Chengdu J-20 pictures, analysis and speculation Part II

[Deino]

Oh my god ! ... this is an official publication by the US Army ! ... do I need to say more ??

Visual Aircraft Recognition - FEBRUARY 2016

http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/tc3-01-80.pdf

No wonder the US fanboys keep saying the latest Chinese fighters are copied from the US ones.

 

[Sferrin]

What? You've never seen the F-16G? ;D

 

[Arjen]

That's from an official US Army document: Visual Aircraft Recognition - February 2016
http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/tc3_01x80.pdf

Other glitches:

Soko Jastreb: Fiat G91Y
Jaguar: Breguet supposed to be its manufacturer
MiG-27: Tornado
AJ-37 Viggen: Tornado
MiG-23: MiG-27
Super Frelon: SH-3 Sea King

 

[Mike Pryce]

I speculated that the J20 was a type of Viggen equivalent:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11656.msg112704.html#msg112704

I was wrong.

However, good to see the Forger is back in service!

 

[stealthflanker]

That's from an official US Army document: Visual Aircraft Recognition - February 2016
http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/tc3_01x80.pdf

Other glitches:

Soko Jastreb: Fiat G91Y
Jaguar: Breguet supposed to be its manufacturer
MiG-27: Tornado
AJ-37 Viggen: Tornado
MiG-23: MiG-27
Super Frelon: SH-3 Sea King

quite number of "oops" there ;D

 

[NeilChapman]

That's from an official US Army document: Visual Aircraft Recognition - February 2016
http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/tc3_01x80.pdf

Other glitches:

Soko Jastreb: Fiat G91Y
Jaguar: Breguet supposed to be its manufacturer
MiG-27: Tornado
AJ-37 Viggen: Tornado
MiG-23: MiG-27
Super Frelon: SH-3 Sea King

quite number of "oops" there ;D

SNAFU might be a bit more descriptive.

 

[Grey Havoc]

FUBAR may be an even better way to describe it.

 

[Deino]

Following the maiden flight of J-20A '2101' on 18 January 2016 an outright News blackout was issued on most high-end projects: no new J-20 images, nothing on the J-16 and J-11B or even the J-10B/Cs rolling off the line at CAC. However following several reports, a few more LRIP J-20As are being built all wearing a plain grey colour scheme and toned-down low-visibility national markings.

Reportedly four J-20As were spotted yesterday at CAC and in mind of the 95th anniversary of the CCP's foundation on 1. July, this image posted could maybe be the first J-20A handed over to the PLAAF ??!!

In the meantime J-20 prototypes have been undergoing weapon launch tests including the long-range PL-15.

Deino

 

[Deino]

Finally ... the first for the PLAAF !

 

[flanker]

Very nice, congratulations to the Chinese. Thanks for sharing Deino.

 

[Deino]

Here a b it larger ...

 

[pedrospe]

Nice image Deino,looks pretty cool with this camouflage colors.

best regards

Pedro

 

[Sferrin]

Damn. Looks like they even nabbed the paint.

 

[Blitzo]

Looks like the in service colours is no different to the scheme on 2016/2017 prototypes, aside from the low vis roundels.

 

[Deino]

More images ...

 

[Deino]

I just read some rumors about a hand-over this afternoon and more reports are popping up with the same theme !!

:"The history has turned a new page!!!The dreamed, anticipated & long-awaited day has arrived."

It is rumored that LRIP J-20s have finally been delivered to PLAAF Flight Test & Training Base today !!!

Still awaiting confirmation and esp. images ...

via: http://www.fyjs.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1836564&extra=page%3D&page=4

Deino

PS: the image popped up in late July; I simply missed to post it during the holydays.

 

[Sferrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RltFOGcqTs

 

[Deino]

On 24. September another new LRIP J-20A made its maiden flight ... since then more images - including two showing at least three birds on the flightline - appeared ... + this very nice one of the first one in grey !

Deino

 

[FighterJock]

On 24. September another new LRIP J-20A made its maiden flight ... since then more images - including two showing at least three birds on the flightline - appeared ... + this very nice one of the first one in grey !

Deino

Excellent photos Deino, keep them coming. B)

 

[flanker]

So we are looking at 4 LRIP ones already? I have to wonder how complete they really are but none the less they are certainly building them quick.

 

[Deino]

So we are looking at 4 LRIP ones already? I have to wonder how complete they really are but none the less they are certainly building them quick.

To admit, that's very much unsure right now since these factory-fresh birds no longer show a c/n. Following a few reports - however I don't know how reliable - there are already 7 LRIP J-20As out.

 

[Deino]

..... simply amazing !

 

[Deino]

.... and now also yet another yellow bird numbered 101 !

 

[Deino]

...

 

[Sferrin]

So sweet! It's exactly what I would have expected the ATF to look like back in 1985.

 

[Ian33]

Those 700 extra F22 are going to be badly needed. Plus refuelling. ...

Tis a thing of great but terrible beauty indeed.

 

[Sferrin]

I'll bet they turn them out like gangbusters. 500+ for sure.

 

[Deino]

 

[totoro]

I'll bet they turn them out like gangbusters. 500+ for sure.

500+? Possibly, but not before 2040. Flankers are a much less complex platform and a cheaper platform and PLA air forces have been buying them at roughly one regiment per year for over a decade now. Can't see J20 being bought in significantly greater numbers per year.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Some near-professional quality pics are being posted at http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=7379.360. Speculation mounting about a public unveiling and/or Zhuhai appearance.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=7379.360

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

 

[FighterJock]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

The gun will probably be well hidden in such a way that we cannot see it. A fighter without a gun today would be like the fighters over Vietnam in the 1960's

 

[kaiserd]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

The gun will probably be well hidden in such a way that we cannot see it. A fighter without a gun today would be like the fighters over Vietnam in the 1960's

That's a bit of a false analogy. The latest generations of dogfighting close-in AAMs do render a gun far less useful in the air to air role (as does the proliferation of AMRAAM and its equivalents), especially against top-tier opponents. I've read comments by people involved with the F-22 Raptor programme about half-regretting including its Vulcan as it's likely utility may not justify the direct and indirect costs and weight of its inclusion (apologies I haven't yet traced that comment.)
The continuing inclusion of guns in fighter aircraft is more of a cultural aspect (and for the air to ground role) than based on any expectation of extensive use in the air-to-air role; after the American experience over Vietnam this cultural aspect may be more strongly felt by the US than by the Chinese re: the J-20.

Now the J-20 may well actually have an internal gun, I would merely suggest that if it didn't this wouldn't be shocking and would not be correctly interpreted as a major omission.

 

[Blitzo]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

I think the gun door is probably on the left shoulder. Look for asymmetry on the aircraft at that location, and on the left side you will see a small panel with a dark rectangle.

Remember this is a stealth fighter and a roomy one at that; it is reasonable for the gun door to be quite smooth and hard to spot.

 

[Deino]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

I think the gun door is probably on the left shoulder. Look for asymmetry on the aircraft at that location, and on the left side you will see a small panel with a dark rectangle.

Remember this is a stealth fighter and a roomy one at that; it is reasonable for the gun door to be quite smooth and hard to spot.

Most likely here !?

 

[FighterJock]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

I think the gun door is probably on the left shoulder. Look for asymmetry on the aircraft at that location, and on the left side you will see a small panel with a dark rectangle.

Remember this is a stealth fighter and a roomy one at that; it is reasonable for the gun door to be quite smooth and hard to spot.

Most likely here !?

The top picture is exactly where I thought the J-20's gun should be Deino. By the way, what caliber would the gun be? 20 mm or 30 mm?

 

[kaiserd]

The aircraft doesn't appear to mount an internal gun. I'm not seeing any kind of muzzle door or surface bumps that would suggest the aircraft having one.

I think the gun door is probably on the left shoulder. Look for asymmetry on the aircraft at that location, and on the left side you will see a small panel with a dark rectangle.

Remember this is a stealth fighter and a roomy one at that; it is reasonable for the gun door to be quite smooth and hard to spot.

Most likely here !?

The top picture is exactly where I thought the J-20's gun should be Deino. By the way, what caliber would the gun be? 20 mm or 30 mm?

It is very likely to be an updated Chinese version of the 23mm gun from the J-10 or the 30mm gun from the Chinese Flanker variants. To me the latter would be rather more likely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-23
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-301

 

[Sferrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkOQnehenxk

 

[Ian33]

Beautiful. It's an absolute stunner.

Hat doffed to the Chinese.