DDG-1000

TomS

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I think people were really confused about the purpose of those small-caliber guns on the DD-21 design. They were never meant to be anti-ship missile defense weapons. As noted, that was ESSM and decoys (made much more effective by the ship's very small RCS).

The Navy refered to the small-caliber guns as Close-In Gun Systems, which is distinct from Close-In Weapon Systems. CIGS is intended for engaging swarming small boats, with helos and UAVs as secondary targets. The 30mm was always considered adequate for this--it was offered on one of the initial DD-21 proposals (the winner offered 40mm Bofors). The 57mm was a late change in the first place, mainly for commonality with LCS, and was never seen as a core capability for the ship.
 

Abraham Gubler

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Asmd is layered: essm stand off kinetic kill, decoys, ecm, sig mngt and finally an inner layer system for when all else fails. Even if you have awesome sig mngt and great essm you need a dinal layer. Why phalanx has been put back on DDG 51 and why the lack of such on DDG 1000 is being an issue. 57mm 3p is designed and purchased to be an asmd weapon. Mk 295 mod 1 is designed to provide asmd with a guided shell with IIR fusing.
 

Moose

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Abraham Gubler said:
Asmd is layered: essm stand off kinetic kill, decoys, ecm, sig mngt and finally an inner layer system for when all else fails. Even if you have awesome sig mngt and great essm you need a dinal layer. Why phalanx has been put back on DDG 51 and why the lack of such on DDG 1000 is being an issue. 57mm 3p is designed and purchased to be an asmd weapon. Mk 295 mod 1 is designed to provide asmd with a guided shell with IIR fusing.
I have no objection to the Phalanx mounts being added back to the Flight IIA-onward Burke class, but it was omitted from them for the same reason it was omitted from Zumwalt: the Navy believed it didn't offer enough benefit over the ESSM to justify the cost (in money, weight, crew workload, etc). And if it were just down to missile defense, they wouldn't have added the guns back. It took Raytheon and the program office seriously expanding the guns' utility in other roles to prompt the Navy to that decision.

As I said, if in testing they decide that a gun-based CIWS inner, inner layer is warranted then one will be added. Or they may fit a stealthy RAM turret instead. Or a laser turret. The Mk 110 mounts intended for the Zumwalt never had an air/missile defense role for the class, the ORKA round was not even a concept when the design was being finalized.
 

Abraham Gubler

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It was never a case of essm or ciws/ ram but rather with essm and a tight budget and no soviet union we can get away without ciws/ram. As to mk 295 mod 1 this development is in response to the lack of lethality in mod 0 ie 3p. As to the 57mm not ever being a part of the ddg 1000 aaw system that would not quite explain why it was going to be part of the aaw cms
 

JFC Fuller

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Because it isn't just an AAW CMS, its multi-function/domain. The 57mm on the DDG1000 was always intended primarily as a close-in anti-surface weapon, sure you can point it at and fire it at incoming missiles and aircraft but that was not its intended primary role (you can do the same thing with the 5") which was in part why the weapon was dropped from DDG1000 and replaced by the thus far also absent 30mm.
 

bobbymike

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Expensive platform for this mission ;D but 'way to go Navy'

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/12/12/new-stealth-destroyer-helps-rescue-maine-fisherman/77205428/
 

marauder2048

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bobbymike said:
Expensive platform for this mission ;D but 'way to go Navy'

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/12/12/new-stealth-destroyer-helps-rescue-maine-fisherman/77205428/
Sure to be denounced as "predictable requirements creep."
 

donnage99

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For some reason reminds me of a certain politician who in an paid effort to save the f-22 production line at the time, suggested that we should use f-22 to catch pirates on fishing boats.
 

Grey Havoc

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http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Raytheon_wins_255_million_contract_for_USS_Lyndon_B_Johnson_999.html
 

TomS

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According to the Navy, the new class of destroyers will be able to triple naval surface fire coverage, while also tripling anti-ship cruise missile capabilities.
This is badly written. What the Navy'd DDG-1000 fact sheet says is "tripling capability against anti-ship cruise missiles," which is a different matter altogether.
 

Grey Havoc

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KAWbwttAoI&feature=player_embedded
https://gcaptain.com/2016/01/06/watch-u-s-navys-new-zumwalt-destroyer-entering-portland-harbor​
 

marauder2048

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DDG 1000 On Track For Delivery In April

01/14/2016

The Navy’s first Zumwalt-class destroyer (DDG-1000) will return to the seas for builder’s trials in about a month’s time, and the General Dynamics [GD] Bath Iron Works ship is on schedule for delivery on April 25, a program official said Jan. 14.

Rear Adm. David Gale, the Navy’s program executive officer for ships, said the Zumwalt “performed exquisitely” in its first trip out to sea during December, a weeklong event that culminated in the rescue of a Maine fisherman who was having health problems.
The first of the Zumwalt class of destroyers, the DDG-1000. Photo: Dana Rene, special to Defense Daily.The first of the Zumwalt class of destroyers, the DDG-1000. Photo: Dana Rene, special to Defense Daily.

“There were some lessons learned,” he said in a speech at the Surface Navy Association’s national symposium. “There were some things we need to go work on, but nothing that we can't overcome will prevent us from delivering that ship by 25 April of this year. We've got work to do, a lot of coordination, a lot of teamwork to get that done."

After delivery, the Zumwalt will be turned over to Capt. James Kirk and his crew for training and qualification, Gale said. The commissioning of the ship is tentatively scheduled for October in Baltimore, Md.

The DDG 1000 is the Navy’s largest destroyer ever built and contains a host of advanced technologies. The design features a radar cross section more akin to a fishing boat, and its integrated power system allows operators to shift energy from one part of the ship to another. The latter capability could become critical if technologies such as the rail gun, which consumes vast amounts of power, become prevalent on ships.

During its week at sea, the crew demonstrated a variety of the Zumwalt’s shipboard systems, including its anchors, electric steering system and power handling and conditioning system, Rear Adm. Jim Downey, the Navy’s DDG-1000 program manager, said during a briefing Thursday afternoon. Its integrated power system ran 33 knots at full power, and its power generators met its goals for the sea trials. The ship also successfully deployed and recovered 11 mm rigid inflatable boats (RIB).

"We saw eight to 10 foot seas,” he said. "The ship performed extremely well. We ran up full power and full rudder swings, 35 degree of rudder swings in each direction."

Though unexpected, the rescue effort provided a showcase for the ship’s handling capabilities, he said.

"We steamed over there at full plant, got some good data on an unplanned two-hour power ride, and we launched our RIB,” he said. “It was 12 minutes from the launch of the RIB until they got to the vessel, got the person aboard and got back."

Kirk, who was present for the briefing, said the ship “handled marvelously,” comparing the difference in steering a DDG-1000 and DDG-51 as being similar to driving a smaller sedan versus a larger one.

Tests of the ship’s Advanced Gun System, built by BAE Systems, will start after the DDG-1000 has arrived in San Diego, Downey said. There, the ship will also be upgraded with the eighth release of software.

Radar modifications on AN/SPY-3 X band radar, manufactured by Raytheon [RTN], have continued to progress. The radar will move onto the Self Defense Test ship soon, he said.

The USS Michael Monsoor (DDG-1001) is 84 percent complete. All mission systems have been installed, and it is scheduled to be launched in June, he said. The third ship in the class, USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG-1002) 43 percent complete.
http://www.defensedaily.com/ddg-1000-on-track-for-delivery-in-april/?fullview=1

"The ship also successfully deployed and recovered 11 mm rigid inflatable boats (RIB)." -> I guess they were rescuing ants.
 

bobbymike

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Sorry couldn't help myself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ffj8SHrbk0

The DDG-1000 has to be at least three times bigger than this
 

sferrin

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Grey Havoc said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KAWbwttAoI&feature=player_embedded
https://gcaptain.com/2016/01/06/watch-u-s-navys-new-zumwalt-destroyer-entering-portland-harbor​
Looks like they still haven't installed the VLS systems up front. (Looks like a pretty smooth surface on the two raised areas where the cells go.)
 

TomS

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I'm sure I've seen pictures of the modules installed but I can't find them now. I think there might be a plate over the hatch covers (maybe for RCS reduction?)
 

Moose

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The Mk 57 modules are already in place, the clean look was an effort to reduce RCS.
 

bobbymike

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http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/tech/2016/02/14/navy-considers-railgun-zumwalt-class-destroyer/80374120/
 

Grey Havoc

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http://news.usni.org/2016/03/03/new-external-ddg-1000-mast-reduces-ships-stealth-from-original-design

This could go very badly indeed.
 

sferrin

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Grey Havoc said:
http://news.usni.org/2016/03/03/new-external-ddg-1000-mast-reduces-ships-stealth-from-original-design

This could go very badly indeed.
Why? While reduced RCS is a feature it wasn't ever relying on it. (Maybe that means they'll put some actual CIWS on it, but more likely they'll just let it remain a white elephant. Such a shame. The class could have been the backbone of the fleet going forward.)
 

TomS

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If they're still hitting the Threshold requirement, the signature reduction is still rather dramatic compared to previous surface combatants.
 

Avimimus

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donnage99 said:
For some reason reminds me of a certain politician who in an paid effort to save the f-22 production line at the time, suggested that we should use f-22 to catch pirates on fishing boats.
See the M61A2 almost paid off!

Seriously though - in Canada the F-35 was pitched as a Search and Rescue aircraft (as well as a maritime patrol aircraft). It is amazing what politicians will sometimes suggest!

The DDG-1000 can actually fulfil these missions quite well though (and a lot of other more impressive missions)!
 

Tony Williams

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Avimimus said:
donnage99 said:
For some reason reminds me of a certain politician who in an paid effort to save the f-22 production line at the time, suggested that we should use f-22 to catch pirates on fishing boats.
Seriously though - in Canada the F-35 was pitched as a Search and Rescue aircraft (as well as a maritime patrol aircraft). It is amazing what politicians will sometimes suggest!
The opposite approach was taken by the British government when they scrapped the Nimrod MRP in 2010: they claimed that it could be replaced by a Hercules transport manned by men with binoculars.... :eek:
 

fredymac

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Heading out again for sea trials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VgUv9H_E3w
 

fredymac

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You may want to turn off the audio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDiN3tB3YLk
 

bobbymike

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http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense-news/2016/03/31/zumwalt-sea-trials-bath-iron-works-ddg1000-navy-navsea/82456618/
 

TomS

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"All ahead one third on the starboard shaft.” The order was called out by the Bath Iron Works (BIW) conning officer
God, I hope not. "All ahead" means both shafts. The proper order is "Starboard ahead one third. "
 

bobbymike

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http://www.defensenews.com/videos/defense-news/tv/2016/04/03/defense-news-tv-inside-the-destroyer-zumwalt/82585250/

Exclusive first pictures from the inside, what a beautiful ship.
 

TomS

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There is an amazing amount of open space in this ship. Given the cost amd volume issues with the Burke Flight IIIs, the Navy must be seriously wondering if sticking with the DDG-1000 might not have been a better move long term.
 

sferrin

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TomS said:
There is an amazing amount of open space in this ship. Given the cost amd volume issues with the Burke Flight IIIs, the Navy must be seriously wondering if sticking with the DDG-1000 might not have been a better move long term.
When it comes time to replace the Ticos I'll bet they look at that hull REAL hard. (And then moan about how it's costs have exploded, mystified as to how it happened.) I thought the well-deck and amount of hangar space was interesting. I think the USN hasn't done a real good job of selling this hull. When railguns and DEWs come online in the coming years the Zumwalts will be the only surface combatants ready for them. They make me think about the Spruance class when it first came out. Big giant ship with little in the way of weapons. Then they got a pair of Phalanx, a VLS system, Harpoon cannisters. . . They were excellent ships by the time the Navy decided to use them for target practice.
 

bobbymike

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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/08/all-three-zumwalt-class-destroyers-assigned-to-pacific-carter.html
 

bobbymike

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http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/tech/2016/04/10/how-stealthy-navys-new-destroyer-needs-reflectors/82865356/
 

TomS

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bobbymike said:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/04/08/all-three-zumwalt-class-destroyers-assigned-to-pacific-carter.html
No shock here -- a class of three ships with a large number of unique systems to support, were never going to be based in more than one homeport.
 

covert_shores

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Anyone know the dimensions and weight limitations of the stern boat launch system? Looks big in the internal photos. Wondering if it can handle more than just the obvious RIBs.
 

TomS

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The 11-meter RHIBs are 3.2 meters wide, and about 8 tons. By the looks of it that's about the max size that would fit. I would hope they could fit the CUSV unmanned vehicle as well.
 

bobbymike

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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/16/us-navy-poised-to-take-ownership-of-its-largest-destroyer.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm
 

bobbymike

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http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/inside-americas-lethal-new-stealth-destroyer-16306
 

bobbymike

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http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dd21
 

marauder2048

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DDG-1000 Presentation from Surface Navy Association 2016 (disregard the date on the opening slide)

Slide 6 seems to support TomS supposition that they had enough RCS margin above the threshold requirement to tolerate the steel superstructure.
 

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