• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Dassault Variable Geometry: Mirage G / G4 /G8 family

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is an editorial in French about the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G4 "project" and its prospects as a competitor to the (then) MRCA-75......

The article comes from the 1st October 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here are a couple of pieces in French about the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype and the planned development of new variable-geometry aircraft......

The first piece comes from an article on variable-geometry in general......

The second piece mentions a SNECMA/Pratt & Whitney TF-306 turbofan-powered Mirage G2 "project" with a carrier-borne Mirage GM derivative "project". It also mentions ongoing development of the all-French twin SNECMA Atar 9K50 turbojet-powered Mirage G4 "project" and eventual use of the SNECMA M-53 single-shaft modular turbofan in the Mirage G4 (qv http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12632.0.html )......

They come from the 15th May 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is advertisement in French proclaiming the high speed and field performance of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype......

Note the Mirage G is fitted with a different tail-fin tip design in this advertisement. At some time during flight-testing, the tail-fin was changed. Would anyone when and why this happened please?

The advertisement comes from the 15th June/1st July 1968 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French about the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G4 "project" (iilustrated by pictures of the Mirage G prototype and the Mirage F1). The article is interesting because it expresses (at this early stage in the programme) concern at the likely unit cost and weight (the same as the Mirage IV jet bomber) of any production Mirage G4. It also explains why the twin-engine Mirage G4 design is preferable to the single engine design already tested (Mirage G)......

The article comes from the 1st November 1968 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype with its original shape tail-fin (together with a Mirage F1) used to illustrate a feature on 15 years of Mirages......

The pictures come from the 15th May 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture with a caption in French about the end of official testing of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype and ongoing flight-testing as a two-seater......

The picture comes from the 15th January 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a magazine cover showing the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype (rear) flying in formation with the Mirage F2 prototype (middle) and the Mirage F1 prototype (front)......

The cover comes from the 15th July 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a little picture with a caption in French of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype at the 1969 Paris Salon (exhibited with the Milan prototype)......

The picture comes from the 15th June 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

Caravellarella

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
71
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a little picture with a caption in French of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G prototype; used to illustrate an article about future prospects for variable geometry with the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage G4 derivative "project"......

The picture comes from the 1st November 1968 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Attachments

H_K

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
24
Reaction score
4
There's a 58 page "General Briefing" on the Mirage G, which I'd love to post here. It's from the RAAF archives, and includes a few oversize pages (probably detailed technical drawings), as well as hopefully the 1969 flight test evaluation notes by Squadron Leader Fisher.


Copying costs are a bit steep - AU$77.50. :-\ Anyone interested in pitching in?

(I'm thinking of launching a small Kickstarter campaign - not sure if this has been tried before?)
 

Sundog

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
25
I think a Kickstarter campaign would be ideal. I'd pitch in.
 

H_K

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
24
Reaction score
4
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with esoteric interests. ;)


I'll post the Kickstarter link in a few days... as soon as Amazon get off their a** and validate the payments account!
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,370
Reaction score
587
I'm sure you can raise the needed funds if you offer PDFs to the contributors.
 

H_K

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
24
Reaction score
4
Just received my Mirage G documentation, courtesy of the Australian War Memorial archives (RAAF Aircraft R&D Unit records).


I was hoping this would be the full flight test report from Sqd Leader Fisher, who flew the Mirage G in Sep. 1969... since this report might include some interesting comparisons with the Mirage III and F-111. Unfortunately, it's *only* a 60-page Dassault briefing prior to Sqd Leader Fisher's test flights, detailing the flight envelope limitations and partial test results from the first 199 test flights. :'(


I might post some flight envelope data later. For now the most eye-popping data concerns low speed performance:


Take-off speed: 125 knots
Touchdown speed: 110 knots
Ground roll: "within 450 yards" (without use of the drag chute)
Minimum speed: 100 knots at 18 degree AoA... this was a 'soft' limit, because they hadn't yet done any low-speed stall testing to find out the true minimum!


The Mirage G's ground-roll distance in particular is amazing... implies STOL performance better than any supersonic fighter I know of. Better even than most subsonic designs, including carrier-capable designs like the A-6 Intruder and A-1 Skyraider. B)
 

Archibald

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
2,253
Reaction score
79
The fact is, there are not many single-jet VG aircrafts beside the Mirage G and (obviously) the Mig-23. The results are not that surprising - a big, powerful turbofan + near straight-wing VG = short take-off run.

For the record the Mirage G was destroyed in Istres two year later (January 23, 1971) with Jean Coureau ejecting safely.

Once again - it's a pity the French navy had no money for a M53 Mirage G...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: zen

sferrin

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
11,789
Reaction score
200
H_K said:
Just received my Mirage G documentation, courtesy of the Australian War Memorial archives (RAAF Aircraft R&D Unit records).


I was hoping this would be the full flight test report from Sqd Leader Fisher, who flew the Mirage G in Sep. 1969... since this report might include some interesting comparisons with the Mirage III and F-111. Unfortunately, it's *only* a 60-page Dassault briefing prior to Sqd Leader Fisher's test flights, detailing the flight envelope limitations and partial test results from the first 199 test flights. :'(


I might post some flight envelope data later. For now the most eye-popping data concerns low speed performance:


Take-off speed: 125 knots
Touchdown speed: 110 knots
Ground roll: "within 450 yards" (without use of the drag chute)
Minimum speed: 100 knots at 18 degree AoA... this was a 'soft' limit, because they hadn't yet done any low-speed stall testing to find out the true minimum!


The Mirage G's ground-roll distance in particular is amazing... implies STOL performance better than any supersonic fighter I know of. Better even than most subsonic designs, including carrier-capable designs like the A-6 Intruder and A-1 Skyraider. B)
I wonder how much that influenced Vought's decision to use the Mirage G as a takeoff point for their Tomcat competitor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zen

MIRAGE 4000

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
151
Reaction score
4
Hi friends ! :) :)
We publish this month the part of the history of Mirage G programs ... ;)
Bonne lecture !
 

Attachments

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,370
Reaction score
587
Awesome. Will have to buy a copy.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
5,689
Reaction score
217
Hi! Mirage G wind tunnel test model.

 

Attachments

galgot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
431
Reaction score
140
Website
galgot.com
Marcel presenting a Mirage G-4 model to Pierre Messmer at the Paris Air Show in May, 1969, Le Bourget :

gettyimages-500408378-2048x2048.jpg

And a Mirage G-2 (!) model , dialog is :
Messmer- "don't you have something cheaper ?"
Marcel- "Suuuuure ! Ahahaha..."

gettyimages-982428516-2048x2048.jpg
 
Last edited:

Archibald

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
2,253
Reaction score
79
Since then I got a glance at the Mirage F1 book by Liebert. Packed full with advanced Dassault designs. The French Navy actually considered a lot of VG designs.
 
Top