-86Ds until the rocket option proved itself. A forward fuselage F-86D/cannon combination was constructed by NAA and test-fired.

Other proposals for the F-86D were a 'wet' (fuel tank) wing leading edge, which eventually went into production as a 'dry' '6-3' wing (and retrofit) for F-86Fs and was later considered (but not adopted) when the upgraded F-86D (F-86L) was being defined.

Ultimately the cannon installation went into the F-86K and the 'wet' leading edge went into production on later CAC-built Sabres.

Meanwhile, when a "European MAP" fighter was being discussed, the first draft of Contract AF-22305 (for the first 300 F-86Hs) included provision for, "125 to be procured as USAF airplanes to be produced on the FY 1953 program and for 180 MDAP [Mutual Defense Assistance Program] airplanes to be procured on the FY 1954 program" (note that this gives a total of 305, not 300).
 

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