Boeing Starliner

Well NASA has delayed the undocking of the Starliner from the ISS for a few weeks, from the Space Bucket:


Earlier today we finally got another update on Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft in the form of a media teleconference. Here the agency and company revealed that they still aren’t ready to set a return date until they complete more tests related to the thruster malfunctions and the helium leaks which could take weeks. They stressed that the crew is safe and that they are instead just using the time available to them before the eventual undocking.
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They specifically mentioned new thruster tests expected to happen in the coming days back at NASA’s White Sands Test Facility. Here I will go more in-depth into the state of Starliner, possible return opportunities, extending its 45-day mission cap, and more
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.For more space-related content check out - https://thespacebucket.com/https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...w&q=https://thespacebucket.com/&v=cfNAzknqAqI
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Credit:
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NASA - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLA_...https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLA_DiR1FfKNvjuUpBHmylQ
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Boeing - https://www.youtube.com/@Boeinghttps://www.youtube.com/@Boeing
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Chapters:
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0:00 - Intro
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0:34 - A Few More Weeks of Testing
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Talk about storm in a teacup, one of 18 thrusters on the service module isn't working and they are taking their time to investigate the leak because the module will burn up in the atmosphere during re-entry unlike the crew module. During the breakup of the Russian sat this week they had ISS crew inside the Starliner with the hatches closed ready to evacuate if the ISS was damaged, you think they would do that if they thought it was dangerous to use?
 
Overheard on an accidentally left open Vox circuit at MCS:

"Starliner, this is mission control. Roger your one-niner-three-zero. We concur with your plan to replace number one thruster unit to check fault prediction. We should advise you, however, that our preliminary findings indicate that your on-board AI computer is in error predicting the fault. I say again in error predicting the fault. I know this sounds rather incredible but this conclusion is based on results from our twin AI computer. We are skeptical ourselves and we are running cross checking routines to determine reliability of this conclusion. Sorry about this little snag, fellows.

"And we'll get this info to you just as soon as we work it out.

"Starliner, this is Mission Control two-zero-four-niner transmission concluded."
 
aim9xray said:
Overheard on an accidentally left open Vox circuit at MCS:

"Starliner, this is mission control…. our preliminary findings indicate that your on-board AI computer is in error predicting the fault. I say again in error predicting the fault.
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Bowman:
That’s not surprising, after the stock buy-backs, we couldn’t afford HAL—

“My name BILLY…hi! Hi. I’m BILLY…”

Poole:
You sure you didn’t slide the bubble memory out with the key already?

“What this do?”

no BILLY! Do-*^#^
 
Well more problems for the Starliner:


This morning we got another Starliner update in the form of a teleconference with NASA and Boeing officials. The last one was almost two weeks ago meaning teams had a decent amount of time to continue testing, look at the vehicle, and determine what exactly was going wrong with the spacecraft.
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Even still, no official return date has been set and instead, they mentioned that an optimistic reentry date would be around late July. Combine this with crew rotations expected in the middle of August and Starliner might stay at the station quite a bit longer. Here I will go more in-depth into this newest update, the state of Starliner, current test results, and more.
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For more space-related content check out - https://thespacebucket.com/https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...Q&q=https://thespacebucket.com/&v=ZrnfgvySn1I
Click to expand...
Credit:
NASA - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLA_...https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLA_DiR1FfKNvjuUpBHmylQ
Boeing - https://www.youtube.com/@Boeinghttps://www.youtube.com/@Boeing
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Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:32 - Difficult Testing
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It is the fusion of two Latin phrases. One is "Carpe Diem" or "seize the day". ”Per Diem” is a Latin term that translates to “per day.” Per diem travel pay refers to reimbursement for expenses incurred by the employee during short-term field or remote work assignments such as transportation, meals, lodging, et cetera. Also covers car park fees at the airport or mileage if a POV (Personally Owned Vehicle) is used. (Although I must confess that I don't know what locality code the GSA uses for the ISS in determining the actual and reasonable lodging rate. Probably just coded as "government provided quarters" even though the Stayliner crew are contractor personnel.)

Snark aside: https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-new...astronauts-on-boeing-s-starliner-214604869601 (five hours prior to this post)

"Stay could last until August".
 
aim9xray said:
Probably just coded as "government provided quarters" even though the Stayliner crew are contractor personnel.)
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It is "government provided quarters" and meals. Also, the Starliner crew are NASA civil servants.
 
Associated Press

Boeing is closer to understanding thruster failures on its first astronaut flight with latest test​

MARCIA DUNN
Thu, July 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM PDT

Officials said Thursday there’s still no return date for astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams. Engineers will first disassemble the thruster that was test-fired in New Mexico over the past couple of weeks. Then they’ll analyze the data before clearing Starliner for the trip home.

“We collected an incredible amount of data on the thruster that could help us better understand what is going on in flight,” NASA’s commercial crew program manager Steve Stich said in a statement.

The testing managed to replicate the thruster conditions up until the capsule's docking at the space station, as well as what the thrusters will experience between undocking and descent, according to NASA.
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So could somebody 'splain why these issues were not caught during qual, environmental and thermo-vac testing before flight? Or was your bird subjected to excessive "environmental conditioning" while sitting stacked during the other delays? (ie, did your RCS system rot out from corrosion due to salt fog, etc on the pad? And why? Corrosion already implicated for RCS props valve problems.)

"Hellofa way to run an airline."
 
bob225 said:
Errrrm....
"NASA had looked at Dragon contingency per Butch and Suni waiting for Starliner to be cleared for return, so this may be related."

From a bit further on in the text
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That was just NSF's conjecture. NASA responded to NSF and specifically said it was unrelated to Starliner, the quote is included in the next tweet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813993588730053032

And we have a NASA response for context:

"The study is not related to Starliner. NASA continuously explores a wide range of contingency options with our partners to ensure crew safety aboard the International Space Station. Over the past couple of years, the agency has worked with its commercial partner SpaceX to provide additional return capability on the Dragon spacecraft in the event of a contingency."
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1816501562388390335
View: https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1816501562388390335


It's clear NASA does not want to deviate from its base plan of using Starliner to come home, and this remains most likely. But it is not certain. SpaceX and NASA have been quietly studying launching Crew-9 two astronauts. Suits are available for Butch and Suni.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1816538506715410518
View: https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1816538506715410518


Boeing and NASA’s timeline of tasks to complete before picking a date to return Starliner from the ISS:

July 25: Finish dissecting thruster in White Sands, hold mission management meeting
July 26: Complete RCS thruster “flight rationale”
July 27/28: Docked hot fire tests, helium leak checks
July 29-31: Integrated data assessment, educate NASA leadership
Aug. 1 or later: Agency Flight Test Readiness Review
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aim9xray said:
So could somebody 'splain why these issues were not caught during qual, environmental and thermo-vac testing before flight?
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Thrusters are not fired during such testing of the spacecraft. Thrusters are tested separately from the spacecraft.
 
Byeman said:
Thrusters are not fired during such testing of the spacecraft. Thrusters are tested separately from the spacecraft.
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You know what I meant.

As you wish. ++Precision then and amended as read.

"So could somebody 'splain why these issues were not caught during thruster and system qualification, environmental and thermo-vac testing before integration and flight?"

And the answer is...?
 
aim9xray said:
You know what I meant.

As you wish. ++Precision then and amended as read.

"So could somebody 'splain why these issues were not caught during thruster and system qualification, environmental and thermo-vac testing before integration and flight?"

And the answer is...?
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I doubt they were thermo-vac tested.
 
For a long time I was super-skeptical that any other option was being considered other than Starliner to return Butch and Suni. But in recent days I've been hearing from more and more people that Dragon is being actively worked as a backup option. For obvious reasons NASA does not want to do this, because it probably kills the Starliner program and any chance of a second crew transport system. Anyway, at this point I am about 80-20 in favor of the crew coming back on Starliner. But it's definitely worth watching whereas a couple of weeks ago I would have dismissed the possibility.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1ec0vwd/comment/lexlkkr
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1ec0vwd/comment/lexlkkr/?context=3
 
That said with the recent clarifications I do expect them to return on Starliner. But that the first full mission using it will now launch late 2025.
 
Mark Nankivil said:
So.... wouldn't NASA requirements include that type of testing? Can't imagine the customer not calling out what needed to be done for testing/qualification?

Regards - Mark
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My doubt was due to the difficulties performing such tests.
 
So looks as if things have now stabalized with the thrusters and the helium issue. So what now will they risk a return to Earth before the end of the month or wait it out for a return next month?
 

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