Dornier Do 435 with bubble canopy

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Hi
I have tried to find potential primary source material to support the infamous Do 435 design with a bubble canopy. Supposedly it was planned with two Jumo 222s and had an extended fuselage. Any idea where this design comes from? Hans Redemann probably mentioned it back in 1972/73. Modern literally describes the 435 as either a two seater 335, or as a version with hybrid propulsion.
Best
Kris
Do-435.jpg
 
These drawings are very confusing. The original, autumn 1943 Do 435/Do-P 238 concept was for side-by-side 2-seat night fighter/all-weather interceptor featured long-span wooden wings on a Do 335 fuselage. Twin 2,500 hp Jumo 222A-2s are the mentioned powerplants.

Yet both drawings show a single-seat under a 'bubble' canopy. And hesham's spec table lists both Jumo 213s and Jumo 222s but with the standard Do 335 span of 13.80 m. I get that the fuselage must be stretched to accommodate sufficient fuel for Jumo 222s but why the standard wings?
 
These drawings are very confusing. The original, autumn 1943 Do 435/Do-P 238 concept was for side-by-side 2-seat night fighter/all-weather interceptor featured long-span wooden wings on a Do 335 fuselage. Twin 2,500 hp Jumo 222A-2s are the mentioned powerplants.

Yet both drawings show a single-seat under a 'bubble' canopy. And hesham's spec table lists both Jumo 213s and Jumo 222s but with the standard Do 335 span of 13.80 m. I get that the fuselage must be stretched to accommodate sufficient fuel for Jumo 222s but why the standard wings?
Indeed. According to Manfred Griehl's book, the Do 435 was simply a two seater. Plenty of literature also allocates the 435 to piston/ jet hybrids. On Wikipedia Redemann is quoted as source for the bubble canopy version. I'm trying to get a hold of his original publications (1972 and 1973).
 
Indeed. According to Manfred Griehl's book, the Do 435 was simply a two seater. Plenty of literature also allocates the 435 to piston/ jet hybrids. On Wikipedia Redemann is quoted as source for the bubble canopy version. I'm trying to get a hold of his original publications (1972 and 1973).
Indeed, confusion reigns on the Do-435 (problem of paper planes ...) and we find this on the net. There is no source cited, so what credit should be given to this description ?

 
As far as I remember, this variant with a bubble canopy was described as a postwar fantasy in one of Monogram's books (either the Do 335 monograph, either Griehl's "Jet Planes of the Third Reich").
Yes, Griehl describes it as a potential post war fantasy in his book. I was hoping to clarify the origin.
 
Yes, Griehl describes it as a potential post war fantasy in his book. I was hoping to clarify the origin.
To drive the nail out of the confusion (!) we find pretty lines giving the illusion of a perfect mastery of the subject without it being specified as Justo MIranda does that these are only very speculative representations! (I do not know if these drawings have not already appeared here in another forum ... ;) ).
 

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To drive the nail out of the confusion (!) we find pretty lines giving the illusion of a perfect mastery of the subject without it being specified as Justo MIranda does that these are only very speculative representations! (I do not know if these drawings have not already appeared here in another forum ... ;) ).
Yes. That's why I was looking for a primary source of some kind. Maybe there is none left.
Cheers guys!
 
It seems that Dan Sharp also came to the same conclusion. Quote: There is clearly a mismatch between the two versions of the Do 335 and until further evidence emerges it does not seem possible, even more than seven decades on, to firmly pin down exactly what the Do 435 was (Luftwaffe, Secret Designs of the Third Reich).
The bubble canopy design was not even part of the discussion.
 
Dornier P.238​

The Dornier Do 335 was a formidable combat machine, with a great development potential that was interrupted by the end of the WWII.

The push-pull formula, combined with the use of different types of engines, proved that it could satisfy the main needs of the Luftwaffe by the end of 1943.

- Conventional night fighter (Do 435 C-1, C-2, D-1 & D-2)

- Mixed power night fighter (Do 335 A&B)

- Antitank, zerstörer and fighter bomber (Do 335 B-2, B-1 & A-1)

- Light bomber (Do 335 A-2)

- Trainer (Do 335 B-5)

- Recce (Do 435 B-4)

- High altitude Recce (Do 335 B-4)

- Long range Recce (Do 335 Z)

This design served as the base for the four engine, 8,000 km range, Junkers Ju 635 bomber.

The last push-pull Dornier was the P.238 that derived from the Do 435 with elongated fuselage of up to 17.10 m. and Jumo 222 E/F engines.

The P.238/1 had the wing and tail surfaces of a standard Do 335 and it was presented in two versions: zerstörer (A-1) and fighter bomber (B-1).

The P.238/2 had the new wing with a 18.33 m span designed by Heinkel for the Do 335 B-4 and it was presented in the escort fighter version (A-2) and high altitude interceptor (B-2) capable to face the Boeing B-29 of the Allies.

There are some night fighter versions, as the time when the project was presented the old Hirschgeweigh antennae of the Lichtenstein radar had been replaced by parabolic ones, designed to be installed on the nose cone of the aircraft. And this was not possible in the P.238.

For this reason, and for the excessive drag produced by the frontal cooler, the manufacturing of the Do 435 has already been discarded on 28 August 1944. By the end of that year, the Dornier Project Office decided to interrupt the push-pull developments in favour of the P.247 and P.252 projects, which possessed more advanced aerodynamics and allowed higher speed and the installation of last generation radars.

Technical Data







Typesingle seat zerstörer, escort fighter and high altitude interceptor
AirframeLight alloy structure and cladding with wooden outer wings panels in the P.238/2
CockpitPressurised, control heating, frontal armour against 12.7 mm shelling and from the rear against 20 mm. Heinkel kartusche ejector seat
UndercarriageTricycle type. The main legs retracted inwards and the front gear retractable to the rear after switching 90º to lie flat in the wheel bay
EngineTwo (tractor and pusher) Jumo 222 E/F, 24 cylinder supercharged, liquid cooled, Star with six banks of four cylinder each and 2,465 hp. (3,000 with MW-50 injection) at take-off, driving two Junkers VS-19 four blade airscrews with a 3.60 m. diameter and fed by two stage, three speeds superchargers with three intercoolers each.
ArmamentTwo MG 151/20 (synchro) cannons in the fuselage and two MK 103/30 cannons in the wings.
Wingspan13.80 m. (P.238/1) 18.33 m (P.238/2)
Length17.10 m
Height5.30 m
Wing area38.50 sq. m (P.238/1) 51 sq. m (P.238/2)
Estimated Max speed800 km/h (P.238/1) 770 km/h (P.238/2)
Service ceiling14,000 m (P.238/2)
ElectronicsOne EZ42 gyro-gunsight, FuG 16 ZY VHF transmitter/receiver, FuG 25a IFF radio set, FuG 125, K23 automatic pilot.
 

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For those interested; I was in touch with the Dornier Museum. The kind lady working there could only confirm that numerous documents were deliberately burned. She als mentioned that some documents remain at the Deutsches Museum in Munich. Likely that is where I live. So I will definitely plan a visit.
 
For those interested; I was in touch with the Dornier Museum. The kind lady working there could only confirm that numerous documents were deliberately burned. She als mentioned that some documents remain at the Deutsches Museum in Munich. Likely that is where I live. So I will definitely plan a visit.
For curiosity, did the lady at the Dornier Museum indicate when those documents were burned, i.e. immediately before the arrival of US forces near the end of WWII, or at some later point in time?
 
For curiosity, did the lady at the Dornier Museum indicate when those documents were burned, i.e. immediately before the arrival of US forces near the end of WWII, or at some later point in time?
She said '...am Ende des 2. Weltkrieges'.
So 'at the end of WWII'. Which I would interpret before the arrival of allied forces.
 
Dornier Do-435 model by Ken Stuhr (flyboyken on RC Groups)


Posting some pics of what would have been an ultimate warbird, the Dornier Do 435. There were many derivative versions of the DO 335 drawn, with none actually built. This derivative was published in an older issue of Flug Revue which I happened to come across at the time. Derivative is almost a misnomer, as this was almost a completely new airplane.

The most common part was the wing, which was basically the wing from the D0 335 but with a stretch to increase span. This planform is shown in William Green’s book Warplanes of the Third Reich, as it was also intended for less advanced derivatives of the 335.

Coupling this wing with the other features of the 435 made good sense though. The longer fuselage carried one pilot but retained the push-pull engine arrangement. Increased length was needed just to house engines and give fuel capacity. And what engines these were! Jumo 222s were just developing at the end of the war. 2500 HP each, minimum, without turbocharging, which this airplane would have incorporated given its mission. So in the power arena, we see roughly double the installed power of the base model 335.

The mission for the type is clear: interceptor. Had the war gone on, B-29s would have approached targets at 25,000 ft at speeds of 330 kts. The Do 435 could have taken the fight to that altitude and much farther West of the “Fatherland” than earlier B-17 intercepts. Considering the installed power and design cleanliness, I think this airplane could have topped 480 MPH at altitude.

For this and many other reasons, good thing the Germans ran out of fuel, men, and ideas about that time. It would have been an awesome airplane.

Now the model:

Span 48”
Flying weight 42 ozs
Wing Section SD6060
Motors 2-Axi 2212/34
Propellers Master Airscrew 9” 3 blade 1 tractor 1 pusher
Battery 2-1200 3s Li-poly in parallel
Max current 9A x 2 = 18A Cruise current ~ 9A
Typ flight time ~ 10 mins
Controls 3ch Ail-Elev-Throttle

This is an all-balsa model. The wing is built up rib and sheet construction, using epoxy glass strengthening, 2 layers of ¾ oz overall. The fuse was strip planked and also glassed. It’s a belly lander and no, the lower fin has never broken off, because it's got up to 10 lams of glass cloth to beef it up.

The paint is Testors plastic model stuff, applied with a Binks airbrush. If you want the specific colors, let me know. Have to look them up. Panel line detail was added to the primer phase using striping tape.

It’s a rather old model, first flying in 2006 I think. Flies great! Its light enough to not have any vices and is very smooth and can be fast. Mostly though, it just looks so different that I really like flying it. Plus there’s no torque effect.
 

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Hi
I have tried to find potential primary source material to support the infamous Do 435 design with a bubble canopy. Supposedly it was planned with two Jumo 222s and had an extended fuselage. Any idea where this design comes from? Hans Redemann probably mentioned it back in 1972/73. Modern literally describes the 435 as either a two seater 335, or as a version with hybrid propulsion.
Best
Kris
View attachment 707988

You may als have a look at post #137 onwards in this discussion:
 

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