Boeing X-20 Dyna-Soar and alternate projects

[carmelo]

Well,in front at this pictures of "advanced" Dyna Soar
i have ever asked to me:
1-where are go all these guys (maybe a space station)?
2-Were is the docking port for transfer ?
On the cockpit or on the crew compartment?
How the pilot can go to the crew compartment?
A hatch behind the seat,in Gemini-B style?
but the X-20 cockpit is more small of the Gemini capsule,and remove the ejection seat is impossible.
For passengers to the cockpit we have the same problem.
So?

 

[Proponent]

Well,in front at this pictures of "advanced" Dyna Soar
i have ever asked to me....

I don't know to what extent this is based on actual plans, but this video on www.deepcold.com suggests some answers.

 

[Orionblamblam]

1-where are go all these guys (maybe a space station)?

Yes.

2-Were is the docking port for transfer ?

In the transition section.

[/quote]

 

[Triton]

Was Dynasoar considered for enemy satellite or spacecraft rendezvous, inspection, and then, if necessary, destruction missions? Do we have any information about the payloads that the vehicle might carry for this purpose?

 

[Lauge]

Was Dynasoar considered for enemy satellite or spacecraft rendezvous, inspection, and then, if necessary, destruction missions? Do we have any information about the payloads that the vehicle might carry for this purpose?

Just to avoid future misunderstanding, I stress that the design for the "YF-19A Saber" is entirely hypothetical:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3aq.html#MikeBillard

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg

 

[Michel Van]

Was Dynasoar considered for enemy satellite or spacecraft rendezvous, inspection, and then, if necessary, destruction missions? Do we have any information about the payloads that the vehicle might carry for this purpose?

for SAINT II, Blue Gemini study and "Evil" LM csd
they look for 2 man mission, one make a EVA to enemy satellite and look Wat it is.
if the enemy satellite is hostile, it gona be destroy
they had several proposal like during EVA the Astronaut spray black paint over sensors and Camera.
or cut communication antenna of
or after EVA Shoot with a gun or just fire a rocket on it

i think that last one would be mode for Dyna Soar
the Pilot makes a close rendezvous and check the enemy satellite (No EVA)
and shoot it if necessary

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/saintii.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apolmcsd.htm

 

[Dynoman]

DTIC contains the X-20's "Boost Glide Weapon Systems," a SECRET document that covers some of the missions and weapons systems proposed for Dynasoar. Great document...149MB.

http://www.dtic.mil/srch/search?template=%2Fdtic%2Fsearch%2Fresults-template.html&changequery=1&hl=y&s=1&searchview=d4&enableLemmatization=yes&site=dod&q=boost+glide+weapon+systems&c=u0&c=u2&c=u7&c=u8&c=u1&c=u5&c=u6&c=u3&c=j1&c=d3&c=d4&c=d7&c=d6&c=d8&c=da&c=t3&c=c1&c=t1&c=a0&c=n0&c=s0&c=b0&c=e3&c=c0&c=r0&c=m0&c=w0

 

[Dynoman]

Sorry, heres a better link.

Boost Glide Weapons System Applications Study...149MB

http://www.dtic.mil/srch/doc?collection=t3&id=AD0311156

 

[Michel Van]

THX for link

 

[carmelo]

2-Were is the docking port for transfer ?

In the transition section.

And how pilot and crew go to the transition section?

 

[Steve Pace]

What we really need is an Orbital Garbage Truck to start cleaning up all the space junk out there.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Was Dynasoar considered for enemy satellite or spacecraft rendezvous, inspection, and then, if necessary, destruction missions?

Yes.

Do we have any information about the payloads that the vehicle might carry for this purpose?

Yes. A variety of small rockets, plus a remotely controlled modified M-16 for close-up work.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Now that's funny! See I was gonna suggest the pilot stick a handgun out the open entry hatch and take care of the enemy sat that way.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Now that's funny! See I was gonna suggest the pilot stick a handgun out the open entry hatch and take care of the enemy sat that way.

Nothing terribly funny about it. A 5.56mm rifle round will almost certainly cause massive damage to something like a standard 1960's/70's spysat or comsat. A the very least it would make a mess of the solar panels.

 

[Orionblamblam]

And how pilot and crew go to the transition section?

Tunnel.

 

[Triton]

Sorry, heres a better link.

Boost Glide Weapons System Applications Study...149MB

http://www.dtic.mil/srch/doc?collection=t3&id=AD0311156

Thank you Dynoman.

 

[Proponent]

And how pilot and crew go to the transition section?

Tunnel.

Hang on a minute--Dyna-Soar docking with a Saturn S-IV station? What I find weird about this is the idea of the USAF considering the use of any Saturn hardware at all. Unless... this was very early in the Dyna-Soar program, before the Titan IIIC was approved, and the AF was planning to use a Saturn C-1 to launch Dyna-Soar?

 

[Michel Van]

USAF consider for a while Saturn 1 as launch vehicle for Dyna Soar

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Oh yeah, Saturn was a early option. Check it out.

From Astronautix.com:


Moonbat

 

[The Artist]

Was Dynasoar considered for enemy satellite or spacecraft rendezvous, inspection, and then, if necessary, destruction missions?

Yes.

Do we have any information about the payloads that the vehicle might carry for this purpose?

Yes. A variety of small rockets, plus a remotely controlled modified M-16 for close-up work.

Sorry about the poor quality - this is from an old photocopy. The source is noted in the image.

Mike

 

[Michel Van]

from left to right
Convair Astro IV with Lox/Lh2 stages
Martin Titan C (1959) a Titan II First stage with Lox/Lh2 second stage with LR87 engine.
GD Saturn C-1
Martin Titan II with Solid booster (THIS IS NOT Titan IIIC)
USAF SLS A-388

other Rockets
GD Atlas Centaur (Boeing proposal)

Boeing Solid Booster HY-Fly aka Early bird
http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/image16.jpg
http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/image172a.jpg

Martin Titan C (1957) build from Titan-1 Hardware
first stage 4 meter ø with 4xLR87 engine, second stage = Titan-1 first stage.

NASA study for Air launch X-20 into orbit from a B-52
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4479.0.html

i found this picture DS on Saturn C-1 but a tree stage !
http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/image18.jpg

hell who many launcher were proposed for X-20 ?!

 

[The Artist]

Sorry about the poor quality of these. This little photo-copied packet had been given to me some time ago so I don't know any more of the source than what you'll see in image 1.

Mike

 

[The Artist]

Air launching the Dyna Soar for orbital missions - from a NASA TM.

Source information noted in the images.

Mike

 

[Orionblamblam]

Sorry about the poor quality - this is from an old photocopy. The source is noted in the image.

The artwork is notably flawed. Most importantly, the Titan Transtage is not shown... the Dyna Soar would only be separated from that at end-of-mission, after the de-orbit burn and just before re-entry, since it relied on the Transtage for all important maneuver capability. Additionally, it does not seem to show the re-entry heatshield over the canopy... until after re-entry and the vehicle decellerating to below Mach 1, the only windows the pilot would have were the small side windows. And it's really unlikely that it would get this close to an enemy satellite, instead it would stand off at least a few hundred yards. Shrapnel is a bitch when your heat shield is metal *foil.*

 

[The Artist]

From Aviation Week. A shot of the wing pylon for the B-52 / Dyna Soar flights.

Mike

 

[The Artist]

Sorry about the poor quality - this is from an old photocopy. The source is noted in the image.

The artwork is notably flawed. Most importantly, the Titan Transtage is not shown... the Dyna Soar would only be separated from that at end-of-mission, after the de-orbit burn and just before re-entry, since it relied on the Transtage for all important maneuver capability. Additionally, it does not seem to show the re-entry heatshield over the canopy... until after re-entry and the vehicle decellerating to below Mach 1, the only windows the pilot would have were the small side windows. And it's really unlikely that it would get this close to an enemy satellite, instead it would stand off at least a few hundred yards. Shrapnel is a bitch when your heat shield is metal *foil.*

True, but I think the intent of this image was to show the concept without giving away too much.

Mike

 

[The Artist]

Thinking outside the box?

Mike

 

[The Artist]

Just a few information pages. What I know of the source can be found in the images.

Mike

 

[The Artist]

The acceleration rocket for Dyna Soar.

From Aviation Week. The full piece has shots of manufacture and salt testing.

Mike

 

[Orionblamblam]

Oh yeah, Saturn was a early option.

And the Juno V before that.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The acceleration rocket for Dyna Soar.

Thiokol XM-92.

 

[The Artist]

A question - do anyone knows more of X-20 landing gears? Any detailied drawings (just in case, I have full 3 set from Scott already)?
Anyone can get rid on this paper?


Thanks in advance!

This is from an advertisement so it may or may not be useful to you.

Mike

 

[The Artist]

And last bit for this Dyna Soar flood.

These two images seem to fit here. Both from Aviation Week.

Mike

 

[Orionblamblam]

These two images seem to fit here.

 

[flateric]

This is from an advertisement so it may or may not be useful to you.
Mike

very useful indeed, thanks!

 

[The Artist]

These two images seem to fit here.

Is that on a modified Titan?

Mike

 

[Orionblamblam]

Is that on a modified Titan?

Doubtful. Given the size of the SLOMAR (bigger'n Dyna Soar), the launch vehicle would need to be at least Saturn I sized, probably bigger. Probably a Norair design for an all-new booster.

 

[martinbayer]

The illustration of the Martin concept shown in Artist's message was also used as a book cover for "Orbiting Stations" by Irwin Stambler:
http://dreamsofspace.nfshost.com/1965orbitingstations.htm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1t6ell3AwVE/Shx6ZPUAFyI/AAAAAAAAAdA/OWaqiIDYSWM/s1600-h/1965orbitingstations.jpg

Martin

 

[airrocket]

WOw...one of the sleekest looking lifting body renderings ever.

 

[The Artist]

The illustration of the Martin concept shown in Artist's message was also used as a book cover for "Orbiting Stations" by Irwin Stambler:
http://dreamsofspace.nfshost.com/1965orbitingstations.htm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1t6ell3AwVE/Shx6ZPUAFyI/AAAAAAAAAdA/OWaqiIDYSWM/s1600-h/1965orbitingstations.jpg

Martin

Thanks.

That one looks much better in color.