Looks more like a combination of Wedgetail and Posiedon to me. Maybe the program was scaled back, or the sensors got a lot smaller.GTX said:What's so secret about that? It's what the P-8A Poseidon began life as: http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/p8a/index.html
Isn't this rather like the 737 Surveiller that the Indonesian bought back in the 1980s?hesham said:Hi,
the Boeing MMA (Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft) was based on the
Which is why I'm interested in the apparent scaling back, or at least lack of, visible sensors compared to the original config.CFE said:It's interesting to see where the program started, compared to the current P-8 config.
Not to mention the turbofans, much larger fuselage, and new wing the 738 airframe brings.GTX said:Technically yes, although the P-8 and the whole MMA idea are light years ahead of the Surveiller and include a proper ASW fit out.
I found a couple of online mentions of Raytheon repackaging the APS-137 radar to fit in the existing mould lines of the 737--that plus some other improvements apparently turned it into APY-10. I'd guess that this early MMA design had the ventral radome to accomodate a stock APS-137 instead.Just call me Ray said:Which is why I'm interested in the apparent scaling back, or at least lack of, visible sensors compared to the original config.
Give that man a prize. Going back to the original article, I see that the caption for this picture is "The Signals Intelligence variant of MMA will replace the EP-3."CFE said:What specific equipment are the fuselage blisters are for? My take is that the pic depicts a potential replacement for the EP-3E Aires ELINT aircraft, rather than the vanilla P-8 Poseidon.
Now that ACS has collapsed, the Navy is now running an EP-X program for which the P-8 airframe is the clear front runner.CFE said:Would it make sense to incorporate the ELINT package and ASW package in the same airframe? I would assume that the EP-8 would have had only the ELINT equipment in the standard P-8 airframe. The point is moot now, as the EP-8 has been cancelled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRWF8uVaK6MBoeing animation of an anti-submarine mission with the US Navy's new P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, schedule to enter service in 2013.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4uNqBL-V80Boeing video of the first flight of the US Navy's P-8A Poseidon anti-submarine warfare aircraft, from Renton Field, Washington, to Boeing Field in Seattle on April 25, 2009.
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich) just dropped a couple of very alarming tales during a hearing about counterfeit parts making their way into brand new U.S. military weapons.
Earlier this year, Boeing and the Navy found that the ice detection system on a brand new P-8 Poseidon was defective. The ice detection system is a critical piece of hardware designed to prevent tragedies by alerting pilots to the presence of ice on an aircraft’s control surfaces. Where did this defective part come from? China. A whole batch of a key piece of the ice detection hardware that was sent to the P-8 production line turned out to be used and worn out parts that were badly refurbished and sold to P-8 subcontractor BAE Systems as a new part, according to Levin. Boeing and BAE first became aware of the problem in 2009, he added.
The fake P-8 parts are just one of many examples of how counterfeit parts — often made from 1980s and 1990s-vintage junk computer parts that are sanded down and remarked in China and then sold back to the U.S. as brand new computer chips for advanced weapons systems. One witness at the hearing just described growing counterfiet semiconductors seeping into critical weapons systems as “ticking time bombs.”
A new Boeing Co. (BA:US) surveillance aircraft deployed to Japan last month isn’t yet effective at hunting submarines or performing reconnaissance over large areas -- two of its main missions, the Pentagon’s weapons tester found.
Flaws in the $35 billion program included the plane’s radar performance, sensor integration and data transfer, Michael Gilmore, chief of the Pentagon testing office, wrote in his annual report on major weapons, which has yet to be released. He said the new P-8A Poseidon exhibited “all of the major deficiencies” identified in earlier exercises when subjected to more stressful realistic combat testing from September 2012 to March 2013.
“Many of these deficiencies” led Gilmore to determine that the P-8A “is not effective for the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance mission and is not effective for wide area anti-submarine search,” he said in a section of the report obtained by Bloomberg News. The Navy plans to conduct additional testing “to verify the correction of some deficiencies,” he wrote.
Gilmore’s conclusions suggest the initial aircraft in the program -- which packs a modified Boeing 737-800 with radar and sensors -- aren’t ready for deployment. Among its primary missions is tracking Chinese submarines. Six of the planes have been deployed to Japan supporting 7th Fleet maritime patrol operations at Naval Air Facility Atsugi as part of the U.S. strategic pivot to the Asia-Pacific region.
Vice Admiral Robert Thomas, commander of the 7th Fleet, said in a Jan. 10 press release that the aircraft “represents a significant improvement” over the older P-3 Orion from Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT:US), “providing the opportunity to detect, track and report on more targets than ever before.”
Chicago-based Boeing last month delivered the 13th of what’s to be a 113-aircraft program. The Navy in November declared the aircraft ready for combat deployment after determining the criteria for performing effective patrols “were fully met,” Lieutenant Caroline Hutcheson, a Navy spokeswoman, said in a telephone interview.
“The P-8A was ready, was needed in theater and continues to more than meet fleet commanders’ expectations,” she said. Hutcheson said Gilmore’s office has “consistently highlighted both effective warfare areas as well as recommendations for areas to re-visit.”
“Most issues cited have been collectively identified,” and the Navy has developed “software upgrades to correct deficiencies,” she said.
Boeing spokesman Charles Ramey said in an e-mailed statement that he hadn’t seen Gilmore’s report and was unable to comment directly.
“Feedback we’ve received to date is that the Navy is very happy with the P-8A’s performance,” he said. “As always, Boeing will work hand in hand with the Navy to support any issues that come up.”
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, during a trip to Japan in October, lauded the P-8A’s “cutting-edge technologies.”
Gilmore spokeswoman Jennifer Elzea said the test office concluded the aircraft was effective in providing small-area searches similar to the P-3C Orion it’s replacing.
The aircraft also is effective in conducting “unarmed anti-surface warfare missions,” and its radar and supporting sensors “provide an effective, all-weather surface target search,” she said in an e-mailed statement.
Gilmore’s office also concluded the airframe is reliable, offering “significant improvements in hardware reliability, maintainability and availability” over the P-3C, she said. Overall, the Boeing system “provides increased range, payload and speed,” she said.
Gilmore’s report said the recent realistic combat testing confirmed earlier results on flaws in the P-8’s radar “and revealed the operational implications of the radar’s limitations for some targets.” It said details are classified. Raytheon Co. makes the ocean and land-surveillance radar.
Deficiencies with on-board electronics to detect enemy anti-aircraft radar “limited threat detection” while “seriously degrading capabilities and aircraft survivability across all major missions,” the report found. Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC:US) makes the “Electronic Support Measures” equipment.
Elzea said the Navy is conducting additional testing “to evaluate several system technical improvements” that will be assessed by Gilmore’s office “as they are delivered.”
The Navy has plans for fielding two sets of aircraft upgrades to “improve anti-submarine warfare capability over several years” and has developed “an adequate test and evaluation master plan” to evaluate improvements, she said.
To contact the reporter on this story: Tony Capaccio in Washington at email@example.com
To contact the editor responsible for this story: John Walcott at firstname.lastname@example.org
seruriermarshal said:Boeing Receives $2.4 Billion Contract for 16 P-8A Poseidon Aircraft
US Navy orders 1st full-rate production lot
SEATTLE, Feb. 26, 2014 -- Boeing's [NYSE: BA] P-8A Poseidon program will enter full production, following a $2.4 billion contract award from the U.S. Navy for 16 additional aircraft that will bolster maritime patrol capabilities.
The order, which will take the total fleet to 53, marks a transition from preliminary low-rate production.
Boeing has delivered 13 P-8As to the Navy, which deployed its first patrol squadron to Kadena, Japan in December 2013 and has been conducting operational missions since then.
"This milestone is a testament to the incredible effort and dedication of the team to deliver the P-8A to the fleet as planned," Navy P-8A program manager Capt. Scott Dillon said. "The future of the Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance community has begun to make history with the P-8As already delivered to the fleet. These full-rate production aircraft will give us the opportunity to deliver the best system through a cost-effective procurement contract."
Based on Boeing's Next-Generation 737-800 commercial airplane, the P-8A will enhance the service's anti-submarine, anti-surface warfare and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities. Overall, the Navy plans to purchase 117 P-8As to replace its P-3 fleet.
"This contract reflects the success of the program and enables us to continue delivering an advanced, cost-effective maritime patrol aircraft to the Navy," added Rick Heerdt, Boeing vice president and P-8 program manager. "We delivered eight P-8s, all on or ahead of schedule in 2013, and we intend to keep that streak going in 2014."
Boeing assembles the P-8A aircraft in the same facility where it builds all its 737 aircraft. The Poseidon team uses a first-in-industry in-line production process that draws on Boeing's Next-Generation 737 system and has resulted in cost and schedule savings.
Boeing's industry team includes CFM International, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Spirit AeroSystems, BAE Systems and GE Aviation.
That's OK, I watched the crawl on one of the cable news networks explain that the P-8 spy plane was the replacement for the P-3 spy plane... at least they're consistent!Triton said:Funny how these headlines and articles characterize the P-8 Poseidon as a "spy plane."
In fairness, the only P-3 that's really penetrated into the public consciousness is the EP-3 Aries brought down in China a few years ago.F-14D said:That's OK, I watched the crawl on one of the cable news networks explain that the P-8 spy plane was the replacement for the P-3 spy plane... at least they're consistent!Triton said:Funny how these headlines and articles characterize the P-8 Poseidon as a "spy plane."
FY15 buy cuts this in halfTriton said:"UPDATE 1-Boeing wins $2.1 billion contract for 16 more P-8 spy planes"
Madurai said:In fairness, the only P-3 that's really penetrated into the public consciousness is the EP-3 Aries brought down in China a few years ago.
Most likely post 2020 if they go with it, i suspect they will do a requirement in the 2015 SDSR and probably come up with a mixed solution like Australia with a force of P-8 and Global Hawks or similar UAVFighterJock said:So when will the RAF be getting some to replace the much missed Nimrod?