trekkist said:A. What killed it? 1)JFK/McNamera discomfort with a manned military space program2)cost/cost overruns/incept delay…latter 2 at least in part result of changes/rethinking of purpose. Dyna itself winnowed down from numerous prior spaceplane studies to a proof of concept vehicle for a future operational vehicle (which a little modified Dyna could have been)B. "Useless"?Imagine first orbit, as I think possible if at some point fast-tracked, by '65-68. Soon after, USAF has potential for a fast-deployment, polar-orbit eyes in the sky response to a sudden event: "What's THAT?"/"Let's take a look" AS WELL AS (given an armed variant) ability to hit OR put up a man to CHOOSE/be told "Go/No go" to hit that Sudden Event. Would that have been a VITAL need? Given we got by without it, no. Would the observation part of it been quickly overtaken by unmanned spysats? Yep. But it's not just the space fanboy part of me wishes Dyna had flown. Recall the Gemini astronauts' stories of how much they could see from orbit: they located ships at sea by tracing the "contrails" to the little tiny dot at their apex. NASA doubted this at first, but it was so. C. IF Dyna had become operational, it might well have remained so, "insulted" by its being military from political manipulations of NASA's budget. Result? 1)No hiatus in manned flight, ever. 2)A small reusable spaceplane as the established baseline of how to reach LEO with people -- as vs. a big, expensive, twice-lost-in-public spaceplane superseded by CAPSULE). Few people notice when a jet fighter is lost. Would USAF have procured Dynas in such numbers that losing a few would seem as unremarkable? Maybe. 3)an operational piece of LEO infrastructure, to which the USAF could have/would have wanted to add cargo carriers (maybe), small stations (probably), orbital logistics dumps, space tugs, etc.
trekkist said:1. An unmanned vehicle could have done it better and quicker…but by what date did the first such occur? As I recall, MOL was bested by spysats only some years later. I posited a (perhaps technically as well as politically infeasible) early first launch date
2. as my argument's basis, saying then that had the thing existed, the USAF would have fought not just to keep it, but to improve on its capabilities (stations, depots etc). This competition (manned/unmanned) would in the long run have been lost -- but in the short run? Manned bombers didn't die due to missiles, and may still take some time to die due to drones…and that's in an era without a Cold War.
3. Drop the X-20 onto the scene circa '65-68, I'm not wholly convinced a niche wouldn't have been found for it.
trekkist said:KH-9 Hexagon flew 1971; MOL died 1969. Operationally, it wasn't bested before it flew, save perhaps in conceptual anticipation of KH-9's inception.
trekkist said:KH-9 Hexagon flew 1971; MOL died 1969. Operationally, it wasn't bested before it flew, save perhaps in conceptual anticipation of KH-9's inception.
trekkist said:hich is the germ of my argument: an untried/undemonstrated manned orbital recon effort by U.S. technology (presumably then, if not now, somewhat superior to Soviet) can't really be contrasted with a demonstrated (and as of Hexagon, perhaps demonstrably superior) spy sat capability. Nor can that comparison offer credible proof it "should not" have been tried.
Let alone that unexpected aspects to manned operations might have emerged.
carmelo said:The truth is that should have choose a more simple fast and soonest thing..for exemple an Apollo capsule with a telescope module.
Launch the Apollo with a Saturn IB,make a docking manovre with the telescope module (in Apollo/LEM or Apollo/ASTPDocking Module mode),
and beginning to spy.
More,you share hardware with NASA and save cost.
carmelo said:The truth is that should have choose a more simple fast and soonest thing..for exemple an Apollo capsule with a telescope module.
Launch the Apollo with a Saturn IB,make a docking manovre with the telescope module (in Apollo/LEM or Apollo/ASTPDocking Module mode),
and beginning to spy.
More,you share hardware with NASA and save cost.
They had a very sophisticated computer targeting system that showed them what targets were coming up on each pass and they would look at them with spotting scopes, figure out if they were clear or important, and prioritize them with the computer system which would then control the big camera.
blackstar said:I sat down with a couple of MOL astronauts a few weeks ago and they explained how operations would have worked with MOL.
carmelo said:blackstar said:I sat down with a couple of MOL astronauts a few weeks ago and they explained how operations would have worked with MOL.
Please,if you contact they again you can ask they three questions?
1-They have wear the MOL spacesuit,and if yes in which configuration (blue or with the white termal overgarnment)?
2-they have training in the maneuver ingress to laboratory through the hatch in the heat shield?
3-They have make EVA simulations?
Thanks.![]()
carmelo said:Please,if you contact they again you can ask they three questions?
1-They have wear the MOL spacesuit,and if yes in which configuration (blue or with the white termal overgarnment)?
carmelo said:2-they have training in the maneuver ingress to laboratory through the hatch in the heat shield?
so far i know they had made, those test in Aircraft as they looking EVA transfer from Gemini to Lab.carmelo said:3-They have make EVA simulations?
you welcome but there ist a MOL threat in this Forumcarmelo said:Thanks.![]()
robunos said:In reality, would it not have been 'upside down' at this point in it's trajectory, like the Space Shuttle ?
carmelo said:But at this point the question is this:
If YOU were Secretary of Defense in 1963,would cancelled the Dyna Soar program?
carmelo said:But at this point the question is this:
If YOU were Secretary of Defense in 1963,would cancelled the Dyna Soar program?
Michel Van said:carmelo said:But at this point the question is this:
If YOU were Secretary of Defense in 1963,would cancelled the Dyna Soar program?
l
as Secretary of Defense, i would transform it into X-20 research program of NASA and USAF
testing area beyond the X-15 capabilities and make one orbit flights from Florida and land in California.
bobbymike said:Me? Nope I would have built nuclear space bombers, about 500 WS-120As, hundreds of Skybolts and a few hundred B-70's
Byeman said:bobbymike said:Me? Nope I would have built nuclear space bombers, about 500 WS-120As, hundreds of Skybolts and a few hundred B-70's
And for what purpose? History has shown that what was done was adequate for the job. All those would be unnecessary and a waste.
hesham said:Hi,
I don't know that,the NA XB-70 intended or purposed for launch Boeing Dyna-Soar,has
anyone ever hear about this info before ?.
hesham said:And;