C-130 Hercules Projects

hesham

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Hi,

The Lockheed had old project called C-130J,it was developed
from C-130E with increase aileron and rudder chords,wider u/c
track,improved braking system and additional armoured protection;
do you have a drawing to it ?,(of course I know there was a new project
to lockheed in 1996 called C-130J ).
 

CammNut

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Does anyone remember a Lockheed proposal for a "widebody" C-130, or is my memory playing tricks with me?

Meanwhile, I promise I used "search" but can't believe the attached have not already appeared somewhere on this site.

I remember the proposal, from 1997, but found the pictures at:

http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/articles/float.htm
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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In future, note you can modify the first post to attach the images you forgot, should you wish.

:)
 

Sentinel Chicken

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CammNut said:
Does anyone remember a Lockheed proposal for a "widebody" C-130, or is my memory playing tricks with me?

There was one. Can't remember from when or the details, I think in the 1970s, but there is a artist's concept of one in the Squadron "In Action" title about the Hercules. I think it was designated C-130 WBS or something like that?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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C-130 WBS (Wide Body STOL) despite its name, had width increased only from 10 to 11.7 feet, height from 9.1 ft to 11.3 ft, and length from 41.4 to 48.1 ft, so it really wasn't "wide body". Also had strengthened wing and engine structures to take T-56-A-15 engines and a 14 ft diameter prop. It supposedly met all AMST requirements.

Source:

Lou Drendel, C-130 In Action, Squadron-Signal
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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According to Chris Reed (C-130 Hercules and its variants, Schiffer)

C-130 WBS was proposed in 1984 and stood for Wide Body Section; it used new GE34 engines.
 

flateric

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"Emerging requirements for new tactical transport aircraft [...] new battlefield scenarios. Two types of aircraft are visualized: the tactical assault and tactical support airlifters. Two C-130 derivatives [...] that are capable of providing a low-cost solution to these requirements. These aircraft incorporate modern propulsion technology to enhance field length and payload-range. [...]GE34 engines and the Hamilton Standard counter-rotating propellers."

With respect to the Assault C-130, the C-130 WBS cargo compartment is higher, wider, and longer. It is 135.6 inches (3.44m) high. 140.4 inches (3.57m) wide, and the cargo floor has been lengthened by 180 inches (4.5 m) to increase the number of standard pallets from five to seven. With this size, it can accommodate-with Standard clearances-such vehicles as the Infantry Fighting Vehicle, self-propelled howitzers, 5-ton truck and troops alongside, and various shop vans.

AIAA-84-2506
Near-Term Application of Modern Propulsion Technology to a Tactical Transport
D. M. Ryle Jr., Lockheed-Georgia Co.,Marietta, GA;
F. W. Perkins, United Technologies Corp., Winsor Locks, CT;
and J. L. Eddy, General Electric Co., Cincinnati, OH
 

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LowObservable

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There was also the C-130 High Technology Test Bed, which crashed in 1993.

Much earlier - in the 1970s - there were discussions of a big-cabin L-100-50 (?) for military and commercial use, powered by a turboprop engine based on the engine for the XCH-62 Heavy Lift Helicopter.
 

flateric

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C-130 HTTB

As a result of the Data gathered from the Credible Sport program, in February 1984 the High Technology Test Bed (HTTB) Program was initiated at Lockheed-Georgia. In June 1984 a L-100-20 N130X was modified as the HTTB. Some of the engineering and experience gained from the Credible Sport Phase 1,2 programs were incorporated into the design of the HTTB; i.e. enlarged ailerons Horsal (Horsals) fins, a dorsal fin and double slotted-flaps, and STOL telemetry and avionics instrumentation. Program involved adding major enhancements to an L382E-20 aircraft to develop Advanced Short-Takeoff-Landing (STOL), Survivability, Advanced Cockpit, and Electronics and NavCom Avionics technologies for future tactical cargo aircraft.

"Proposed roles for future tactical airlift drive requirements for research and development in the areas of advanced Short Takeoff and Landing (STOL), Electronic Systems, Survivability, and Advanced Cockpit capabilities. A common scenario may involve deep penetration into enemy territory with no air of ground support. The transport may be required to land on bomb damaged runways, highways, or dirt roads. Landing dispersion requirements may not exceed 1,500 feet with a 50 foot obstacle at the runway threshold. The aircraft may have to take on cargo in this area and get airborne again with the same runway requirement. Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Company began the High Technology Test Bed (HTTB), an Independent Research and Development (IRAD) program, in 1984 to address technologies required for these future tactical transports. The program utilizes a commercial, stretched C-130 transport as the technology focal point. This Flying Laboratory is an ideal platform for systems development. The aircraft is highly modified to perform the STOL mission and is fully instrumented with a real time data acquisition system. The HTTB undergoes modification spans followed by flight spans to evaluate systems performance."

On February 3, 1993 the HTTB Crashed at Dobbins AFB GA. During a high speed ground test run, it lifted off, veered left and crashed.
 

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Apophenia

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LowObservable said:
... a turboprop engine based on the engine for the XCH-62 Heavy Lift Helicopter.

That would be an earlier variation on the Allison PD 370 proposed for the US Navy' MPA contest? Or were there other T701 turboprop derivatives?

BTW, great stuff flateric!
 

LowObservable

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My exposure to it was pretty much second-hand - over Harbor Lights (flaming Sambuca is part of it) in some dive in L.A. with some loonies from Flying Tiger Line.
 

Apophenia

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Thanks for answering LowObservable. Probably best to have kept one on the flaming sambuca, the other on the FTL loonies, and not sweat the details. ;D
 

flateric

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Another heavily mutated C-130

...with a power
augmented control system.
This control concept is based on an application
proposed by Hans Multhopp for the Counter
Insurgency Aircraft (COIN) (Martin's one) in the 1960s. The
longitudinal-directional control surface is an inverted
V-tail that uses the exhaust from the turboprop
engine to blow the lower surface of the elevator to
augment the nose-up pitching-moment capability.
The configuration tested
demonstrated trimmed lift coefficients as high as 9.
The rudder is capable of producing large
increments of yawing moment without causing cross
coupling with rolling moment for both the flapsretracted
and the flaps-deflected configurations.
This tail has benefits for the case of an engine
failure. The right engines provide blowing for the
right empenage surface and the left engines provide
blowing for the left empenage. If an engine on the
right side fails, the blowing on the right empenage is
reduced and its download is reduced. This blowing
loss reduces the nose-up moment on the side of the
aircraft with reduced lift. It also reduces the
contribution to clockwise yawing moment which
trims the yaw due to reduced thrust on the right
side. The data are promising and indicate that with
further development, an inverted V-tail with
boundary-layer control could be designed which
would produce the longitudinal and directional trim
required with little or no control input by the pilot.
The lateral control required can be obtained from a
spoiler with the attendant lift loss. Alternatively, an
aileron with boundary-layer control could provide
the needed lateral control without a significant lift
loss.

Source:
Comparison of Five STOL Concepts for Runway Independent Aircraft
Richard Margason, CENTRA Technology Inc., Williamsburg, VA
AIAA-2002-6025
2002 Biennial International Powered Lift Conference and Exhibit, Williamsburg, Virginia, Nov. 5-7, 2002
 

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Jemiba

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"I'm surprised I haven't seen this one yet"

From Aviation Week 9/1977:
 

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fightingirish

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Sentinel Chicken said:
CammNut said:
Does anyone remember a Lockheed proposal for a "widebody" C-130, or is my memory playing tricks with me?

There was one. Can't remember from when or the details, I think in the 1970s, but there is a artist's concept of one in the Squadron "In Action" title about the Hercules. I think it was designated C-130 WBS or something like that?
overscan said:
C-130 WBS (Wide Body STOL) despite its name, had width increased only from 10 to 11.7 feet, height from 9.1 ft to 11.3 ft, and length from 41.4 to 48.1 ft, so it really wasn't "wide body". Also had strengthened wing and engine structures to take T-56-A-15 engines and a 14 ft diameter prop. It supposedly met all AMST requirements.

Source:

Lou Drendel, C-130 In Action, Squadron-Signal

Hi folks,
a few months ago there was another proposal for a wider-body C-130. Unfortunally I can't find the article at the Blog Ares, where I remember reeding some data and seeing a CGI picture of that concept. Maybe someone of you have more luck and can post the data and picture in this thread.
Thanks!

Edit: :-[
fightingirish said:
 

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spectre

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fightingirish said:
Sentinel Chicken said:
CammNut said:
Does anyone remember a Lockheed proposal for a "widebody" C-130, or is my memory playing tricks with me?

There was one. Can't remember from when or the details, I think in the 1970s, but there is a artist's concept of one in the Squadron "In Action" title about the Hercules. I think it was designated C-130 WBS or something like that?
overscan said:
C-130 WBS (Wide Body STOL) despite its name, had width increased only from 10 to 11.7 feet, height from 9.1 ft to 11.3 ft, and length from 41.4 to 48.1 ft, so it really wasn't "wide body". Also had strengthened wing and engine structures to take T-56-A-15 engines and a 14 ft diameter prop. It supposedly met all AMST requirements.

Source:

Lou Drendel, C-130 In Action, Squadron-Signal

Hi folks,
a few months ago there was another proposal for a wider-body C-130. Unfortunally I can't find the article at the Blog Ares, where I remember reeding some data and seeing a CGI picture of that concept. Maybe someone of you have more luck and can post the data and picture in this thread.
Thanks!

Edit: :-[
fightingirish said:

No more pictures...but here is the writing

source:Aerospace Daily & Defense Report

October 1, 2008 Wednesday

Lockheed Explores Niche For Widebody C-130
BYLINE: Graham Warwick

SECTION: News; Pg. 5 Vol. 228 No. 1

LENGTH: 479 words


Lockheed Martin is studying widebody derivatives of its Hercules military airlifter able to carry larger loads, but believes the «C-130XL» would only be a niche product and not a replacement for its C-130J tactical transport.

The C-130XL is one of several concepts being studied to fill the «white space» requirement for intra-theater transport of heavy U.S. Army equipment in the 2020 timeframe, says Jim Grant, vice president of business development for global mobility.

«If today the C-130J can carry 95-percent-plus of everything in theater, in 2015-25 we still see the J carrying 90 percent of what the Army wants to move,» he says. «But there are some vehicles [such as the Future Combat Systems] that will be too big for the J.»

As a result, Lockheed Martin sees a «small white space to carry outsize equipment that will have to be moved by something,» Grant says, and it is looking at «how to fill that white space in the out-years.»

In addition to three notional sizes of larger C-130J derivative, the company is studying stealthy short-takeoff-and-landing (STOL) concepts for the Air Force and tiltrotor vertical-takeoff-and-landing (VTOL) concepts for the Army.

The Air Force and Army are trying to combine their battlefield transport requirements under the Joint Future Theater Lift program, but it is not clear whether their competing desires for STOL and VTOL capability can be reconciled in one program.

«There are things we don’t know,» Grant says. «What payload? What ranges? What runway conditions? If they need Hercules-size field operations, then could it be a derivative of the C-130?

«If it’s down in the 1,000-2,000 foot STOL, none of the aircraft out there can routinely do that,» he says. «If the Army pushes hard for VTOL, none of today’s aircraft can carry an FCS-size vehicle in a vertical environment.»

The three sizes of conceptual C-130XL being studied are targeted at payloads of around 62,000, 72,000 and 80,000-85,000 pounds — up from around 42,000 pounds for the C-130J. All would have a wider, but not necessarily longer, fuselage.

«If we size the payload bay to handle larger vehicles, how much do we have to change about the aircraft? Can we increase the STOL capabilities? That depends on the requirements,» he says.

While a 62,000-pound payload design could use the C-130J’s wing and engines, the larger concepts would require more changes. «What can we do with the current propulsion? At what point do we need different propulsion? We are looking at all options,» he says.

Lockheed Martin sees a C-130XL complementing and not replacing the C-130J. «It would run in parallel, to meet a very specific requirement,» Grant says. Although it could end up similar in size to the Airbus A400M, he does not foresee a big international demand for a larger Hercules. «You could see a small fleet within a fleet – someone with 12 Js and two to three XLs.»
 

stevoe

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Found this drawing in the german aviation magazine "Der Flieger" October 1959
 

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McColm

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Hi there,
Has anyone added a one-step hull to a C-130 Hercules?
Lockheed developed a "float plane" convertion kit but got no takers as tests had found due to the weight and drag the payload and range had been cut by 30%.
The forest fires that have ravished the planet mayhave been saved by a large water-bomber that can land on fresh water lakes or scoop up the water whilst in flight,the C-130J could have been used as it has enhanced range and payload.
There is a version of the C-130 that uses foam retardant from the rear of the aircraft.
I'm sure once the technical details have been worked out someone will build a one-step hulled version of the C-130, even if it has podded jet engines under each wing for extra boost for takeoffs. Carbon fibre or modern composite materials could be used to save weight. The Navy or Coast Guard could use this for Search & Rescue.
Or has someone thought of this before?
 

SteveO

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Take a look at the Lockheed C-130 variants thread http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2860.0/highlight,c-130.html

Found this using search.
 

Antonio

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That search thing ;)
 

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McColm

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I've seen the pictures of an earlier C-130 seaplane, just thought there would be some more as the Herc is the backbone of most of the countries in the world and the oceans make up about 70% of the Earths surface.
 

hesham

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Hi,

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1981/1981%20-%201925.html?search=c-130%201981

[Pic removed- better copy below - Admin]
 

Kokoro

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I am guessing that the EC-130V had the radome atop the fuselage on pylons because it was retrofitted to an existing herc. Whereas the top of the fin idea has aerodynamic advantages and would be better suited to a new build aircraft. One of the EC-130V advantages over an E-2 is that it had a longer range. The fin position rather than above the fuselage would help that.


....I assume?
 

quellish

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Kokoro said:
I am guessing that the EC-130V had the radome atop the fuselage on pylons because it was retrofitted to an existing herc. Whereas the top of the fin idea has aerodynamic advantages and would be better suited to a new build aircraft. One of the EC-130V advantages over an E-2 is that it had a longer range. The fin position rather than above the fuselage would help that.


....I assume?

The EC-130V was originally part of a Coast Guard program before being transferred back to USAF in 1995 and redesignated NC-130H. NC-130H flew in support of the 412th test wing, space command, at Edwards for a while before recently replacing NC-130A and being fitted with the Boeing tactical laser that's been in the news.
While it was the 412th it turned up in a lot of interesting places.
 

Triton

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Artist's concept of the Lockheed C-130SS for "STOL/stretch" that was offered as an alternative to the AMST. Enhanced STOL features include horsal and dorsal extensions, double-slotted flaps, and spoilers.
 

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elmayerle

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Way back when (Turin Air Show, 1972), I saw a lockheed proposal for a vstol Hercules powered by four Pegasus engines. Anyone have info on this?
 

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Manufacturer Desk Model of Lockheed L-400 Twin Hercules.
 

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HeavyG

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Speaking of the twin-engined C-130, L-M offered a shortened version (shortened fuselage) to compete with the Alenia C-27J and the EADS C-295 in the recent joint tactical transport competition.
 

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Found this in an old box belonging to a NASA Ames engineer. I apologize for the poor quality. It's a post-QSRA proposal, dated 1982, for a USB C-130. i found a lot of accompanying calculations, and I believe the engines were supposed to be 4 x TF-34. Don't know how far it made it, probably not very much. i doubt Lockheed was ever involved. The picture shows a display model with the USB arrangement on one side and the standard T56 on the other.
 

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