Choose a warship conversion

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Converting warships by adding armament or other facilities is a fascinating subject. My favourites are the US cruiser conversions to ship air defence missiles. My least liked are the Tiger class cruisers with helicopter shed and deck.
The conversion that I would love to have seen was a King George V or Vanguard with Seaslug. Not very practical but it would have been interesting.
So as the nights lengthen what are your choices?
 
Jean Bart turned aircraft carrier...
Or more Bearns, except more successfull. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandie-class_battleship
There were four more hulls on the slips, and the Wiki page offers some hindsight about getting 26 kt out of them. France could have build a significant fast carrier force, out of those hulls...

Jean Bart or Richelieu turned into a Moruroa support ship, rather than De Grasse 12 000 tons CL.

More Toulon scuttling survivors: Dunkerque, Strasbourg and Algérie BC / CA with MASURCA missile systems.
 
1960s or 70s conversion of the Des Moines class.

Remove the side 5" guns, replace with a pair of mk13 single arm launchers for SM1s (and Harpoons later), gives a magazine of 160 missiles(!). Stick a couple of Sea Sparrow boxes onto the 3"/50 AA mounts on each side, add 3x directors for the Sea Sparrows. Replace centerline 5" turrets with a 5"/54 Mk42 turret.

I should really chase down a plastic model of the Des Moines to do this.
 
Or more Bearns, except more successfull. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandie-class_battleship
There were four more hulls on the slips, and the Wiki page offers some hindsight about getting 26 kt out of them. France could have build a significant fast carrier force, out of those hulls...

No it couldn't.

Bearn was 22,146 tons standard displacement (down from 24,850 tons as planned as a battleship).

The 1922 Washington Treaty gave France a 60,000 ton carrier limit.
 
Erm... why do you need a magazine of 160 missiles and how exactly it would fit into the ship?
You may not need that much, but as for how it fits, the Mk13 is a direct drop in to the hole for the 5"/54 Mk42, which is a direct drop in to the hole for the 5"/38 twin mounts. The entire thing including the 40 round magazine fits into that circle! (edit: outer ring of 24 missiles, inner ring of 16 missiles)

A more possible version would be the Mk13s on the centerline and 5"/54s replacing the 5"/38s, but that may do weird things to topweight. IIRC the "Mk13 in a 5"/54 hole" swap ends up adding a deck in height

Edit: also, remember that the Mk13 is only holding Medium Range Standards, so that's basically still own-ship defense. The Des Memes have flag accommodations, so that's the last ditch "protect the admiral" work. And Standards do have a secondary antiship mode, which is going to hit pretty impressively. About like a 12" gun, IIRC.
 
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You may not need that much, but as for how it fits, the Mk13 is a direct drop in to the hole for the 5"/54 Mk42, which is a direct drop in to the hole for the 5"/38 twin mounts. The entire thing including the 40 round magazine fits into that circle! (edit: outer ring of 22 missiles, inner ring of 16 missiles)
24 missiles outer ring, 16 inner. That totals 40. ;)

The Mk22 in the Brooke class FFG-01>06 and the Spanish Baleares class FFGs (Knox with Mk22 instead of the helo hangar & Sea Sparrow) has just the inner ring - it was basically a drop-in for the single 5"/38 mount (the Brookes were basically Garcia FFs with the Mk22 instead of the amidship MK 30 5 inch/38 caliber gun mount).
 
Enough WWII fast battleships to assign one per forward-deployed fleet carrier, with the main-battery turrets removed and the freed-up topside weight-budget used for redundant radar systems and many 5" turrets and quad 40mm units.
 
Enough WWII fast battleships to assign one per forward-deployed fleet carrier, with the main-battery turrets removed and the freed-up topside weight-budget used for redundant radar systems and many 5" turrets and quad 40mm units.
Oh, you mean like the USS Kentucky proposal? Except that they installed turrets with 4x 8"/55 semi autos instead of the 3x 16" guns. Same guns as the Des Moines, so 10rds/min/gun.
 
Completely different concept to keep the main battery as anti-ship / bombardment, instead of making the ship singularly focused on AA.

The idea would be to try to move toward our fleet flattops being harder to kill with bombs and torpedoes.

Much easier after 1943 and proximity fuses, of course.
 
Completely different concept to keep the main battery as anti-ship / bombardment, instead of making the ship singularly focused on AA.

The idea would be to try to move toward our fleet flattops being harder to kill with bombs and torpedoes.

Much easier after 1943 and proximity fuses, of course.
Those 8" guns were quite capable of throwing proximity fused rounds. If you want shore bombardment, you want 16" tubes.
 
Lots of bombardment was done with 8 inch rounds. Medium caliber HC was more efficient (i.e. kills per ton thrown) than bigger stuff for killing soft targets such as aircraft/personnel/support equipment, less so for hard targets such as runways and AA emplacements. But the point here is not that.

8 inch guns...actually, any caliber above 5 inch...were ineffective as WWII AA, notwithstanding that they could fire shells that were capable of bringing down aircraft. Many guns of smaller caliber than 5 inch were ineffective as well. The technical issues were their maximum train/elevation rates, and their maximum elevation angle. AA guns that couldn't track the computed aim point for fast moving aircraft, and/or elevate to a high enough angle, were basically useless against that aircraft type once the enemy recognized the guns' limitations and adapted their attack trajectories to suit. Guns that were thought by surface-experienced admirals in the 1930s to offer good dual-purpose potential, quickly lost that potential as aircraft performance rapidly increased from the latter 1930s through the war years.

AA guns had to offer near-90-degree elevation, and high speed train and elevation, to be effective against 1941-1942 dive bombers and fighter-bombers utilizing high-speed attack trajectories. For the classic US 5 inch L/25, generally considered to be a pretty effective early war dual purpose gun, maximum elevation rate under local control (i.e. not limited by parameters of an RPC system) was 33 degrees/second. Maximum train rate was 22 degrees/second. Maximum elevation was 85 degrees. The classic US 5 inch L/38 was similar...same maximum elevation, a little less maximum elevation rate, a little more maximum train rate. OTOH, for the 8 inch L/55 Mark 16, maximum elevation rate was 8.2 degrees/second. Maximum train rate was 5 degrees/second. Maximum elevation was 41 degrees.
 
No it couldn't.

Bearn was 22,146 tons standard displacement (down from 24,850 tons as planned as a battleship).

The 1922 Washington Treaty gave France a 60,000 ton carrier limit.

A second one then. Would be 44 000 - something tons. Leaving 15 000 tons: enough for the Cdt Teste seaplane tender.
 
My favourite: HMS Furious. First whack at launching aircraft from a man-of-war. Second whack - and on - until a usable carrier resulted.
<edit> Oops. Eugene Ely flew off USS Birmingham in 1910.
Edwin Dunning was the first to land on a moving ship, though - 1917, on HMS Furious.
 

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As regards a conversion, I have to say the French cruiser Colbert, conversion from all-gun A.A. armament to Majorca S.A.M. Just a pity that the originally intended conversion was truncated to save money.
conversion (or modernisation?) the best of the lot has to be H.M.S. Victorious update from axial deck W.W.2. carrier to just about the most up-to-date ship possible after (far too many) years of conversion. It was just a pity that she was that little bit too small to really be able to handle the unforeseen rapid growth in size, weight and speed of modern Naval aircraft.
 
The conversion that I would love to have seen was a King George V or Vanguard with Seaslug. Not very practical but it would have been interesting.

You might enjoy this thread by Sunk at Narvik (Kitbasher on the BC Board) over on the NavWeaps Design a Ship/Navy board:


As Kitbasher, he has several threads on the BC Forum's Own Designs board


Regards,
 
So as the nights lengthen what are your choices?


If you've read any of the NavWeaps technical articles


you might recall the Richard "Dick" Landsgraff. Dick worked on the Iowas when they were reactivated in the 1980s. He once lamented the scrapping of the Alaskas, saying they would have been :good ships to turn into 'Tomahawk Shooters' (his term) as well. A hypothetical 80s update to Alaska, Guam and Hawaii has since fascinated me.

Regards,
 
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