Chinese CV Developments - CV-17 aka Type 001A class + future CVN

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kaiserbill

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

As stated in the Chinese carrier thread, there are reports that the purchase of the hulk of the Varyag also involved the blueprint drawings for an extra 2 million dollars.

Whether this was the blueprints of the Kuznetsov class or the larger follow on Ulyanovsk class, or both, nobody knows.
There are reports that Chinas next carrier will be based on the Ulyanovsk, built by the makers of their current carrier.
Ulyanovsk, which was laid down and 20% complete, was in the same class as the USN nuclear carriers.

Personally, I believe an Ulyanovsk variation will be built in China. Whether it will be the next carrier type built, or whether they will build a Kuznetsov vessel or two before then is open to speculation too.

IMHO, of course.

What is clear is that Liaoning is a training vessel.
This means others will follow.
 

Flyaway

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) deputy political commissar Rear Admiral Ding Haichun has confirmed that construction of China's first indigenous aircraft carrier is underway, according to the Hong Kong Commercial Daily newspaper, which interviewed several senior officers, including Rear Adm Ding, on the margins of the National People's Congress being held in Beijing.

Comments were also attributed to former PLAN Political Commissar Admiral Liu Xiaogang in which he said China's second carrier would be an improvement on the refurbished Soviet carrier Varyag , and that construction was now in the hands of industry. When asked how many carriers China would build, Adm Liu referred to speculation that the number would be six but added that it would depend upon the resources available.

In a separate report, the PLA Daily reported the successful development of an electromagnetic catapult, citing the assertion by the project leader, Rear Admiral Ma Weiming, that it is the equal of American designs.

More on the link.

http://www.janes.com/article/49879/china-working-on-second-carrier
 

kaiserbill

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Don't know how true that is, but it does make perfect sense now, seeing that Liaoning has been in commission since 2012.
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Maybe we can use this tread not only for Chinese CVN but also for CV-developments ...

As such surely not officially confirmed, but this is - and the Chinese members within the different forums are quite sure - the first image of the carrier CV-17 (= CV-001A class) currently under construction at Dalian !

Deino
 

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Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Even if Jane's does not believe this new ship to be a new carrier under construction (maybe someone - SOC ?? - can explain why they think NOT !?) here are two new Images ....

What do You think ?

Deino
 

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Moose

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

The Chinese forum comparison shot of this hull to the Ford under construction is nonsense. Might as well put a picture of a Walmart under construction next to a picture of the Freedom Tower being built, just because this hull has bulkheads and Ford has bulkheads doesn't mean they're both carriers.
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

I agree with You that so far it is too early to know, but I would like to know WHY Jane's decides that it does not look like a carrier ?

What certian structures or deails say it is None ??

Deino
 

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Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

.... a bit larger and clearer !
 

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Moose

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

That high angle shot has been doctored, which makes it hard to draw conclusions based on it. The other shots of the mystery hull aren't consistent with a Carrier based on the Liaoning, which was heavily observed via satellite during its construction in the Soviet Union, the configuration just doesn't match up.
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Moose said:
That high angle shot has been doctored, which makes it hard to draw conclusions based on it. The other shots of the mystery hull aren't consistent with a Carrier based on the Liaoning, which was heavily observed via satellite during its construction in the Soviet Union, the configuration just doesn't match up.

Do we have images of the Varyag under construction ??
 

Moose

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Deino said:
Moose said:
That high angle shot has been doctored, which makes it hard to draw conclusions based on it. The other shots of the mystery hull aren't consistent with a Carrier based on the Liaoning, which was heavily observed via satellite during its construction in the Soviet Union, the configuration just doesn't match up.

Do we imges of the Varyag under construction ??
"We" being whom? As I said the Soviet carriers were heavily observed from above, though most of those have not been made public you can find Riga (Varyag's brother) and the Kievs (the predecessor to the Admiral Kuznetsov class).
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Thanks You so much !!
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

A new image of that "thing" at Dalian ...
 

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Grey Havoc

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Something along the lines of a larger, more seaworthy Moskva analogue?
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

....
 

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Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

A few new images ....
 

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Grey Havoc

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

China says it is building its second aircraft carrier, this time with domestic technology (The Asahi Simbun)

Second carrier confirmed, but it's supposedly conventionally powered rather than nuclear.

BEIJING--China is building its second aircraft carrier, this time entirely with domestic technology, its Defense Ministry said Dec. 31, in a leap in its naval development that is increasingly tipping the regional balance of power.

The 50,000-ton vessel is being built in the northern port of Dalian and will be conventionally, rather than nuclear, powered, ministry spokesman Col. Yang Yujun told reporters at a news conference.

The yet-to-be-named vessel will carry J-15 fighter-bombers and other aircraft and use a ski jump mode for launching fixed-wing aircraft, Yang said. The J-15 is a copy of Russia's Sukhoi Su-33.
[snip]

EDIT: You just beat me to it, Geoff_B!
 

sferrin

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Does not compute. They're going to operate Flankers off a ship 15,000 tons smaller than the QEs? ???
 

Moose

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

sferrin said:
Does not compute. They're going to operate Flankers off a ship 15,000 tons smaller than the QEs? ???
Not a lot of them.

Its funny that Carrier 2 is apparently going to be no bigger than, and perhaps a few thousand tons lighter than, Liaoning after all the fanboys analysts predicted a fire-breathing monster CVN. At least PLAN seems to know how much they have to learn.
 

sferrin

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Moose said:
sferrin said:
Does not compute. They're going to operate Flankers off a ship 15,000 tons smaller than the QEs? ???
Not a lot of them.

Its funny that Carrier 2 is apparently going to be no bigger than, and perhaps a few thousand tons lighter than, Liaoning after all the fanboys analysts predicted a fire-breathing monster CVN. At least PLAN seems to know how much they have to learn.

With the Liaoning at 65,000 tons that new ship is going to be about 20% smaller.
 

Archibald

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

From Wikipedia article on the Liaoning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Liaoning

In April 1998, Ukrainian Trade Minister Roman Shpek announced the winning bid of US$20 million from Chong Lot Travel Agency, a Hong Kong-based company, which proposed to tow Varyag out of the Black Sea, through the Suez Canal and around southern Asia to Macau, where the ship would be moored and converted into a floating hotel and casino, similar to the Kiev in Tianjin and Minsk at Minsk World in Shenzhen.

In January 2015, further details of the transaction emerged from an interview with Xu Zengping by the South China Morning Post. Xu reported that he was commissioned by the PLAN to purchase the vessel on its behalf, with the floating hotel and casino as a cover story to avoid offending the U.S. and to placate Ukrainian concerns about potential military use.

Xu Zengping, the impresario for the whole process from 1996 to 1999, estimated in 2015 the total cost out of his own pocket to be at least US$120 million. He insisted that he has received no reimbursement at all from China, and has spent the last 18 years repaying his debts, in part by selling properties including his palatial home. A source familiar with the acquisition offered the explanation that many of the naval officials initiating the mission had either died or were in jail.

Looks like the poor shmo was completely manipulated by the Chinese government, which needed a covert story to procure an aircraft carrier hull.
 

JFC Fuller

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

sferrin said:
With the Liaoning at 65,000 tons that new ship is going to be about 20% smaller.

Liaoning isn't 65,000 tons. The Kuznetzov class, according to Russian sources, are about 46,000 tons standard displacement only getting over 50,000 at deeper loads. At 50,000 tons 001A is probably about the same size as Liaoning which is pretty much what anyone who has been paying attention was expecting. And yes, they can and are operating flankers from a ship that size.

Related: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/new-video-reveals-evolving-flight-operations-off-chinas-1749955396
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Latest image ...
 

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sferrin

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

JFC Fuller said:
sferrin said:
With the Liaoning at 65,000 tons that new ship is going to be about 20% smaller.

Liaoning isn't 65,000 tons. The Kuznetzov class, according to Russian sources, are about 46,000 tons standard displacement only getting over 50,000 at deeper loads.
http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/worldwideaircraftcarriers/varyag.htm (65,000 tons full load)
http://sinodefence.com/liaoning-varyag-class/ (59,100 tons full load)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1143_5-specs.htm
http://rusnavy.com/nowadays/strength/surfaceships/kuznetzov/ (metric tons)

The US Midway & Coral Sea (both smaller than either Liaoning or Kuznetsov) both tipped the scales at ~65,000 tons.

JFC Fuller said:
At 50,000 tons 001A is probably about the same size as Liaoning which is pretty much what anyone who has been paying attention was expecting.

Same size as Liaoning, yes. 50,000 tons? No. (Okay, maybe completely empty, before they paint it, weighed in metric tons.)
 

JFC Fuller

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Kuznetzov class are approx sub-50,000 tons standard displacement (Jane's Fighting Ships gives her 45,900 tons standard), note you have referenced full-load, your Midway and Coral Sea figures are also full-load.
 

sferrin

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

JFC Fuller said:
Kuznetzov class are approx sub-50,000 tons standard displacement, note most of your sources state full-load, your Midway and Coral Sea figures are also full-load.

Sure. Which doesn't change the fact that they're ~65,000 tons full load. (Just like the Nimitz class is considered 100,000 tons even though that's their full load.)
 

Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Upps... I missed to add the latest images:
 

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Deino

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Re: Chinese CVN Developments

Latest update on the CV-17 (CV-001A class) carrier ... the hull was completed on 6. August (celebrated even with a ceremony - see the banner on the ramp) and the island was spotted ready to be lifted on the hull.
 

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Deino

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Island was lifted today ...
 

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Deino

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;)
 

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Deino

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Upps, seems as if I forgot some updates.

Painting the hull seems almost done and expected launch date on March 23.
 

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fightingirish

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You meant, that the expected launch date will be on April 23rd. ;)
The Type-001A aircraft carrier launching commemorative postcards are seen. The launch date will be April 23, the 68th anniversary of the People's Liberation Army Navy.
 

Deino

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Upsss ... a minor rift in the Spacetime-contimuum !

But indeed, the date seems to be on 23. April 2017, the 68th foundiong anniversary of the PLAN.
 

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Thorvic

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That's not necessarily a good idea, build to a specific date on such a ship which is actually the first one they have built from scratch seems a tad unwise as could lead to short cuts and rushed work to appease the committee rather than for the quality of the ship !!.
 

Deino

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Geoff_B said:
That's not necessarily a good idea, build to a specific date on such a ship which is actually the first one they have built from scratch seems a tad unwise as could lead to short cuts and rushed work to appease the committee rather than for the quality of the ship !!.

I think if there were some daubts in the meantime that they would not finish the ship until that date they would surely not issued this postcard. The date however is mentioned since some time and the ship - at least externally - ready since December; the only thing missing was the paint.

At least it is in a much more progressed condition of construction than the new Indian carrier.
 

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Deino

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Here are the IMO best images with the painting just begun from last Tuesday...
 

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Deino

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Update ...
 

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